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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need help figuring out why my Hyper 9's are complaining about canbus errors.

I have 2 hyper 9's, Orion BMS 2 (which is communicating very happily on the canbus even after the Hyper 9's shut down), Elcon charger, Elcon DC/DC.

I've got 120 ohms on the Elcon charger terminating one end of my network. The 120 ohm resistor in the Orion has vanished, so I put a 120 ohm resistor on the connector to it as termination of the other 'end'. The Hyper 9's and Canbus to USB adapter are in the middle.

Everything is working great, green lights and no faults on the Hyper 9's and the Orion until I hit the throttle, and then the Hyper 9's throw a series of errors relating to protocols - which I understand means canbus has failed.

Any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thanks for that clarification. But, there's no ground coming out of the Elcon or the Orion - or the Hyper 9's with the high and low wires. Each is grounded to the frame using the ground wire available to the case or in the harness. My connectors all have an extra pin, I could run a third wire and connect it to 12v ground - which the Orion and Elcon and Hyper 9's are connected to.
 

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Note that by common ground I meant a ground that's acceptable for I/O between the participating devices on the bus. Given the I/O is often optically isolated, there may be a separate pin designated as I/O ground as opposed to battery ground.
 

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Here is Netgain's wiring diagram :
I/O ground pins are all over the place. No specific call outs for its use in CAN.

Elcon DC-DC with CAN doc :
It calls out CAN_GND on the connector

I don't see Orion BMS calling out I/O or CAN ground, still looking
Orion BMS docs make this call out :
Please note that the CAN transceivers inside the BMS are referenced to the 12v-24vground (Main I/O pin 12) and are not electrically isolated from each other.While most motor controllers and chargers isolate the CANBUS from the battery pack, if the BMS is used with a motor controller, charger, or other device which does not have a CANBUS interfacethat is isolated from the battery pack, an appropriately rated CANBUS isolation device must be used.

Finally Elcon charger (picked a random one from the product list) also makes a call out for CANGND
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks so much, I will go through all those. I think I have them all covered. but I'll make sure. I'll also take a picture of the project and label all the ground points currently in use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
On the Hyper 9's, I have K1-1 (black with blue stripe) grounded. Although that diagram shows a lot of grounds, they are all the same pin on K1. the only other ground is K1-12 - and it's the thermistor ground.

On the Elcon charger, there is one pair coming out other than CAN, a black ground to the chassis, and a red wire that gets +12 to enable charging.

On the Elcon DC/DC. I am not currently using CAN, we are just using the Enable line in that connector

On the Orion BMS, I have the chassis of the BMS grounded to the frame. The big connector goes to the Hawkeye SCM and the SCM is also grounded to the frame.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Also, here's what I'm using for connectors and the resistor I've added in to replace the Orion resistor that's gone away. I've read that using 'friction' connectors is not best, but I can't really solder everything together for a while, and there will always need to be some way to disconnect.

Bicycle tire Automotive tire Bicycle handlebar Bicycle fork Motor vehicle
 

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Not to comment on the additional information you provided, but I remembered another CAN advice I came across in the manual for my Curtis controller :
It is recommended that the CAN wires be run as a twisted pair. However, many successful applications at 125 kbit/s are run without twisting, simply using two lines bundled in with the rest of the low current wiring. The CANbus wiring should be kept away from the high current cables and cross them at right angles when necessary.
 

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I need help figuring out why my Hyper 9's are complaining about canbus errors.

I have 2 hyper 9's, Orion BMS 2 (which is communicating very happily on the canbus even after the Hyper 9's shut down), Elcon charger, Elcon DC/DC.

I've got 120 ohms on the Elcon charger terminating one end of my network. The 120 ohm resistor in the Orion has vanished, so I put a 120 ohm resistor on the connector to it as termination of the other 'end'. The Hyper 9's and Canbus to USB adapter are in the middle.

Everything is working great, green lights and no faults on the Hyper 9's and the Orion until I hit the throttle, and then the Hyper 9's throw a series of errors relating to protocols - which I understand means canbus has failed.

Any thoughts?
As a consultant, I have wired several EV Canbus vehicles. You should use shielded twisted pair wire:

Here is more information:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Thank you for that, nowhere else I looked said use shielded, but I can. Thanks for the link. Even the Hyper 9 canbus wires coming off the connector are not shielded - but the ones come off the Orion are.

I've read the Orion documentation and I've built the canbus as close to that as possible. And, it has worked in this configuration, and the Orion is totally fine. It's only the Slave Hyper 9 that seems to be having trouble - and I'm not sure what to make of that. As the slave gives up and throws and error, the Orion software continues to read the bus no problem.
 

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Thank you for that, nowhere else I looked said use shielded, but I can. Thanks for the link. Even the Hyper 9 canbus wires coming off the connector are not shielded - but the ones come off the Orion are.

I've read the Orion documentation and I've built the canbus as close to that as possible. And, it has worked in this configuration, and the Orion is totally fine. It's only the Slave Hyper 9 that seems to be having trouble - and I'm not sure what to make of that. As the slave gives up and throws and error, the Orion software continues to read the bus no problem.
Given the quality of your build I doubt you have a bad ground or configuration problem.

I strongly suspect your CANBUS wires are acting like antennas and picking up interference from the primary wires ( motor leads )

A protocol error isnt a failure to communicate , its signals the system doesnt recognize showing up on the CANBUS.

Since you need twisted pairs ( and/or shielded ) wires for the entire CANBUS you should correct that first and see if the problem goes away.
 
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