In other words I think 158kWh is a non-starter.Type II Bay Window
From a 1978 owners manual:
Unladen -- Sta. Wagon = 3042 lb., Camper = 3296 lb.
Payload -- Sta. Wagon = 1918 lb., Camper = 1665 lb.
GVWR -- Sta. Wagon = 4960 lb., Camper = 4951 lb.
Max front axle -- Sta. wagon & Camper = 2227 lb.
Max rear axle -- Sta. wagon & Camper = 2800 lb.
Max roof weight w/ VW rack -- Sta. Wagon = 220 lb., Camper = 110 lb.
Max. tow weight -- w/o trailer brakes = 1322 lb., w/ trailer brakes = 2645 lb., w/ Automatic Transmission w/ or w/o brakes = 1322 lb.
Max tongue weight -- All models 110 lbs.
Ok thanks! Could you elaborate on why the ah estimate could be reduced?Parallel adds to Ah
Cells add to Wh
Continuous discharge on most cells I've seen is beyond 1C, so your Ah estimates should be able to be reduced.
Yeah… and the newer models are a bit heavier from what I’ve seen. Kind of a bummer. I’ll look into increasing the payload capacity but seems that I will have to settle for lower range for the time being.I use Nissan Leaf 24kWh pack at 440lb as a unit of measure to guesstimate these things. The main thing to point out is the weight - 158.4kWh / 24kWh = 6.6. Multiply that by 440...2904lb. In reality it would be a bit lighter, but not by more than 10%. So easily 2600lb battery pack. Found some relevant numbers from googling :
In other words I think 158kWh is a non-starter.
22.8 V would be a module, not a single cell; presumably it has six cell groups in series. What LG Chem module is this?... with the lg chem cells at 232ah and 22.8v I would need something like 6s5p.
A 23,000 pound battery for only 128 kWh is wildly unreasonable. Did you mean 2,300 pounds? The battery weight is still a problem for a long-range conversion.If I use the bolt range numbers I come out to a pack that need to be 128kwh to get 200 miles of range. I will still have to dial that back since that would mean a battery weight of close to 23k lbs.
Ha yep. I fat fingered the number. And yeah. Gotta get the weight down.A 23,000 pound battery for only 128 kWh is wildly unreasonable. Did you mean 2,300 pounds? The battery weight is still a problem for a long-range conversion.
Yeah sorry I meant module. It’s the lg module on ev west.22.8 V would be a module, not a single cell; presumably it has six cell groups in series. What LG Chem module is this?
Paralleling modules is problematic; it would be better to use modules with more cell capacity in parallel and fewer cell groups in series. No matter what module is found, getting this extreme capacity with such a low voltage will mean a complex pack.
There have been many LG modules, and EV West has sold a lot of a different module (the one intended for the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid, which is no longer available). So it's presumably this one:Yeah sorry I meant module. It’s the lg module on ev west.
It is 7S, so about 26 V nominal not 22.6 V. It has 63 Ah capacity, not 232 Ah.I had not heard of a "JH3" cell or module, so I did a quick search...
An LG Chem catalog suggests that JH3 is the "Energy" (rather than "High Energy" or "Power") variant in their range of cells for large energy storage systems. It may not be intended for use in a vehicle, as it is intended for discharge rates under 1C. Based on this catalog, the 7S 63 Ah JH3 module appears to be one of two used in LG Chem's smallest residential energy storage system, the "48 V" RESU3.3. The other RESU models may use more of the same modules in parallel. The catalog shows that stationary ESS and automotive applications are distinct.
Whether this is the same cell construction as used in EVs or not, the JH3 modules being sold by EV West at 3.22 Wh/USD (or USD $312/kWh) is a 7S (26 V) 63 Ah module; it is not the 16S (60 V) 43 Ah module used in the Chrysler Pacifica, and not even built of the same cells. The Pacifica module is designed to thermal management via a bottom plate, but it is not apparent whether or not there is any thermal management provision in the JH3 module, although the general construction is similar. The JH3 module is a recent addition to the EV West website.
If the 22.6 V and 232 Ah specs are for a different module, I assume that it is the Tesla Model S module, but that's not an LG module.... with the lg chem cells at 232ah and 22.8v I would need something like 6s5p.
Awesome. Thanks so much. I’ve been trying to find the module I was looking at and apparently it wasn’t at ev west. Sorry about that and thanks for the information!There have been many LG modules, and EV West has sold a lot of a different module (the one intended for the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid, which is no longer available). So it's presumably this one:
LG Chem Super Cells 1.6 kWh - JH3 63Ah 7S High Power Battery Module - For Tesla Systems
[LGSS1.7]
As I noted in another thread,
It is 7S, so about 26 V nominal not 22.6 V. It has 63 Ah capacity, not 232 Ah.
If the 22.6 V and 232 Ah specs are for a different module, I assume that it is the Tesla Model S module, but that's not an LG module.
With the LG H3 63 Ah 7S modules, 128 kW at 1.6 kWh per module would be 80 modules, for a total of 1568 pounds (711 kg). For about 130 V nominal, they would be 5S16P... sixteen strings of five modules each, with sixteen 35-point BMS systems.
With the 232 Ah 22.6 V Tesla model S modules, 128 kW at 5.3 kWh per module would be 24 modules, for a total of 1320 pounds (599 kg). For about 136 V nominal, that could indeed be 6S5P modules... five strings of six modules each, with five 36-point BMS systems.
Quick question about this. If I am shooting for 128kwh then With the lg modules 80x1.6=128. How does this work if some of the modules are in series and not adding up their kwh? Or am I misunderstanding series vs parallel or kwh vs ah? Thanks again.There have been many LG modules, and EV West has sold a lot of a different module (the one intended for the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid, which is no longer available). So it's presumably this one:
LG Chem Super Cells 1.6 kWh - JH3 63Ah 7S High Power Battery Module - For Tesla Systems
[LGSS1.7]
As I noted in another thread,
It is 7S, so about 26 V nominal not 22.6 V. It has 63 Ah capacity, not 232 Ah.
If the 22.6 V and 232 Ah specs are for a different module, I assume that it is the Tesla Model S module, but that's not an LG module.
With the LG H3 63 Ah 7S modules, 128 kW at 1.6 kWh per module would be 80 modules, for a total of 1568 pounds (711 kg). For about 130 V nominal, they would be 5S16P... sixteen strings of five modules each, with sixteen 35-point BMS systems.
With the 232 Ah 22.6 V Tesla model S modules, 128 kW at 5.3 kWh per module would be 24 modules, for a total of 1320 pounds (599 kg). For about 136 V nominal, that could indeed be 6S5P modules... five strings of six modules each, with five 36-point BMS systems.
I am. Kind of open to anything at this point.Are you considering Tesla modules?
Right... regardless of how they are arranged.If I am shooting for 128kwh then With the lg modules 80x1.6=128.
The voltage of anything connected in series (cells, battery modules, batteries, solar cells, any voltage source) adds up, so the possible configuration of these 26-volt modules would be five in series; that is, a string of five of them would give you 130 volts, still at 63 amp-hours.How does this work if some of the modules are in series and not adding up their kwh? Or am I misunderstanding series vs parallel or kwh vs ah? Thanks again.
Is there a particular reason you think you will be successful with this project ?Quick question about this. If I am shooting for 128kwh then With the lg modules 80x1.6=128. How does this work if some of the modules are in series and not adding up their kwh? Or am I misunderstanding series vs parallel or kwh vs ah? Thanks again.
300wh/m is the average performance that fairly aerodynamic and weight-optimized factory EVs get. I doubt it can be achieved here.Isn't your 600 wh/m way too high? Did you ask EV West what they experience with their older van conversions? They offer a kit for the older van that may work for yours. I would build a small pack first assuming that it will average 300 wh/m and get it on the road. Then add the second half of battery power later, if needed at all.
