Did you ever get any information on your question? I too would be interested in modifying an IMA in a Honda Accord hybrid. I cannot seem to find anyone who has successfully done so.
Honda Civic/Insight IMA and Mods
Has anyone tried battery modification to a Civic or Insight IMA? I know that PHEV conversion has been the popular thing in Californa with the Toyota Prius with Plug in supply charging like 5 to 6 grand for the kit to convert Prius. I have seen on another forum site where additional start battery and alternator cut out switch was used to increase FE. The starter on Honda's IMA seems redundent if IMA is used and curious if can be bypassed?
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
I have an Insight. I still have the batteries on warranty, so it will be about 25k miles before I will look into any changes. Mine is a 2000 model, so I would expect most owners are thinking the same here.Has anyone tried battery modification to a Civic or Insight IMA? I know that PHEV conversion has been the popular thing in Californa with the Toyota Prius with Plug in supply charging like 5 to 6 grand for the kit to convert Prius. I have seen on another forum site where additional start battery and alternator cut out switch was used to increase FE. The starter on Honda's IMA seems redundent if IMA is used and curious if can be bypassed?
I have seen a kit online, but I have not heard any thing on it. If I did do anything it would be to remove the gas engine and make it all EV with an AC motor.
Try 99mpg.com
I have a Honda Accord hybrid and as soon as the battery is out of warranty I plan to convert it to a plug in hybrid. Since there is a 3 liter 6 cylinder ICE I'm not expecting huge gains but it will be a learning experience trying.
I have a Honda Accord hybrid and as soon as the battery is out of warranty I plan to convert it to a plug in hybrid. Since there is a 3 liter 6 cylinder ICE I'm not expecting huge gains but it will be a learning experience trying.
I have a Honda Insight.
Those thinking about a "plug-in" for it need to understand the difference in it and a Prius. The Prius is an electric helped by a gas. The Hondas are gas helped by electric. The Insight will not operate on pure electric. There is a mod which installs a retractable wheel which is electric powered.
If you want a plug-in, sell your Honda at a good price and get a 2004 Prius and convert it. Remember, the lead acid version of plug-in has to have new batteries every year or so at about $1000 plus. The lithium cells are hard to get into the space in a size large enough to run the high voltage needed.
Those thinking about a "plug-in" for it need to understand the difference in it and a Prius. The Prius is an electric helped by a gas. The Hondas are gas helped by electric. The Insight will not operate on pure electric. There is a mod which installs a retractable wheel which is electric powered.
If you want a plug-in, sell your Honda at a good price and get a 2004 Prius and convert it. Remember, the lead acid version of plug-in has to have new batteries every year or so at about $1000 plus. The lithium cells are hard to get into the space in a size large enough to run the high voltage needed.
I fully understand the difference between the Prius and the Honda IMA systems. I agree the Prius is much better for converting because you can run on electric only. In my case however I live in South Dakota and there really is no such thing as city driving or stop and go traffic. Since I don't have to hit the brakes much the IMA battery hardly ever gets charged.
This is what I have observed with my Honda Accord;
If the battery SOC (state of charge) is at half then it almost never provides any assist unless I really tromp on the throttle. Remember most of my driving is 55 to 75mph driving with rare need for braking.
If the SOC is at 60% then I get modest assists on the uphills but only when the engine revs are low.
If the SOC is 70% then I gets more aggressive assists but this drains the battery down to 60% or 50% fairly quickly.
If the SOC is 80 or 90% (I've never had it all the way up to 100%) Then you get very very aggressive assists but again they don't last long because the battery capacity or temperature or both limits the assist.
So you might be thinking to yourself, how does he get up to 90% SOC if he hardly uses his brakes? I ran some tests where I found the IMA won't assist if the the automatic transmission is in 2nd gear. So when I was doing some slower driving one day I kept it in low gear but put it in drive when using the brakes and eventually I got the batteries charge way up.
So what can we learn about this? I conclude that if I can keep the SOC up with an auxiliary bank of batteries that the IMA would assist more often and more aggressively. I planned to use a 48 volt battery pack with a DC to DC converter that converted the 48 volts up to the Honda pack voltage. The current would be limited so as to not build up too much heat in the hybrid pack. The 48 volt pack would be charged at home from the grid.
So when I'm cruising down the road at 65 the IMA would kick in more often. Providing modest gains of which probably would never pay for the batteries, DC to DC converter, relays, charger and wiring. But it would be fun to try. Besides I've been in a Prius, I like my Hybrid Accord Waaaaayyyyy more. The thing is like a rocket! To bad I only get 30mpg.
Suggestions welcome.
My real electric vehicle will be a Toyota RAV4.
This is what I have observed with my Honda Accord;
If the battery SOC (state of charge) is at half then it almost never provides any assist unless I really tromp on the throttle. Remember most of my driving is 55 to 75mph driving with rare need for braking.
If the SOC is at 60% then I get modest assists on the uphills but only when the engine revs are low.
If the SOC is 70% then I gets more aggressive assists but this drains the battery down to 60% or 50% fairly quickly.
If the SOC is 80 or 90% (I've never had it all the way up to 100%) Then you get very very aggressive assists but again they don't last long because the battery capacity or temperature or both limits the assist.
So you might be thinking to yourself, how does he get up to 90% SOC if he hardly uses his brakes? I ran some tests where I found the IMA won't assist if the the automatic transmission is in 2nd gear. So when I was doing some slower driving one day I kept it in low gear but put it in drive when using the brakes and eventually I got the batteries charge way up.
So what can we learn about this? I conclude that if I can keep the SOC up with an auxiliary bank of batteries that the IMA would assist more often and more aggressively. I planned to use a 48 volt battery pack with a DC to DC converter that converted the 48 volts up to the Honda pack voltage. The current would be limited so as to not build up too much heat in the hybrid pack. The 48 volt pack would be charged at home from the grid.
So when I'm cruising down the road at 65 the IMA would kick in more often. Providing modest gains of which probably would never pay for the batteries, DC to DC converter, relays, charger and wiring. But it would be fun to try. Besides I've been in a Prius, I like my Hybrid Accord Waaaaayyyyy more. The thing is like a rocket! To bad I only get 30mpg.
Suggestions welcome.
My real electric vehicle will be a Toyota RAV4.
Try http://www.99mpg.com
There are a lot of Mods at that site. I don't have a second car, so I can not try to do them. I have seen a conversion to a all electric
http://www.evalbum.com/461.html
http://ev.whitecape.org/insight/
JN
Yes, I've been to 99mpg.com and have conversed with the gentleman behind that. He knows quite a bit about the IMA system that pertains to the Honda Insight but admitted he knows less about the Accord or Civic IMA systems. The best advice he gave me was to watch out how much current flows into the hybrid pack from the auxiliary pack since the internal resistance is low in the hybrid pack.
The 2000, Honda began production and sales of the seventh generation civic. It closely resembled the XYR concept with the exception of the front bumper and rear spoiler. The 2000 civic was an element of Honda Project Genesis, an effort to bring younger buyers to the marque in the United States.
The civic came in two different models. The ZZT230 powered by an economical 1.8 L 4-cylinder 140 hp 1ZZ-FE engine and the ZZT231 powered by a higher-performance 1.8 L twin turbo 4-cylinder 381 hp 2ZZ-GE http://www.safemeds.com/version, co-developed with Yamaha. Both of these engines featured Honda's signature VVT-i (Variable Valve Timing with Intelligence) system, which continuously varies the camshaft timing.
For 2003 model year, the civic received a face lift, with a revised front bumper, revised tail lights, and the addition of several new colors to the lineup. The GT-S was also now equipped with a drive-by-wire (DBW) throttle body in the manual transmission model.
The civic came in two different models. The ZZT230 powered by an economical 1.8 L 4-cylinder 140 hp 1ZZ-FE engine and the ZZT231 powered by a higher-performance 1.8 L twin turbo 4-cylinder 381 hp 2ZZ-GE http://www.safemeds.com/version, co-developed with Yamaha. Both of these engines featured Honda's signature VVT-i (Variable Valve Timing with Intelligence) system, which continuously varies the camshaft timing.
For 2003 model year, the civic received a face lift, with a revised front bumper, revised tail lights, and the addition of several new colors to the lineup. The GT-S was also now equipped with a drive-by-wire (DBW) throttle body in the manual transmission model.
Okay, so I'm kinda new at this whole modification thing. I have a 1997 Honda Civic EX...with an automatic 1.6L MFI VTEC. I know a good amount about cars, and as far as installing anything my dad is a mechanic of well, he's been a mechanic longer than I've been alive. I'm wanting to put modifications for obviously increasing the power a little bit. I'm not really looking for an extremely fast car as of yet. I intend to make it a racer but not until I can get another car for every day driving. So here's my question. For the first modification. What should I do? I was thinking somewhere along the lines of cold air intake. Is this reasonable or should I look into something else. In time I'm wanting to supercharge it (not a big fan of the turbo). I'm wanting to keep it as much of a sleeper as possible, so if anyone can give me a place or to start, and some good websites for information to read up on modifications to my car that'd be great. If you can't post the websites on here, I can give you a screen name to send them to me.
I've read most of the rules but like I said in the introduction page, I'm new at this forum thing, so I'm still learning if I do something I shouldn't, PLEASE don't hesitate to tell me!
Thanks everyone for the help and advice!!!:thumbs:
I've read most of the rules but like I said in the introduction page, I'm new at this forum thing, so I'm still learning if I do something I shouldn't, PLEASE don't hesitate to tell me!
Thanks everyone for the help and advice!!!:thumbs:
I was looking around the internet and I saw a 4g63 motor in a civic. I was bored and started to search around and found nothing. WHat kinda mounts, ecu, wireharness, tranny do these people use?
wiring harness. you would have to use the dsm http://www.servepharmacy.com/engine harness and the ecu harness. they have to run the motor either using the stock ecu or an aem ems, tmo ecu, etc. as far as running the stock dash, it isnt gonna happen. its gonna be an uatomoter gauge setup most like, (rpm, speed, fuel level, etc)
wiring harness. you would have to use the dsm http://www.servepharmacy.com/engine harness and the ecu harness. they have to run the motor either using the stock ecu or an aem ems, tmo ecu, etc. as far as running the stock dash, it isnt gonna happen. its gonna be an uatomoter gauge setup most like, (rpm, speed, fuel level, etc)
I am new to the forum. I have a nice 2001 Honda Insight (Blue) with Mike
Dabrowski's MIMA kit installed. If anyone has any questions about the performance of the kit and car then just ask. Anything you could possibly
want to know about the original 2000-2006 Insights you will find on Mike's web site www.99mpg.com.
Dabrowski's MIMA kit installed. If anyone has any questions about the performance of the kit and car then just ask. Anything you could possibly
want to know about the original 2000-2006 Insights you will find on Mike's web site www.99mpg.com.
One thing you can think about or do, is to precharge your battery pack. I found that some were doing this with the first gen honda insight, and built a similar charger for my prius. I understand the honda insight owners were doing this precharging, mainly to keep the traction pack balanced, extending the life of the pack.
I wonder if you keep your honda insight battery fully charged from the plugin charger, if you'd get better mileage?
Here's a link to a photo of the precharger I built for the prius. You do the same for your pack, using only enough of the 350ma CC pwr supplies to match the honda insight's traction pack.
www.flickr.com/photos/mbarkley/4822052957/in/set-72157623998008161/
I wonder if you keep your honda insight battery fully charged from the plugin charger, if you'd get better mileage?
Here's a link to a photo of the precharger I built for the prius. You do the same for your pack, using only enough of the 350ma CC pwr supplies to match the honda insight's traction pack.
www.flickr.com/photos/mbarkley/4822052957/in/set-72157623998008161/
Interesting variation on my basic grid charger concept:
http://99mpg.com/Data/resources/downloads/gridchargerstuff/grid_charger_balancer_2.pdf
dual current version:
http://99mpg.com/Data/resources/downloads/gridchargerstuff/dual_stage_grid_charger1.pdf
Universal microcontroller version which I will be selling in the next month or so.
http://99mpg.com/Data/resources/downloads/gridchargerstuff/fullgridchargersystem1.pdf
The only disadvantage I can see to your version is that you cannot set a maximum voltage after which the CC becomes a declining current when the battery reaches full. From my experience with the prius cells, they can overheat and vent even at the low 350ma, if they are fully charged, and the current is maintained so I hope you are powering up the blower when you are charging, or that you have a timer on the charger.
I used 3 or 4 fixed 48V supplies each of which could be set over a 10% range. The single 350ma CC supply max voltage is 48V, so if you are charging an insight pack, which will usually read about 168V when full, you can set the no load voltage of the combined power supplies to say 165V, by adjusting one or more of the fixed voltage supplies, and when the pack reaches that max voltage, the current will start to ramp down towards zero as the pack voltage rises above that setting.
The universal charger will be able to charge anything from a single 6 cell
prius or Honda subpack at 7.2V nominal , to a second gen prius pack.
operational description is here.
http://99mpg.com/Projectcars/buildingahybridcar/
Custom internal harnesses will be available for the first and second generation Insight, All of the Civics, and the second gen Prius.
The civic amd prius blowers require a PWM speed control, which will be a small microcontroller circuit that will switch blower control from the stock controller to the charger controller when the charger is powered up.
Temperature probes will measure inlet air temperature and the outlet ait temperature, and can be set to shut down the charger is the differential gets too high.
On the first generation insight, and civics where the pack has a positive temperature coefficient thermal strip running next to each cell, the charger will also watch for the combined resistance to get over an adjustable threshold where it will shut down.
So far it looks like as much as 80-90% of batteries that are experiencing recalibrations or setting IMA codes respond to the rebalancing well and the problems stop. Some for several months, others for a shorter time.
I was told that the Toyota patent on the battery management system mentions an occasional balancing as a requirement for long life of the pack.
It seems that honda missed the mark by not providing a mechanism to accomplish that.
http://99mpg.com/Data/resources/downloads/gridchargerstuff/grid_charger_balancer_2.pdf
dual current version:
http://99mpg.com/Data/resources/downloads/gridchargerstuff/dual_stage_grid_charger1.pdf
Universal microcontroller version which I will be selling in the next month or so.
http://99mpg.com/Data/resources/downloads/gridchargerstuff/fullgridchargersystem1.pdf
The only disadvantage I can see to your version is that you cannot set a maximum voltage after which the CC becomes a declining current when the battery reaches full. From my experience with the prius cells, they can overheat and vent even at the low 350ma, if they are fully charged, and the current is maintained so I hope you are powering up the blower when you are charging, or that you have a timer on the charger.
I used 3 or 4 fixed 48V supplies each of which could be set over a 10% range. The single 350ma CC supply max voltage is 48V, so if you are charging an insight pack, which will usually read about 168V when full, you can set the no load voltage of the combined power supplies to say 165V, by adjusting one or more of the fixed voltage supplies, and when the pack reaches that max voltage, the current will start to ramp down towards zero as the pack voltage rises above that setting.
The universal charger will be able to charge anything from a single 6 cell
prius or Honda subpack at 7.2V nominal , to a second gen prius pack.
operational description is here.
http://99mpg.com/Projectcars/buildingahybridcar/
Custom internal harnesses will be available for the first and second generation Insight, All of the Civics, and the second gen Prius.
The civic amd prius blowers require a PWM speed control, which will be a small microcontroller circuit that will switch blower control from the stock controller to the charger controller when the charger is powered up.
Temperature probes will measure inlet air temperature and the outlet ait temperature, and can be set to shut down the charger is the differential gets too high.
On the first generation insight, and civics where the pack has a positive temperature coefficient thermal strip running next to each cell, the charger will also watch for the combined resistance to get over an adjustable threshold where it will shut down.
So far it looks like as much as 80-90% of batteries that are experiencing recalibrations or setting IMA codes respond to the rebalancing well and the problems stop. Some for several months, others for a shorter time.
I was told that the Toyota patent on the battery management system mentions an occasional balancing as a requirement for long life of the pack.
It seems that honda missed the mark by not providing a mechanism to accomplish that.
A question I had about the Civics was, "Is the electric motor designed or capable of being used in full electric mode like a Prius or was is more of an assisting motor." Someone posted here that it is indeed a "booster" type motor, not capable of electric drive alone.
Just curious if anyone of you knows if the design has changed so it can do all electric now?
Just curious if anyone of you knows if the design has changed so it can do all electric now?
I like your thinking. I am considering getting a 2nd battery pack (oem toyota)for my 04 Prius to do what your talking about. On the Prius the 1st battery pack is mainly to capture regen and blend. The SOC drops in lower temps and nightime driving.One thing you can think about or do, is to precharge your battery pack. I found that some were doing this with the first gen honda insight, and built a similar charger for my prius. I understand the honda insight owners were doing this precharging, mainly to keep the traction pack balanced, extending the life of the pack.
I wonder if you keep your honda insight battery fully charged from the plugin charger, if you'd get better mileage?
Here's a link to a photo of the precharger I built for the prius. You do the same for your pack, using only enough of the 350ma CC pwr supplies to match the honda insight's traction pack.
www.flickr.com/photos/mbarkley/4822052957/in/set-72157623998008161/
OK I've read twice on here about the 04 Prius being a platform to add battery. What about newer models?
After converting my S10 from a V6 to all electric, I don't want to do that again. There's just a lot of advantages to adding capacity to something like a Prius that can drive on battery if the battery is large enough.
My wife drives about 25 miles each day so this is what I'm looking to do for her. And with a hybrid if we need to make a trip out of state to visit family there's no problem using the same car.
After converting my S10 from a V6 to all electric, I don't want to do that again. There's just a lot of advantages to adding capacity to something like a Prius that can drive on battery if the battery is large enough.
My wife drives about 25 miles each day so this is what I'm looking to do for her. And with a hybrid if we need to make a trip out of state to visit family there's no problem using the same car.
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