As anyone who has tried to obtain AMR motors over the last several years can attest to, they were out of production for a few years (we actually just received our first Cascadia branded motors about a week ago). So we went with the Phi-Power motor, which so far is working great.Various online articles (including that one) list a dual-core Phi-Power motor, which would presumably a stack of two Ph382 motors... which seems like a strange choice for a conversion by a company which offers BorgWarner HVH motors (AMR version), especially since Webasto's E-Mobility product line (which is just heating-related spinoffs of their main line of diesel heaters, plus batteries and charging stations) doesn't include Phi-Power products or any brand of motor.
The Webasto battery product is built in Germany with Samsung SDI cells. I wonder if this car is built with a Webasto battery?
Overall, the project is like the Camaro eCOPO, promoting the brand with a electric conversion having nothing to do with any design intended for production; they're even both using 800 volt systems.
GM: eCOPO Camaro Race Car Concept Electrifies Drag Racing
DIYElectricCar: eCOPO Camaro: Factory conversion
That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is a website offering a series of motors which have not been available for years. And people wonder why I am sceptical about stuff offered online...As anyone who has tried to obtain AMR motors over the last several years can attest to, they were out of production for a few years (we actually just received our first Cascadia branded motors about a week ago).
So the vehicle which Webasto had built to promote their line of EV components actually has none of their EV components in it. That's either hilarious, or a very sad commentary on the stupidity of our marketing-driven world.This car did not use the Webasto battery; we did a custom EVDrive battery for it.
The AMR motors? Like I said, they are now available again which is why we have them on our website.That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is a website offering a series of motors which have not been available for years.
I'm confused. If the first of these motors were received a few weeks ago, and were not available for the build which was announced yesterday, why were they on the EV Drive website in April, and in a random archived versions that I checked from 2016, 2017, and 2018? I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that they were always on the EV Drive website (with a 6-8 week delivery time quoted), even when they were not available because they were not even in production. Sorry if I misunderstood something.The AMR motors? Like I said, they are now available again which is why we have them on our website.
So the vehicle which Webasto had built to promote their line of EV components actually has none of their EV components in it. That's either hilarious, or a very sad commentary on the stupidity of our marketing-driven world.
It's a long story that I'm not going to share. Suffice it to say that both of our companies have gone through changes in the past 4 years, and that plans don't always stay constant during such events.I'm confused. If the first of these motors were received a few weeks ago, and were not available for the build which was announced yesterday, why were they on the EV Drive website in April, and in a random archived versions that I checked from 2016, 2017, and 2018? I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that they were always on the EV Drive website (with a 6-8 week delivery time quoted), even when they were not available because they were not even n production. Sorry if I misunderstood something.
Here is an answer I gave on another forum, cause a lot of people are asking just thatHi Hollie Maea
Maybe you can answer this
Why in the name of the wee hairy one is this project using a six speed gearbox?????
I respect that position, and understand the commercial need to present it, but seriously... Webasto could have stuck their name on a stock Tesla and shown that - it would have had as much relevance to their products and capabilities, since they used none of their products or capabilities on this vehicle.I probably wouldn't be so harsh. It was their idea and they paid for it, and they do have legitimate EV tech that they are using this to get visibility for. It seems like they are putting real effort into getting into the EV space, even if their production batteries might not be capable of powering a 900 hp supercar.
Companies routinely use other companies' products for testing. For an example, GM used a Porsche PDK transaxle in a test mule for the C8 Corvette, because they didn't have their own of the right format and their supplier hadn't built one for them yet. To me, that's something you do behind the scenes, not something that you present to the public as your own work.And they will be using this as a testbed for some of their production products.
Yeah, I've kinda gotten used to the way these things go. We usually get even less credit and a lot of the time the companies will explicitly say "We built this".I respect that position, and understand the commercial need to present it, but seriously... Webasto could have stuck their name on a stock Tesla and shown that - it would have had as much relevance to their products and capabilities, since they used none of their products or capabilities on this vehicle.
This makes complete sense to me, although I would say "excessively expensive to develop for a single show car" rather than "hard to develop". It made sense to Tesla, who attempted (unsuccessfully for some reason) to use a 2-speed in their original Roadster. It makes sense to Rimac and Porsche, who put 2-speed transmissions (one per motor) in the rear (only) of the Concept 1 and Taycan. It makes sense to the whole industry, which is why most companies offering transmissions to OEMs for electric applications offer a 2-speed variant... to OEMs in quantity.We kept the manual transmission for three reasons:
1. The width of the torque band in a typical AC motor is worth about three gears in an ICE. So, you can definitely get away with just one gear. But it's a compromise--even for Tesla, which has a "low" top speed for how much power it has. We want to be able to hit 200mph with this car and you couldn't do that with a single speed without giving up too much acceleration. Two gears is about perfect for an EV, but there aren't any decent 2 speed gearboxes on the market and they'd be hard to develop.
Again, as a driving and technology enthusiast this makes sense to me. It made sense to Brammo (later part of the Victory division of Polaris, now abandoned) which chose a traditional multi-speed transmission for their Empulse motorcycle.2. A lot of people enjoy going through the gears. An electric is already a pretty out there concept for the typical Mustang fan, and having gears helps with that. I just got back from SEMA, where the car was revealed, and I got that feedback a LOT.
Just like point 1, this is all about availability. A single-speed is easy to build, if you build gearboxes. If you don't build gearboxes, any gearbox is hard to build.3. Coming up with a single gear reduction is actually a lot harder than using an existing 6 speed. The differential by itself is not enough reduction, so you need something more. And the existing offerings, such as the Borg Warner eGearDrive, can't handle 1000 ft-lbs of torque.
That would be a reason to use an aftermarket gear set, if the vehicle were really intended to be driven. Maybe that can be part of the car's further development; while it's a little puzzling that the Getrag MT82 was used instead of the Tremec TR-3160 (used in the most powerful production Mustangs), there should be alternate ratios available for both. I don't think that either is rated for anything close to 1,000 lb-ft in stock form, so some racing bits might be appropriate.I will add that, although it has six speeds, you'll never use them all. First is completely unusable. Second is good for converting tires to smoke. Third fourth and fifth are all a lot of fun. I don't know for certain yet, but I doubt sixth will ever be used...I think you would run out of power before you ran out of RPM in 5th. Like I said, if there were a good 2 speed we'd use it.
Yeah, I've kinda gotten used to the way these things go. We usually get even less credit and a lot of the time the companies will explicitly say "We built this".
There was one company for which we did the entire drive system, they didn't finish their part, they got up on a stage and told everyone that they had built a fully functional vehicle, and used that to raise 10 billion dollars.
So this was way better than that.
I read the comments on this essentially random article:I definitely saw a pretty negative reaction from some other places on the web regarding the manual trans...
They don't use a clutch (input shafts are female splined to directly mate with male splined motor shafts), and appear to use the VCU to coordinate the motor and the transmission shift actuators. This wouldn't be the same as a manual, since there is no mechanical shift linkage to connect to a manual shifter. Their target market is medium-duty to heavy trucks, not sports cars, but the technology for rational multi-speed transmissions for electric cars is not a problem... just getting one suitable unit for a project is.This transmission is specifically designed to be integrated with and controlled by a VCU (vehicle control unit). This AMT is not intended to be manually shifted or manually commanded to shift without the aid of a VCU.