[Revoltmotorworks]

Hi guys this is Blake, I just wanted to introduce myself and thank everybody who contributes to the wealth of knowledge on this forum and seek advice about this HUGE DC electric motor I want to put into my Chevy Nova.
Pics attached at end of post

The dimensions of this motor are approximately 13.5”x20” and it weighs about 350 or so pounds. The ID tag states it’s 36/48v. It is from a Hyster forklift and has been sitting for quite some time.
For my Nova EV I would like to have about a 50 mile range and be able to cruise at 55mph and be able to take it to the drag strip and have some fun.

I wanted to hear what setups you guys have had succes with as far and Voltage and amperage for a motor like this. I would like to advance the brushes a bit to be able to to safely run a higher voltage for top speed.
I was thinking along the lines of a Zilla 1k for the motor controller and a good size bank of LifePo4 battery’s to keep this beast fed. It’s a Monster motor and I’m really exited to be closer to building a great EV!

 

[alvin]

Welcome to the forum.

I don't have that motor but I do have an 11" GE from a Hyster lift. 250lbs.

It is in a Ford Ranger direct to transmission (no clutch).The pack voltage has been as high as 144 volt nominal. I don't think I have gone over 400 motor amps.

It looks like it may be some extra trouble to connect your motor to the transmission.

 

[Duncan]

Hi
I'm running an 11 inch motor - direct drive to a Subaru diff

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forum...dubious-device-44370p15.html?highlight=duncan

I'm running a Paul & Sabrina Controller - I have it set to 1200 amps and my battery pack is fully charged at 340 V

You have a brake on one end of that motor
My motor had the same splines on each end of the drive shaft
So I used the part that connected to the brake - with a simple disc adapter to bolt onto a normal prop-shaft UJ - works a treat!

 

[Revoltmotorworks]

Thanks for the useful info. It’s good to know you have run it up to 144volts. From what I have read on here is that these motors can take some serious amps, I’m going to go with a 1000 amp peak controller, and slowly experiment with what works for this motor. From what I’ve seen there are controllers that can adjust with voltages ranging from 48-144v for example and that is what I’d like to use.

How does your Ranger accelerate from a stop? Does it have a pretty good pull with 400amps at a certain voltage you run it at? It seems to me that these motors must put out a load of torque at a low rpm. Also how does it run at highway speed? Like at what motor rpm at 55mph and what amperage/voltage does it like at that speed?

 

[Revoltmotorworks]

Hey Duncan thanks for the link! That looks like a great project. That is great to know I can couple a U joint on one of the motor shafts.
Did you get your car going yet? I looks like your setup will put out a load of torque. I want to build a fun cruiser street car with about 50 miles of range and a ton of torque for 1/4mile drag racing for fun.

 

[Duncan]

Hi
I have been driving my "Device" for nearly five years - initially with Headway cells and for the last year and a half with Chevy Volt cells

It's really good for 1/8th mile drags - but I'm hitting 85 mph at the end of 1/8th and I think it will blow up before the end of 1/4 mile

Page 21 of my thread has a link to my YouTube videos

I assume that your Nova is one of the old RWD ones?

That should make a superb cruiser with that motor

BUT

You may be limited in top speed - as you will be limited in motor RPM - I hope Major will speak up and tell us just how fast you can spin that motor

 

[major]

Hi Dunc,

First off, he's got to do something with the Drive End (DE) bearing. Replacing it with a sealed bearing is likely easiest. Use high temp seals and grease.

RPM. Depends on balance. Armature components and construction should be good for 5kRPM. Recommend normal operation to 2500 with max of 4kRPM.

Have that bearing properly installed and balance checked.

Regards,

major

 

[Revoltmotorworks]

Thanks Guys for the advice. Duncan the videos look like you are having a good succes with your build! Car looks fast on the track.

Major I will do the sealed bearing as well. I was wondering is that a requirement to run at 2500-4000rpm continuous operation? The open bearing assembly was designed for lower continued rpm use I take it?

Also the Nova is a 1975 with a stripped out interior and weighs just under 3000lbs. It has a built Chevy 350 in it that will be taken out and stored but it also has a TH350 automatic trans. On the EV west website it shows them using the Powerglide trans for their conversions because it is a stout unit. I know these motors put out much more torque than my TH350 can handle but has anyone had succes with coupling to this trans?

Also do you think that if this motor is coupled to the trans I will be able to use the trans ability to shift gears to keep motor rpm around 2500 rpm while achieving highway speeds? I’d like to use the trans so I can have a higher top speed and reverse. I know direct drive is stronger but what is he general consensus on using a trans? Thanks everybody

 

[major]

In the forklift, the gearbox oil lubed the open DE bearing. There is a shaft seal behind the bearing. When you have a double sealed permanently lubed bearing installed you can eliminate the shaft seal. Less common is a single side sealed bearing. But I doubt they'd rely on that to keep gearbox oil out of the motor.

major

 

[Duncan]

Hi Blake
Transmissions basically go downwards - they make the motor spin faster!

In most (not sure about autos) of the old gearboxes top gear was 1:1 - straight through

Which is what you get if you throw away the trans and go direct drive!

A big advantage of direct drive is that you can put the motor where the gearbox would have gone and leave the whole engine bay for the batteries

 

[piotrsko]

Back in '75 turbo hydro trannies were weak. That may have changed as shown in the racing catalogs. You do need to think about better diff gearing since your ratio is around 2.5:1.

 

[brian_]

Back in '75 turbo hydro trannies were weak. That may have changed as shown in the racing catalogs.

There have been many Turbo Hydramatic transmissions, but the reliability disaster of that era was the THM 200. Fortunately, that's not what Blake has.

 

[brian_]

Transmissions basically go downwards - they make the motor spin faster!

In most (not sure about autos) of the old gearboxes top gear was 1:1 - straight through

Yes, most transmission ratios are reduction gears (output lower than input). Modern transmissions typically have one or more overdrive gears (output faster than input), but a THM 350 (and any Turbo Hydramatic before the the 4-speeds of the early 1980's) has a 1:1 top gear. In these traditional automatics, in this direct gear the power isn't going through any gears at all, but lots of gears used for other ratios are still spinning.

Which is what you get if you throw away the trans and go direct drive!

Yes, but keeping the transmission allows higher motor speed and thus more torque to the wheels at low road speeds. If that reduction gearing is not needed, I agree that a transmission is pointless.

 

[Duncan]

Hi Blake
If piotrsko is right then you probably have a good final drive for that large motor

Your car is about 40% heavier than mine but I suspect that you won't have a 55% rear weight distribution
3000 lbs = 1363 kg - with 40% on the back wheels you will have 545 kg on your back wheels

I have 900 kg (with me in it) - 55% on the back wheels that is 495 kg on the back wheels

My diff is 4.1:1 - yours is 2.5:1 - so I have 60% more torque

BUT you have a larger motor so you will get more torque per amp

I suspect that with 1200 Amps and direct drive you will be able to spin your rear tyres - unless you buy super sticky tyres

I normally drive mine with the 1200 amps reduced to 550 Amps - 1200 amps is just a bit too exciting on the road

Major thinks that I can get to 6000 rpm before my motor explodes - 50% higher than yours
So if you have a 2.5:1 diff which is 64% higher than my 4.1:1 - it about cancels out!

My top speed (before motor blowup) will be about 100 mph - so you should be about the same - bit higher

 

[brian_]

Also do you think that if this motor is coupled to the trans I will be able to use the trans ability to shift gears to keep motor rpm around 2500 rpm while achieving highway speeds? I’d like to use the trans so I can have a higher top speed and reverse.

Cars back then came with a lot of configuration options, and anything could have been done in the past four decades, but the stock tire was something like an FR78-14, which was about the size of a P205/75R14, which is about 26.5" tall and so turns about 800 revolutions per mile. That means at 60 mph the tire and wheel are turning at 800 rpm. although you probably want and have something wider and lower profile than this, such as a 235/60R15, as long as the overall diameter is the same the gearing situation is the same.

A typical final drive ratio for a 350 V8 1975 Nova would be 2.73:1, although apparently there were optional 2.56:1 and 3.08:1 ratios (according to the GM info kit), and again the axle currently in the car could be just about anything. With a 2.73:1 ring and pinion, the propeller shaft (driveshaft) speed with 800 rpm wheel speed would be about 2200 rpm.

You don't need any gearing other than the final drive (so, you don't need a transmission) to get a reasonable motor rotational speed at highway road speed, if you're looking for 2500 rpm at some highway speed.

Reverse is another issue entirely...

 

[brian_]

...
My diff is 4.1:1 - yours is 2.5:1 - so I have 60% more torque

BUT you have a larger motor so you will get more torque per amp

I suspect that with 1200 Amps and direct drive you will be able to spin your rear tyres - unless you buy super sticky tyres

I normally drive mine with the 1200 amps reduced to 550 Amps - 1200 amps is just a bit too exciting on the road

Major thinks that I can get to 6000 rpm before my motor explodes - 50% higher than yours
So if you have a 2.5:1 diff which is 64% higher than my 4.1:1 - it about cancels out!

My top speed (before motor blowup) will be about 100 mph - so you should be about the same - bit higher

All good, except that the cars likely use different tires sizes as well, changing the relationship of motor speed to road speed, and of motor torque to accelerating force.
Note: torque = force * distance, so accelerating force = torque / tire rolling radius

I guessed the Nova as having about 26.5" (673 mm) tall tires.
Duncan, what's on the Device?
Blake, what are your actual tire size and final drive ratio?

 

[Revoltmotorworks]

Hi Guys lots of useful info and I appreciate the input. Attached is a photo.
The car is street rod sleeper with a built up 375hp Chev 350in it that puts out about 400ft lbs of torque.

My rear axle is a GM 10 bolt 8.5in,(there are a few variations of this axle and the one I have is the stronger type) welded 3.08s on 26.5x10 Hossier DOT slicks, it’s setup for a mix between a fun street car that goes to strip but also has enough gear to drive 60mph at reasonable rpm.

I’m also a mechanic so it’s no problem putting in a GM 12 Bolt or Ford 9” if I blow this 10 bolt off the back of the car. The TH350 In it is a pretty stout unit but this Monster motor defiantly has the torque to shear off input shafts, grenade the internals if one cranked up the juice and let it rip.

One of my main goals is to go blow the doors off unsuspecting ICE muscle cars at the track with my ELECTRO NOVA! Would be pretty cool to keep the CG centered and to the rear so it could do wheelies. Anyways gotta dream right?

I like the sound of Direct drive and I’m sure it is the best way to go, I will consider it. How much more complicated is it to setup a reverse for this motor?

 

[Revoltmotorworks]

Also on a side note I just saw that Manzanita micro the makers of Zilla is located right near me. It looks like they have good batteries too. Is there an EV club in the Washington area or some members around who I could buy some parts off of or maybe get some help from? This project is happening one way or another

 

[Duncan]

Hi
Reverse is a bit more complex
You will have four terminals of the motor
Two for the Brushes that go to the armature and two for the field coils

To go backwards you need to reverse one pair! - reversing the whole things means you still go forwrds

To do that you need a reversing contactor - I'm using one off a forklift

To operate that motor at high speeds (the forklift or whatever it came out of would use about 1400rpm) you need to advance the brush timing
Unfortunately that means that the brush timing will be completely wrong in reverse - NOT a problem is you are just reversing
But if you want to blast backwards in an autotest it could be an issue especially as you will have the same power and speed available backwards as forwards

It's great fun being able to burn off the supercharged V8's

 

[Bird of Prey]

I am trying to find one that is a 13"diameter motor or two if I can . Try a 4.50-1 LSD if you can . Or get a locker if you have too . That car can be striped to under 2900 Lbs easy . The best part is you don't need to add metal to your car like the small cars do to keep and or make it stronger .