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Just got off the phone from HPEV and was told they have not set a solid price yet but the word is the AC57 96 volt 650 amp setup will be around $5,200. And the 144 volt 500 amp that should be out by Dec. will be at $6,000. These are ball park figures so these are not set prices.
 

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Just got off the phone from HPEV and was told they have not set a solid price yet but the word is the AC57 96 volt 650 amp setup will be around $5,200. And the 144 volt 500 amp that should be out by Dec. will be at $6,000. These are ball park figures so these are not set prices.
I just purchased the first Scott Drive water-cooled 300-450V 600A motor for $3500. The controller is $3600 but includes dc-dc and contactor.

I'll have them for display at EVCONN so everybody can check out the 'vapor' ware.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
By vapor ware do you mean nonexistent? Not good? :confused:
He is being sarcastic because when he first mentioned his bldc motor source people were hesitant to believe him. There are quite a few new motors out there that we the people can't get our hands on to verify or buy so yes those are vapor ware, doesn't mean anything to anyone if you can't get it, right?
Well now ruckus has a great opportunity to be rather successful once he provides data on the performance of these bldc motors. The ruckus bldc motors have a real potential to take market share from hpevs.
 

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Forgive my ignorance folks, bit new and in research mode. Where could I find more info on these BLDC motors/kits please. Only info I know is of the Scott Drive 100kw Trapezoidal motor/controller kit slated for poor cogging torque and low motor ratings and available only from GreenDrive in NZ.

Any advice/guidance available please?

Also, have wondered about one of these ac75s or even a cooled ac50 powered from a Wavesculpter 100kw controller (or similar) at higher voltage. HPEVS quotes somewhere these motors are rated to 200VAC (or maybe DC) which really broadens their possibilities. I like the idea of a 2 or 3 speed Powerglide auto to broaden the power delivery in a light-weight car (like the Miata in my garage begging me for some TLC!

Regards
Tyler
 

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I have been reading HPEV’s trouble shooting manuals and there seems to be a lot of stuff that can give problems or put a car dead alongside the road. As of late I have been wanting to swap out my ADC motor for an AC system. I have driven the DC for over 12 years and 40,000 miles trouble free and am wondering what I might be getting into. I have read the threads here about AC conversions but I would like to hear more from AC owners and hear what they like and dislike about there choice of motors.
 

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I have been reading HPEV’s trouble shooting manuals and there seems to be a lot of stuff that can give problems or put a car dead alongside the road. As of late I have been wanting to swap out my ADC motor for an AC system. I have driven the DC for over 12 years and 40,000 miles trouble free and am wondering what I might be getting into. I have read the threads here about AC conversions but I would like to hear more from AC owners and hear what they like and dislike about there choice of motors.
I have about 3 years and 21k miles on my AC50 with no problems with controller or motor. Very nice and reliable controller IMO. Easy to change parameters and datalog with the programming software. Not heard of any problems with them.
 

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Yes, sorry all. Am interested in both!

HPEVS AC question then, have any heard of these motors being run up to higher voltage, or is it not needed for AC like it is for DC? Thinking of ways to get more power without too much heat (current). Cooling these concerns me a little.

Thanks
 

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It's a new motor, so I doubt anyone has seen them in the flesh. The inverters that It's designed to run on are 144V (Not available yet) or 72-96V (1238-6501, 7601). These are lower voltage AC motors.

IIRC, they have some water cooling options coming up. Not sure if that is included on the AC-75, but I know that there's some motors in the works.
 

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The inverters that It's designed to run on are 144V (Not available yet) or 72-96V (1238-6501, 7601). These are lower voltage AC motors.
That's right. So if you like, they are "already overvoltaged" (really overfrequencied or overclocked). My feeling is that the controllers that they are designed for do not bring them to their full potential, so it may well be possible to get more peak power from them with higher voltage. Basically, by continuing the constant torque region to a higher motor speed.

These motors have typically been sold, at least initially, as part of a package with the inverter, so perhaps that's why no-one has tried them on higher voltage as yet. Plus, AC controllers for sub-500 VDC are not that common. You certainly can't just put a higher DC bus voltage into the Curtis controllers; their voltage limits are strict, and exceeding them is very likely to lead to failure, either instantly or via drastically reduced life and a dramatic death.
 

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...These motors have typically been sold, at least initially, as part of a package with the inverter, so perhaps that's why no-one has tried them on higher voltage as yet. Plus, AC controllers for sub-500 VDC are not that common. You certainly can't just put a higher DC bus voltage into the Curtis controllers; their voltage limits are strict, and exceeding them is very likely to lead to failure, either instantly or via drastically reduced life and a dramatic death.
I think no one has tried a higher voltage with them because the AC controllers available that would permit that cost more than people are willing to pay, e.g. Rinehart, Wave Sculptor. If they require that much torque and power they go with DC since it is much less costly. I think HPEVS squeezed in under the door with an AC pkg for $4500.

So if you like, they are "already overvoltaged" (really overfrequencied or overclocked). My feeling is that the controllers that they are designed for do not bring them to their full potential, so it may well be possible to get more peak power from them with higher voltage. Basically, by continuing the constant torque region to a higher motor speed.
The 144V (170 max) controller could be used with the present AC50 motor to extend peak torque out over 5000 rpm for higher power. The AC51 (I think Brian has the only one in existence in his Scion) is rewound for higher voltage, so has peak torque out to about 3k rpm with this controller. Both assuming max permissible pack voltage. But yes, the Curtis controllers are the limit. Even the higher voltage controller limits the motors in power. Figure about 148V sagged V (156V nominal) at peak 500A, and combined motor/controller max efficiency of 80% for about 80 H.P. shaft power limited by the controller - about the same as the present 7601, albeit at different motor rpm.
 

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Yes, I realised most get them as a package. I was only wondering as somewhere (on their website I think) it said all the stock motors were actually rated to 200V. And everyone has huge praise for these little motors and their performance, so I wondered whether the motors had ever been tested/pushed hard. I know current is limitted through them, wouldn't want to dump loads into one anyway, so the next step was since everyone seems to get roughly 100V/~500A AC into them in most instances, how they'd perform with twice the voltage (and hopefully very little difference in cooling issues) in the same applications. I'd expect near double the performance, probably more as you could increase your gear ratios and maximise benefit of the wider power band.

All speculation, and I'm no electrical engineer (mechanical actually...) but it follows simple logic as far as I can see.

Back to topic though, what do people know of this proposed 144V controller please? Is it a new Curtis controller? Why are Curtis not producing higher voltage controllers already, their software is so widely fplexible they'd still operate at the usual lower voltages no problem and not cost much more from what I can tell.

Also, the improved torque of the AC-75, is this due to the larger area/greater leverage radius of the larger motor, as the controller won't be pushing more amps that we're used to in AC50s etc will it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
It would be very interesting to see how an AC-50 or AC-75 would perform on a dyno with incrementally higher voltages, by using a Wavesculptor200.

100V 350A (35kw)
200V 350A (70kw)
300V 350A (105kw)
400V 350A (140kw)
 

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Yes Bowser, that is what I was thinking also. Not sure about 400V, but maybe the motors can handle it. I know they're well made. I'd be curious to try those voltages, maybe in 50V increments, with varying current up to 500amps to see any correlation between their torque output and voltage.

But then I can't afford any of that yet! But would love to hook a Wavesculpter to one of these. It'd be monumental on our illusive AC-75!

Ruckus

What of your AC drive sir? Any details? I was keen on the 100 kit until I learned of trapezoidal motors, what is this new setup?
 

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It was my understanding that the limited voltages are due to the availability/cost of the components needed to make a controller that operates in the 200V+ DC range. If they could make, say, a 250V 500a controller few would buy it if it cost $15k.
 
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