[Dxta]

Hi everyone. I have some DC motors, laying in my garage, for different applications, that I'd want to see if it's possible to modifiy some of the DC motors, like those found in Toyota hybrid packs (blower fans found on almost all Toyota battery packs.

I have disassembled one of the blower fans, thinking i could connect it to a 12V DC source, to see if it works, so tht i can convert the blower, into some sort of blower, for my refrigerator, seeing that these blower fans, move alot of air, cooling battery packs during operation.

I have removed the controller or so from the motor, during disassemble, and applied 12VDC to two of the wires(U and W), leaving V aside. The motor turns for some few seconds, and stops, but would turn again, if i once again tap on the wires.

Is there a way i could make DC motors of such, to work continuously, without using the controller, or ardianor?

PS: have got also electric steering wheel motor, which i intend to modify to power a small pump I'm trying to make.

Picture 1 shows the Rx400h blower fan motor, disassembled

Picture 2 shows the windings on the blower motor exposed.
If you look closely here, you'd see the three wires exposed (UVW).

Picture 3 shows the controller, with 12V indicated on the PCB.
Thanks everyone.

 

[brian_]

... I have disassembled one of the blower fans, thinking i could connect it to a 12V DC source, to see if it works, so tht i can convert the blower, into some sort of blower, for my refrigerator, seeing that these blower fans, move alot of air, cooling battery packs during operation.

I have removed the controller or so from the motor, during disassemble, and applied 12VDC to two of the wires(U and W), leaving V aside. The motor turns for some few seconds, and stops, but would turn again, if i once again tap on the wires.

Is there a way i could make DC motors of such, to work continuously, without using the controller...

No. You need to learn the fundamentals of how DC motors and AC motors work. If these have "U, V, W" connections, they are three-phase AC motors; they cannot run on DC. If you're not willing to read something like the Wikipedia pages for these motors, then you shouldn't expect other people to personally educate you.

 

[Dxta]

No. You need to learn the fundamentals of how DC motors and AC motors work. If these have "U, V, W" connections, they are three-phase AC motors; they cannot run on DC. If you're not willing to read something like the Wikipedia pages for these motors, then you shouldn't expect other people to personally educate you.

You just suggested I read, some basics, and at the same time, saying, "if I'm not willing to....". How did you know, i haven't read? It's a simple question i asked, whether if it was possible to run such DC motors without the controllers.
If you understand how these blower motors used on the hybrid pack of a Toyota hybrid, you'd know they are run on some sort of DC, and not AC. O may have mistakenly included that jargon in there, or so.
Thanks for your reply though.

 

[remy_martian]

"Some sort of DC"...OK, I'll play.

Those motors use 3 phase DC from a battery.

 

[Jordan325ic]

What you have is a "Brushless DC" motor (BLDC), which although it has "DC" in the name, really acts like a 3 phase AC motor. Very simply, it has a DC source, which is split up by the controller and applied to different phases of the motor in sequence to create rotation.

In short, no. There is no way you can make a BLDC motor operate without a controller. It is physically designed to work with 3 phases of electricity.

 

[Dxta]

What you have is a "Brushless DC" motor (BLDC), which although it has "DC" in the name, really acts like a 3 phase AC motor. Very simply, it has a DC source, which is split up by the controller and applied to different phases of the motor in sequence to create rotation.

In short, no. There is no way you can make a BLDC motor operate without a controller. It is physically designed to work with 3 phases of electricity.

This is the reply i was looking for. I know it's a 3-phase DC motor though. Really appreciate.

 

[brian_]

You just suggested I read, some basics, and at the same time, saying, "if I'm not willing to....". How did you know, i haven't read? It's a simple question i asked, whether if it was possible to run such DC motors without the controllers.
If you understand how these blower motors used on the hybrid pack of a Toyota hybrid, you'd know they are run on some sort of DC, and not AC. O may have mistakenly included that jargon in there, or so.

If you read anything, try reading it again, since you clearly didn't understand the first time. I explained that the motor is a 3-phase type and that the U, V, and W connections are the three phases...if you read about that, you would no longer expect connecting DC to two of them to work.

In whatever references you're using, note that the windings that you show are a basic 3-phase two-pole concentrated winding configuration... of an AC motor, not a DC motor.

Perhaps you should also check the references that you read for how many "sorts" of DC there are. The answer is one: unchanging polarity, although not necessarily constant or continuous. Of course the power input to the controller that you - for some reason - are determined to ignore is simply DC; is there some reason that you think that the output is also DC? If so, why do you think there are three outputs, and what do you think the controller is doing?

What you have is a "Brushless DC" motor (BLDC), which although it has "DC" in the name, really acts like a 3 phase AC motor. Very simply, it has a DC source, which is split up by the controller and applied to different phases of the motor in sequence to create rotation.

To be fair, this is a very good description of what you should have read about, and you have probably been misled by the strange term "brushless DC motor" or "BLDC". If you saw that and didn't actually find out what it meant (you certainly didn't ask anything here such as "what's a BLDC motor?"), you wouldn't understand why a 3-phase "BLDC" motor needs all three phases to run, and that they need to be coordinated so none of the phases can just be connected to DC power. BLDC motors are just AC motors running on crudely switched square-wave power instead of nice sinusoidal power.

In short, no. There is no way you can make a BLDC motor operate without a controller. It is physically designed to work with 3 phases of electricity.

This is the reply i was looking for. I know it's a 3-phase DC motor though. Really appreciate.

But it's not a DC motor, so you still don't really know anything at all. I think what you appreciate is being handed an answer instead of putting even one minute of effort into learning anything.

So, Dxta, do you understand how to run the motor now?
And I'm still curious: why do you want to run the motor without the controller which is so fundamental to its operation that it's built into the motor housing?

 

[remy_martian]

He doesn't care - he just has a pile of "DC-motors" he's salvaged for free because nobody in the village knows how to make them work and you keep making his brain hurt when all he's asking is how to connect a 3 phase DC-motor directly to a car battery.

And all you do is paragraphs of blah blah blah, Brian, when all he needs to do is very quickly connect PAIRS of UVW to the battery at a time. I've heard that the ladies say he's too quick, so he should be able to make the motor spin 😂

There's good reason why he's in a loin cloth letting the goats do all that survival thinking.

 

[muddbudd]

They technically are DC motors due to the way the coils are arranged BLDC motors are DC and PMSM are AC, I'm not sure which these motors are but they can both be controlled in the same way, buy a hobby brushless speed controller with the correct voltage and power raiting and a servo tester. These should work.

Amazon.com: 30A RC Brushless Motor Electric Speed Controller ESC 3A UBEC with XT60 & 3.5mm bullet plugs : Toys & Games

Buy 30A RC Brushless Motor Electric Speed Controller ESC 3A UBEC with XT60 & 3.5mm bullet plugs: Electric Speed Controllers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: Teyleten Robot RC Servo Tester 3CH Digital Multi ECS Consistency Speed Controller Checker Tester Master Adjustment Steering Gear for RC Helicopter Car Boat 3pcs : Electronics

Amazon.com: Teyleten Robot RC Servo Tester 3CH Digital Multi ECS Consistency Speed Controller Checker Tester Master Adjustment Steering Gear for RC Helicopter Car Boat 3pcs : Electronics

www.amazon.com

With these you should be able to control the speed, if the fan turns the wrong way swap over one of the three phase wires with another one.

 

[Dxta]

If you read anything, try reading it again, since you clearly didn't understand the first time. I explained that the motor is a 3-phase type and that the U, V, and W connections are the three phases...if you read about that, you would no longer expect connecting DC to two of them to work.

In whatever references you're using, note that the windings that you show are a basic 3-phase two-pole concentrated winding configuration... of an AC motor, not a DC motor.

Perhaps you should also check the references that you read for how many "sorts" of DC there are. The answer is one: unchanging polarity, although not necessarily constant or continuous. Of course the power input to the controller that you - for some reason - are determined to ignore is simply DC; is there some reason that you think that the output is also DC? If so, why do you think there are three outputs, and what do you think the controller is doing?


To be fair, this is a very good description of what you should have read about, and you have probably been misled by the strange term "brushless DC motor" or "BLDC". If you saw that and didn't actually find out what it meant (you certainly didn't ask anything here such as "what's a BLDC motor?"), you wouldn't understand why a 3-phase "BLDC" motor needs all three phases to run, and that they need to be coordinated so none of the phases can just be connected to DC power. BLDC motors are just AC motors running on crudely switched square-wave power instead of nice sinusoidal power.



But it's not a DC motor, so you still don't really know anything at all. I think what you appreciate is being handed an answer instead of putting even one minute of effort into learning anything.

So, Dxta, do you understand how to run the motor now?
And I'm still curious: why do you want to run the motor without the controller which is so fundamental to its operation that it's built into the motor housing?

Y running the motor without the controller? Reason is wanted to see, if it's possible for such a small blower fan motor as shown above, can be modified to run other applications, directly. But from what i have read here, it's obvious the motor can't be hacked to run without it's controller.

Finally, I'm interested in anyone spoon feeding me as you kinda suggested. That's just figment of your imagination dude.

 

[Dxta]

He doesn't care - he just has a pile of "DC-motors" he's salvaged for free because nobody in the village knows how to make them work and you keep making his brain hurt when all he's asking is how to connect a 3 phase DC-motor directly to a car battery.

And all you do is paragraphs of blah blah blah, Brian, when all he needs to do is very quickly connect PAIRS of UVW to the battery at a time. I've heard that the ladies say he's too quick, so he should be able to make the motor spin 😂

There's good reason why he's in a loin cloth letting the goats do all that survival thinking.

You seem to think everyone is a bully like you with such a distasteful comments isn't it?

 

[Dxta]

They technically are DC motors due to the way the coils are arranged BLDC motors are DC and PMSM are AC, I'm not sure which these motors are but they can both be controlled in the same way, buy a hobby brushless speed controller with the correct voltage and power raiting and a servo tester. These should work.

Amazon.com: 30A RC Brushless Motor Electric Speed Controller ESC 3A UBEC with XT60 & 3.5mm bullet plugs : Toys & Games

Buy 30A RC Brushless Motor Electric Speed Controller ESC 3A UBEC with XT60 & 3.5mm bullet plugs: Electric Speed Controllers - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: Teyleten Robot RC Servo Tester 3CH Digital Multi ECS Consistency Speed Controller Checker Tester Master Adjustment Steering Gear for RC Helicopter Car Boat 3pcs : Electronics

Amazon.com: Teyleten Robot RC Servo Tester 3CH Digital Multi ECS Consistency Speed Controller Checker Tester Master Adjustment Steering Gear for RC Helicopter Car Boat 3pcs : Electronics

www.amazon.com

With these you should be able to control the speed, if the fan turns the wrong way swap over one of the three phase wires with another one.

Once again, thank you for the replies. Got exactly what i wanted knowing now.
This was far way more, reasonable, and educative comments, than what the other so-called"professors" have been up to.

 

[Dxta]

Thanks guy, i think we can close the thread now.

 

[brian_]

They technically are DC motors due to the way the coils are arranged BLDC motors are DC and PMSM are AC...

No, the same three-phase stator and PM rotor will work as a "BLDC" motor with switched power and normal PM synchronous AC motor with sinusoidal power.

... I'm not sure which these motors are but they can both be controlled in the same way, buy a hobby brushless speed controller with the correct voltage and power raiting and a servo tester...

With these you should be able to control the speed, if the fan turns the wrong way swap over one of the three phase wires with another one.

... or use the controller which comes with the motor. The problem might be that the original poster has no idea how to command the controller to run the motor.

 

[brian_]

Once again, thank you for the replies. Got exactly what i wanted knowing now.
This was far way more, reasonable, and educative comments, than what the other so-called"professors" have been up to.

More useful than this, from the very first reply?

No.
...
If these have "U, V, W" connections, they are three-phase AC motors; they cannot run on DC.

Which of those words was difficult for you to understand? If all you really wanted was to know if the motor would work on DC, as you said, you had the answer directly right at the beginning. You're welcome.

 

[brian_]

Thanks guy, i think we can close the thread now.

Interesting suggestion. Of course, that's not your choice to make.

 

[brian_]

Y running the motor without the controller? Reason is wanted to see, if it's possible for such a small blower fan motor as shown above, can be modified to run other applications, directly.

Good; thanks for answering the question. I don't know why the size of the motor would change whether or not it needs a controller, but now you know anyway.

You could use the motor with the controller, of course.

 

[remy_martian]

Which he doesn't have...

oops, thread was closed 😂

 

[Dxta]

Interesting suggestion. Of course, that's not your choice to make.

Was mine dude. Don't let me report you to Trump now

 

[Dxta]

Which he doesn't have...

oops, thread was closed 😂