[Kiwimike]

Hi folks,

I've been doing a lot of reading on here but i'm going to resort to a few questions.

I have with me a GE DC Series wound 6.7" motor.

I haven't actually bought it yet but i've been allowed to evaluate it first. Inside was rough. A bit of surface corrosion due to years of inactivity and it had been wet at some point. I've done the commutator resistance tests and everything is fine, but my concern is this: the armature has seen some repairs and has been repaired with, what i'd call, araldite of some kind. You know, the bi component glue putty stuff not unlike JB weld.

My question is, if treated right, can i expect normal performance and durability??? Or are these obvious signs of abuse and its not worth getting into?

I'd imagine that this is just an effective form of isolation but i'd just like to confirm with folks who have a bit of experience. I'd also like to know if repairs like these are most necessary when the isolation has been physically damaged by stones/debris or most likely to have been heat/amps?? Observations: Motor came from an ATV used on a farm. The 4 brush caps were in place. The 'end cap' (commutator end) was full of crap including little 'stones' of what looks like calcium or lime?! The fsip/curtis controller is missing the middle cap for the 'CA' potentiometer which is responsible for acceleration, so i'd expect that acceleration has been maxed out.

I have seen repairs like these on other motors on here but the subject wasn't addressed directly.

What do you guys think?

Cheers! -Mike

 

[electro wrks]

e armature has seen some repairs and has been repaired with, what i'd call, araldite of some kind. You know, the bi component glue putty stuff not unlike JB weld.

Those are blobs of epoxy putty used to balance the rotor.

 

[electro wrks]

At motor repair shops they'll have a tool called a growler to check for shorts or bad windings. They might test it with a mega ohmmeter. The generally not overheated wine color of the rotor windings is good. Check the stator windings too. Is the rating 11.4 HP ? What are you planing on using this in?

 

[brian_]

Is the rating 11.4 HP ?

I would have guessed that the marking which looks to me like "11/4" was intended to be "1 1/4", or 1.25 HP. Nominal ratings of industrial motors are strange, but that would be very strange for something that uses about 11 kW (228 A * 48 V) at rated conditions and is so large. Either the 228 amp rating is max (rather than at rated speed and voltage), or something is going on that I don't understand (which is a strong possibility )

11.4 HP (8.5 kW) of output from 10.9 kW seems like lousy efficiency even for low-voltage brushed DC motor (78%), but maybe that's right.

Results of a web search for this motor (GE 5BC49JB1134) suggest that it is used in golf carts, and is indeed considered an 11.4 HP @ 48 V motor (and 8 HP @ 36 V), with a 2280 RPM rated operating speed. Of course with higher voltage it could run faster and produce more power.

A typical listing: Club Car Ds Series High Torque Motor
Search on any of these manufacturer and part number combinations from this listing and you'll probably find more information:

Manufacturer & Part Number​

ADVANCED MOTORS GN1-4001​

CLUB CAR​

FOREPAR 6-223D​

GE D395​

GE 5BC49JB1134​

​

It is small compared to the low-voltage brushed series-wound DC motors commonly used in conversions. At 2280 RPM supplied with 48 V and using 228 A it would produce only 26 lb-ft or 36 Nm of torque. Like electro wrks, I wonder about the size and type of vehicle for which this might be intended, if it is usable.

I have no useful insight regarding the condition.

 

[Kiwimike]

Those are blobs of epoxy putty used to balance the rotor.

Seriously?!!! Not doubting you here, just that the putty doesnt strike me as very technical or precise!! BUT, i went and looked up the dynamic balancing process for electric motors to educate myself a bit. Definitely seems to be the most plausible explanation. Glad its nothing to worry about.

 

[Kiwimike]

At motor repair shops they'll have a tool called a growler to check for shorts or bad windings. They might test it with a mega ohmmeter. The generally not overheated wine color of the rotor windings is good. Check the stator windings too. Is the rating 11.4 HP ? What are you planing on using this in?

Thanks for the observation.... yes it is 11.4 HP. The plan is to put it in a vw bug just for getting around a little town - short distances, generally flat, and no realistic expectation to go sustainably faster than 50-60 km/h (~35 mph).

 

[Kiwimike]

I would have guessed that the marking which looks to me like "11/4" was intended to be "1 1/4", or 1.25 HP. Nominal ratings of industrial motors are strange, but that would be very strange for something that uses about 11 kW (228 A * 48 V) at rated conditions and is so large. Either the 228 amp rating is max (rather than at rated speed and voltage), or something is going on that I don't understand (which is a strong possibility )

11.4 HP (8.5 kW) of output from 10.9 kW seems like lousy efficiency even for low-voltage brushed DC motor (78%), but maybe that's right.

Results of a web search for this motor (GE 5BC49JB1134) suggest that it is used in golf carts, and is indeed considered an 11.4 HP @ 48 V motor (and 8 HP @ 36 V), with a 2280 RPM rated operating speed. Of course with higher voltage it could run faster and produce more power.

A typical listing: Club Car Ds Series High Torque Motor
Search on any of these manufacturer and part number combinations from this listing and you'll probably find more information:

Manufacturer & Part Number​

ADVANCED MOTORS GN1-4001​

CLUB CAR​

FOREPAR 6-223D​

GE D395​

GE 5BC49JB1134​

​

It is small compared to the low-voltage brushed series-wound DC motors commonly used in conversions. At 2280 RPM supplied with 48 V and using 228 A it would produce only 26 lb-ft or 36 Nm of torque. Like electro wrks, I wonder about the size and type of vehicle for which this might be intended, if it is usable.

I have no useful insight regarding the condition.

Hi Brian, theres a slight scratch on the label but it is indeed 11.4 HP, but your right, theres something strange here... 10.9kW should be over 14HP, so i don't know whats going on there?! But a fully charged golf cart battery pack will be around 60v so i'm not too worried.

Did you know that google search returns results 'tailored' to your profile?? I knew this motor was from a club car and i searched for an age and had very little to show for it, probably because google tries to push sites in portuguese upon my location (i'm in Brazil). I couldn't even find any detailed specs or what actual club car model its from... i even searched on golf cart forums so i'm a bit baffled. Anyways, thanks for including those parts numbers.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Kiwimike]

Oh, and Brian, how did you get those torque values?? Because i plugged the numbers on the motors label into a formula and got 45.7Nm @ 48v?????

 

[electro wrks]

What is the length of the steel body of the motor? This appears to be a souped-up golf cart motor. The 5 minute time rating is an indication it is really only designed to impress and terrorize your fellow golfers with short bursts of speed in a golf cart, between shots on the links! These motors are usually rated for 2-3 HP on a continuous basis. If you want more HP than this, and are in a hot climate, you'll need some auxiliary cooling and have to keep a close watch on the motor temperature. This motor will probably be too small for your application.

 

[Kiwimike]

What is the length of the steel body of the motor? This appears to be a souped-up golf cart motor. The 5 minute time rating is an indication it is really only designed to impress and terrorize your fellow golfers with short bursts of speed in a golf cart, between shots on the links! These motors are usually rated for 2-3 HP on a continuous basis. If you want more HP than this, and are in a hot climate, you'll need some auxiliary cooling and have to keep a close watch on the motor temperature. This motor will probably be too small for your application.

Thanks eletro wrks. Yeah i´m fully aware its on the small side. I don´t have many options unfortunately. Others with smallish dc series motors in vw bugs are pulling around 160amps while cruising at 35mph so i´m hoping it´ll be ok but theres only one way to find out. I will definitely have to keep an eye on the temps and it´ll definitely be used with a blower.

Cheers

 

[Kiwimike]

I also realise that that figure of 160amps are with more adequate dc motors than the one i have here.

 

[Kiwimike]

What is the length of the steel body of the motor?

Oh and the length of the steel section is just shy of 7 1/2 inches. It comes paired with a 500amp (peak i'm guessing) controller. Are you politely telling me to not bother?! I am concerned by its time rating, actually i've been trying to learn what it actually means in terms of its construction. Its all about the motors ability to dissipate heat isn't it? Anything i can do, other than a blower, to help this situation.

My general idea is to get the bug working as a proof of concept (read proof to the wife its feasible) and then look to swap the motor. Thing is, over here even a forklift motor is hard to come by and not cheap. Electric versions are rarely used and because of the expense of new equipment its almost always most feasible, economically, to just keep repairing them. But i'm sure something will come up one day.

Cheers!

 

[electro wrks]

This motor's body appears to be just slightly longer than the typical GC motor of the ones I have in my shop(6 1/4" to 6 3/4" long) Do you have a shot of the brushes/ commutator? These might be larger or pairs of brushes for larger current capacity. Usually what happens when people use too small of a motor, is that it seems initially to have plenty of power and works fine. And, they tell the doubters that they are full of crap. Some electric motors have the deceptive ability to handle overloads for a short period of time.
Then in time, the too small motor people keep pushing the output of the motor, and keep pushing it until the brushes and commutator disintegrate into a ball of sparks and molten copper and about the same time the windings cook off all of their insulation in a stinky, smokey mess. And then they use a bigger motor.

Does this answer your question? You're going to go to a lot of work and expense to adapt this motor to your vehicle. You should consider using a larger motor. Are there many golf carts used in your area? If so, maybe you could talk to someone that uses and works on them about how the motors work out.

 

[brian_]

Oh, and Brian, how did you get those torque values?? Because i plugged the numbers on the motors label into a formula and got 45.7Nm @ 48v?????

I just plugged the claimed output power (11.4 HP) and speed (2280 RPM) into an online calculator, but it just applies the same formula. If you plug in 10.944 kW (48 V * 228 A) @ 2280 RPM you get 45.83 Nm, but that would assume perfect efficiency rather than the actual motor efficiency.

 

[brian_]

What is the length of the steel body of the motor? This appears to be a souped-up golf cart motor.

This appears to be a stock, but relatively high-performance, golf cart motor. It think it is reasonable to assume that no one will run it at continuous high power on a golf course, and it does seem likely that continuous power will be much lower.

 

[Kiwimike]

This motor's body appears to be just slightly longer than the typical GC motor of the ones I have in my shop(6 1/4" to 6 3/4" long) Do you have a shot of the brushes/ commutator? These might be larger or pairs of brushes for larger current capacity. Usually what happens when people use too small of a motor, is that it seems initially to have plenty of power and works fine. And, they tell the doubters that they are full of crap. Some electric motors have the deceptive ability to handle overloads for a short period of time.
Then in time, the too small motor people keep pushing the output of the motor, and keep pushing it until the brushes and commutator disintegrate into a ball of sparks and molten copper and about the same time the windings cook off all of their insulation in a stinky, smokey mess. And then they use a bigger motor.

Does this answer your question? You're going to go to a lot of work and expense to adapt this motor to your vehicle. You should consider using a larger motor. Are there many golf carts used in your area? If so, maybe you could talk to someone that uses and works on them about how the motors work out.

Great description! lol. Golf carts are rarer than electric forklifts in my region. Come to think of it, i have never seen a golf course over here, certainly not where i am which is biologically a savannah, which means more than 6 months a year gets 0 rainfall. Not good for grass i guess.

I'll take some pics for you.

The motor came out of some sort of ATV-ish 4 seater club car model i'm led to believe. Some rich guy imported it from the US to show people around his farm, but apparently didn't like the range capabilities as he ordered they put a motorbike engine in it.

 

[Kiwimike]

I just plugged the claimed output power (11.4 HP) and speed (2280 RPM) into an online calculator, but it just applies the same formula. If you plug in 10.944 kW (48 V * 228 A) @ 2280 RPM you get 45.83 Nm, but that would assume perfect efficiency rather than the actual motor efficiency.

Ahh ok, i got ya now. Cheers.

 

[Kiwimike]

The Brushes have K254 written on them and measure 1 1/4" x 1/2", disregarding its length.

 

[electro wrks]

Your brushes and commutator are larger than the ones on the motors I have. But still, I would consider this motor just adequate for powering some of the small riding mowers I'm working on, not a VW bug.

 

[Kiwimike]

Running it with more volts reduce

Your brushes and commutator are larger than the ones on the motors I have. But still, I would consider this motor just adequate for powering some of the small riding mowers I'm working on, not a VW bug.

OK, understood electro wrks. I will look for an alternative.

Bro, I understand its not a great idea without bearings on both ends, but i just wanted to now if this motor at least will spin. I put it back together after cleaning it up, brushes aren't hung up. With the motor standing up i put 12v to it. All i get are sparks and a bit of noise (clunk). I've seen others test GC motors quickly like this without problems. Why do you suppose it wont turn at all?

I have wired the field and armature in series. It's quite hard to turn by hand with no power applied.

Cheers.