[Frankencar]

Okay, I've been poking around these forums off and on and haven't really been a big player, but I'm finally getting off the ground and I really need your help.

First let me tell you about my conversion plan. I've got my donor car, it's a 1986 Mazda RX (by the way, if you want to do an RX7 conversion DON'T get an '86-88, they're impossible to find parts for) and it's very pretty. So far my team and I have stripped that beast down to it's bare nakedness.

I'm going to be using an ADC FB1-4001 144V DC motor, and Curtis Controller. I will also be using (drumroll please) CNT Batteries which will hopefully give me some substantial range. I dare not share my extremely rough estimates, but it looks promising. Please don't give me grief about this if you think it's a bad idea. I know it's brand new, but someone's gotta check it out, right? For those who don't know, CNT lead acid batteries are supposed to offer range up to 400 miles/charge (which I think takes about 20 batteries - more than I'll need) and recharge in 5-45 minutes (depending on if you use a 110 or a 220 outlet and also varies from what website you're looking at. Presumably, the technology will have some variety in batteries available).

On to why I need your help. For one, I'm a technical ninny...well not incompetent, but compared to some of you EVeterans and electrical engineers prowling the forums, and I need that knowledge.

Secondly, after diving headlong into this whole process, I lost my job thanks to this wonderful economy we've got in the US. So I know this is going to sound selfish, but I'm doing a sort of fund-raiser. Please hear me out. I hesitated in putting this on the forums for fear of shunning, but ultimately I decided this is a great community and hopefully some of you can help me out.

I'm using a website called Kickstarter, which is a site designed to fund creative projects. So how my conversion fits into that is the website, www.frankencar.org, where I'll be posting videos and blogging about the conversion as it happens. Also, once the conversion is done, I'll be creating a conversion manual using my experience. I hope to make this a valuable companion to existing conversion books by including an exact parts list and wiring diagrams that I used (and once they work of course) so that others can easily copy them without having to do the mountains of research and application of knowledge that I found myself going through.

Check out my kickstarter page here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1583156960/frankencar-200-mile-charge-electric-car

If funding is successful, then anyone who donated will get an electronic copy of the book when it is finished. I know it probably won't be of much use to most of you on the forum, but you could give it to a friend or someone who wants to do a conversion and doesn't share your expertise. More than that though, you'll help make this a truly community project, which was the whole vision of starting frankencar.org.

The good news is you only need $1 to donate, and if the project isn't fully funded by a set date (in this case April 3), then you don't pay a thing. All I ask is you give just one dollar and help encourage anyone you can to do the same (and have them encourage others and so forth). I'd much rather have lots of one dollar donations than a few larger ones. I really hope I'm not overstepping my boundaries in putting this request on the forums here, and I really do hope to contribute something of value with my conversion. But frankly I'm broke so I'm reaching out to the community for help. Thanks, and watch for videos up on www.frankencar.org.

 

[EV-Eric]

Okay, I've been poking around these forums off and on and haven't really been a big player, but I'm finally getting off the ground and I really need your help.

Could you elaborate on the help you,re lookin for?

recharge in 5-45 minutes (depending on if you use a 110 or a 220 outlet and also varies from what website you're looking at.

I'm sure you will not be able to charge any battery in 45 minutes that will travel 200 miles ,presuming it's at a house from a standard 220v AC service.

 

[madderscience]

Not sure what a CNT battery is either. If they are lead acid chemistry then to get that kind of range would require something pretty revolutionary. The only "player" in advanced battery technology I know of that is/was trying to improve on LA was firefly and I haven't heard much noise from them in a while.

 

[Frankencar]

Could you elaborate on the help you,re lookin for?



I'm sure you will not be able to charge any battery in 45 minutes that will travel 200 miles ,presuming it's at a house from a standard 220v AC service.

Yes I foolishly forgot to put a link to my kickstarter page (now fixed) so check it out here:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1583156960/frankencar-200-mile-charge-electric-car

Besides that, I just mean the general support this forum continues to offer, which has been great so far. As I have more questions, I'll continue to post them here in this ridiculously awesome community.

As for charging the battery in 45 minutes, don't give me a hard time for what the company is claiming. Like I said, I'm no tech genius, but it does sound like it's worth checking out.

 

[Frankencar]

Not sure what a CNT battery is either. If they are lead acid chemistry then to get that kind of range would require something pretty revolutionary. The only "player" in advanced battery technology I know of that is/was trying to improve on LA was firefly and I haven't heard much noise from them in a while.

CNT= Carbon Nano Tube. Essentially, they are applying a layer of carbon nanotubes to the anode and cathode of a lead acid battery, which dramatically increases surface area. So the storage capacity goes way up. The idea has actually been around for awhile, but Micro Bubble Technology came up with an inexpensive way to produce carbon nanotubes, which are generally very expensive. So for my money, that is pretty revolutionary.

I'm also somewhat familiar with Firefly Energy's Oasis battery, which works on the same principle of increasing surface area, but to a lesser degree than the CNT.

Just do some googling of CNT and the Current, and you'll find some interesting stuff.

 

[Duncan]

Hi Frankencar

Not to be wet blanket but you need to do some maths
Your Mazda will need between 200 and 400 watt hours per mile
Use 200 watt hours and 400 miles and you get 80000 watt hours, 80 Kwhrs

to charge that in 45 minutes is 107 Kw, 80 Kwhrs / (45 / 60) (minutes in hour)

at 220 volts that is 486 amps!!

need damn thick wires!



Nothing here about the battery chemistry - just simple physics

look again at the battery site and do some simple calculations

 

[Frankencar]

Well I do not see anywhere to go buy a few of these puppies. I'd go buy 16 of these puppies right now if the claim is correct. Where O where have the nono bots gone. Until I can go plunk down my hard earned cash they are in the same realm of firefly.

Sorry but the truth is that they are not on the market. Until then ...........................

Pete

Not to worry, I'm well aware that they are not yet on the market but I am following their development closely. Independent testing results are to be released at the end of January, and several distributor agreements are being hammered out at the same time. Again, I understand that there is some funky math involved in their claims but I'm still going to follow it and there's nothing you can do to stop me Again, it's not my claims so go hassle Ecolocap about it, not me.

 

[EV-propulsion.com]

i wouldn't get my hopes up too high, this is one of the most controversial subjects out there, read http://theeestory.com/topics/3997

They also claim a fuel additive that increases gas mileage by 80% or something like that. Their stock shares sell for 38 cents, not too many investors beleive in it......

 

[Frankencar]

I just don't think its prudent to tout something that does not exist. If they were available and you were looking for sponsors then that is another story but to tout what does not exist is not too prudent. The folks will see you as.................
And that is not what you want if you want sponsors to help you build.


Pete

I understand what you mean. I don't mean to be pushing something that's not out yet, simply drawing attention to a potential new technology. Look at it not as trying to push for the next greatest thing but rather for a practical trial run. Of course I recognize the possibility that this could fail fantastically. But if everyone were so skeptical, then a potentially amazing technology would just go unnoticed, and fade into history.

Anyone read Wired magazine? Take Thorium, which is a much better fuel for nuclear reactors (look it up). Even though thorium is a much better and widely available fuel for nuclear energy, we used Uranium. Why? Because the plutonium created as a byproduct can be used for weapons. As such, Thorium development as a power fuel was utterly abandoned in 1978. Now imagine if CNT's are actually as amazing as they claim (just imagine, don't get all math on me). Now just because the claims are too bold, and even more so, because major companies have spent billions on Li-Ion research, nobody is even considering using CNT-LA's. And so an incredible tech gets swept under the rug and forgotten. That is, until we run out of lithium.

I'm not saying that it's all they make it out to be. I'm not saying that it's bound for technological doomsday. I'm saying let's give it a go. If it fails, it fails, and if you sponsored my build, then you're only out a few bucks or less (and the time it took to send an email if you're really nice). So I don't think there's a lot at stake. If they fail, I'll put some lesser batteries in and I'll still have a running EV. But if they work...well I think it's worth finding out.

 

[PhantomPholly]

Just to put new battery development in perspective, the aviation world has been pumped up about "new engine technologies" ever since Wilbur and Orville.

One such promising technology appeared almost 40 years ago. A company in Germany called Zoche promised a 2-cycle diesel radial engine with terrific power to weight ratios and low fuel burn "within a few years." Still not here yet.

On the experimental battery front, I was never quite a believer but I was cautiously optimistic about EEStor. And who knows, someday they may actually deliver...

 

[Duxuk]

Good luck Frankencar. I have been criticised by a few individuals for my own battery choice. My battery pack is also LA but uses carbon fibre to increase the surface area and add strength. They are not too radical but the claims are impresive and I have taken them at face value. Elecsol, the makers, claim that their 110Ah 12V batteries can be recharged 1000 times from 80% DOD and that "no sulphation" will occur. (So why won't they last for ever?) I have run my trike for 400 yards before global warming made it snow just before Christmas. The ice is still stopping any further testing! If you Google "Elecsol" you might find it interesting. They supplied my 6 batteries directly and customised them with thicker plates to give 62Ah in one hour rather than the usual 47Ah. I only intend to drive my light weight trike for 27 miles in just less than one hour. The batteries weigh 25.2Kg each which is a better energy to weight rario than the usual rivals.

 

[Frankencar]

Good luck Frankencar. I have been criticised by a few individuals for my own battery choice. My battery pack is also LA but uses carbon fibre to increase the surface area and add strength. They are not too radical but the claims are impresive and I have taken them at face value. Elecsol, the makers, claim that their 110Ah 12V batteries can be recharged 1000 times from 80% DOD and that "no sulphation" will occur. (So why won't they last for ever?) I have run my trike for 400 yards before global warming made it snow just before Christmas. The ice is still stopping any further testing! If you Google "Elecsol" you might find it interesting. They supplied my 6 batteries directly and customised them with thicker plates to give 62Ah in one hour rather than the usual 47Ah. I only intend to drive my light weight trike for 27 miles in just less than one hour. The batteries weigh 25.2Kg each which is a better energy to weight rario than the usual rivals.

Sweet, I'll definitely look those up. Nice to hear some encouragement for a change, especially from someone who's not afraid to make a bold decision. Hope those work out for you (darn ice).

 

[Frankencar]

Well if you have these batteries you should be giving reports on how good or bad they are. Don't give some bull about GW or snow or ice or cold or what ever. We all drive in severe weather and if you have them in an electric car then by all means go drive and give a good report or bad report. That is what these forums are about. They are not for vapor ware but for real products to be tested and reported upon. Come on guys if you have some new stuff in your vehicle then all is good. Prove it good or bad. It matters not. It just proves it works or does not work.

No bogus stuff. I do not see much in the way of information about the battery technology on that site. I will research further. I won't hold my breath. You have not been able to provide much information. One charge could net you 400 yards.

Come on, clear out that ice and bundle up and go for some drives. We want to know. You should be very willing to prove or disprove. I am a beta tester too. Give your batteries hell and see how they hold up.

Pete

Wow. Okay, just because you put a smiley at the end of your post doesn't excuse that kind of jack-assery. I honestly expected a lot more positive energy from this community and I've really been disappointed so far. Maybe some of the brilliant people on these forums have an ego to match? First of all, did you notice the word Trike? So maybe the vehicle isn't suited for icy roads. And you don't know just how icy it is either. Yeah we all drive in severe whether, but there's a limit you know, a point where it becomes foolish and dangerous to drive ANY vehicle.

So don't be so impatient with people. Why didn't you just say, "Hey, cool that you're trying some new stuff. Can't wait to see if it works or not. Could you start a new thread and let me know so I can keep track of your reports on the tech? I'd love to see some real evidence of whether it works or not."
Would that have been so much worse? No, you had to make an ass out of yourself.

And since you clearly don't read before you post foolishness, let me say not to bother giving me crap because I DONT HAVE THE BATTERIES and I ALREADY KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT IT. So please, no more negativity on this thread, that's not what this is about, and that's not what this community is about. Come on people, aren't we the ones who should be excited about new technology, hopeful, and optimistic? Aren't we the ones battling pessimists and trying to encourage people to move forward to new, better technologies? Isn't that what EV's are all about?

If you think so, you're welcome to keep posting here. If you're just a nay-sayer, then you should just keep it to yourself.

 

[Duxuk]

I think you may have confused my single post with those of Frankencar there, Gottdi. I don't wish to hijack someone else's post but I promise I will fully report my experiences with Elecsol batteries on this forum. First I need to do an MSVA test to register my trike. Then I can legally drive on the road. This will take me 2 months at least so you will need to be patient. The reports you have picked up on Elecsol are rather old, much progress seems to have been made subsequently. One problem seems to be that people treat carbon fibre bateries as they would other lead acids. If you charge to 14.8v or higher you will cause gassing which will be detrimental to your service life. I know that older Elecsol batteries were prone to sudden inexplicable failure but there are many stories on the web of users still satisfied after more than five years of use. The 5 year garauntee is quite impressive, i think. I was impressed that I got a phone call after I had Emailed a question. Which enabled me to tell them exactly what I was looking for. I was interested in this thread because I saw the parallels between the Elecsol batteries and the CNT technology which Frankencar is hoping for-both use carbon in different forms to increase the plates contact area with the electrolyte. If you were in England right now you'd understand why we are all talking about the weather. Actually, forget that, we never have a conversation here without mentioning the weather, good or bad.

 

[Frankencar]

II don't wish to hijack someone else's post...

Hijack away! I too am looking forward to your results. After all, they could prove to be a nice alternative should the CNTs fall through.

 

[Duxuk]

I am going to start a new thread entitled "Carbon fibre battery technolgy" which some readers of this thread might be intrested in. I'll obviously put it in the batteries section. Hopefully someone will have some experience to relate, though hopefully not that fool from the UK who fried his 220Ah batteries after 18 months and has subsequently sought to rubbish them!

 

[Frankencar]

UPDATE: Ecoloclap Inc has delivered the first batch of CNT LA batteries to the US for independent testing. The results are to be published once available, and then Ecolocap will move forward with marketing/distribution. So we may be only a few months out from having some CNT's in my garage!

Full article: http://www.ecolocap.com/site/en/pre...ounces-first-u-s-delivery-of-cnt-battery.html

 

[PhantomPholly]

UPDATE: Ecoloclap Inc has delivered the first batch of CNT LA batteries to the US for independent testing. The results are to be published once available, and then Ecolocap will move forward with marketing/distribution. So we may be only a few months out from having some CNT's in my garage!

Full article: http://www.ecolocap.com/site/en/pre...ounces-first-u-s-delivery-of-cnt-battery.html

Awesome news! Let's hope this technology turns out to be as good as it sounds!

 

[dtbaker]

sounds like bull to me. I'd want some independent testing in the US before I considered spending a dollar.

 

[PhantomPholly]

Yep, I'd be deeply distrustful that they even consider sales before independent testing.