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Discussion Starter #1
ok so im going to start off by telling you my layout.

i have 12 12v batteries, six in the front, six in the back.

the six in the back arent connected to the batteries yet, but have ac lines wired up( all the chargers are)

i recently put my batteries in the front in( all in series) in place. but when i wired up each charger, + to the + of battery, - to the - of battery....ect untill all six were done. but when i plugged them in(one plug) they seemed to charge for about 5 seconds, then i heard a popping noise, and smoke came out of one of the charger...:confused:

there is no way that the ac lines are wired wrong, i checked them over three times, and even tested them before.

so i unplugged all the six front chargers from the batteries except 2 to see if they would work, but again charging for about 5-10 seconds, then smoke came from one of the two(i couldnt tell) but no popping noise this time( i quickly unplugged them when i smelt/saw the smoke).

i am very bummed out, and i have no clue what to do now, the chargers cost me 400$ and i am on a really tight budget so to have all the chargers wasted would be a disaster :(. the chargers are bolted upright under the hood ( the bolts holding them are on the plastic body to an aluminum angle so that shouldnt effect them)

now i was thinking what this could be, and i remembered that i was an idiot before, when i just got the chargers and i didnt know you could put batteries in series, and simply put each charger to each battery and i tried to put six chargers in series, and tried to charge six batteries in series with it. i remember that at one point, when i was seeing if it would charge, just like in the car, one of the chargers what looked like a capacitor blew( the top slits opened outwards). so i took that one aside and tried to charge a normal 12v battery with it, and it seemed to work( it charged for about 2 minutes, then showed the battery was full ( the batteries were new so it makes sense)

if anyone has any clue whats going on, or what troubleshooting i could do that would be great!:confused:


and just to be very clear, when i mean series the chargers( when i blew the cap on one of them) i mean there was a row of the six chargers, + to the - of the next one...ect ending with 2 wires.

and the current wiring in the car is six batteries in the front in series to get 72v, and each of the six chargers wired up normally to one of the six batteries. if anyone needs pics i can takea few tonight so let me know.

thanks
 

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if anyone needs pics i can takea few tonight so let me know.
Pictures would help. Also a link to the charger spec or manual. And also for the battery. Did you confirm the chargers were isolated (AC input to DC output)? And that each charger worked independently before wiring them together?
 

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the chargers are 2/4/6 amp AC delco chargers. i could get you a picture, but you would have to tell me specifically.

here is the only inormation i could find on the web about my chargers. i cought them from princess auto in canada. http://www.ultraparts.com.au/auction/2052705/BATTERY_CHARGER_AC_DELCO_3_STAGE_6_12VOLT_2_4_6AMP/

what do you mean if they are isolated?
Hi OMT,

Electrically isolated. Meaning opposite of electrically connected. A transformer is used to isolate. I see on that link it says "COMPLIES WITH AUSTRALIAN STANDARDS", so I would assume that it is isolated. Try looking up the concept for a better explanation. No offense, but this is pretty basic. And you are asking about building a controller on the other thread? You're going to have to learn some of the basics.

As far as the pictures; I might be able to see something where I can be of help, but need to see the wires. The more the better. Have you got a wiring diagram?

I have used modular charging where you have multiple 12V chargers on a series string of 12V batteries. It does work. But I do not know how you have it set up or much about the particular charger you are using.

Regards,

major
 

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Discussion Starter #5
i havent found any information about the charger at all, no concepts, no wiring diagrams...ect.

i would strongly prefer not installing the chargers in a modular setup in series.

i know this is very very basic stuff, which is why im baffled. i tested a few chargers with 2 batteries in series to make sure they worked, and it did. but for some reason they didnt like being put in series with many other chargers.


ill attempt to explain the basic wiring , because it would require alot of work to remove all the chargers just to get a picture underneath them:eek: (were the wires are located) and theres really not much too see.

ok so each two dc-out ends are put as they normally would be on each battery +,-. i cut the ac-in lines of each of the twelve chargers,then i got two isolated 3 prong electrical plugs and each plug was fitted with the cables of 6 chargers( one could not fit all the wires from the 12). so then i got a 3-Outlet Grounding Wall Tap, similar to this one:
http://www.summitsource.com/3outlet-grounding-wall-tap-adapter-ul-ac-120v-polarized-3-prong-steren-905110-converts-1-ac-to-3-ac-way-triple-3in1-with-grounding-spade-part-905110-p-8372.html

then i simply plugged in the two plugs from the twelve chargers on one end of the wall tap, and just plugged in a heavy duty extention cord on the male end and plugged in to the wall.

thanks for your interest in assisting me by the way.
 

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i havent found any information about the charger at all, no concepts, no wiring diagrams...ect.
Didn't the chargers come with instructions?

i would strongly prefer not installing the chargers in a modular setup in series.
O.K. So it is like we speak different language. Example: Let's define a few things. Your battery "pack" consists of six 12V "batteries" wired in series for a 72 volt system. So you have a 72V "pack". If you use a "pack" charger, that charger would charge the "pack" at 72V and have only 2 DC wires (+&-) which you connect to the "pack" + & -. That is PACK charging.

MODULAR charging is when you use six 12V chargers, one for each "battery". Each 12V charger DC output (+&-) is connected to a separate "battery" in the series string of 6 "batteries" which make up the "pack".

It is understood that the AC side of the battery charger(s) will plug into the wall outlet.

i know this is very very basic stuff, which is why im baffled. i tested a few chargers with 2 batteries in series to make sure they worked, and it did. but for some reason they didnt like being put in series with many other chargers.

ill attempt to explain the basic wiring , because it would require alot of work to remove all the chargers just to get a picture underneath them:eek: (were the wires are located) and theres really not much too see.
O.K. So I can't see what is going on. Yet you are in trouble. So here is my suggestion:

Remove 6 batteries and chargers. Set it up on a bench, or floor on cardboard. Start with one battery and one charger. See if it works. If it does, continue. Hook up a second charger to another battery. If it works, continue. Hook up the positive from battery 1 to the negative of battery 2. Test with both chargers on. If it works, continue. Connect a third charger to another battery. Test it by itself. If it works, connect positive of battery 2 to negative of battery 3 and test all 3 chargers at once. If it works, continue with battery #4 and so on, testing each battery and charger separately and then again after you wire the battery into the series string.

That will tell you where your problem is. If it works on the bench and not in the car, then you know something is amiss with the installation. If it doesn't work on the bench, then there is something peculiar with those chargers.

You can do a search on this site for modular charging and see several threads which discuss it and links to the EVDL where it has been discussed. You may also find example on a google search.

Modular charging is pretty basic. But it is possible that the particular chargers you chose for some reason will not support it. Something which worries me about them is that they automatically switch between 6 and 12 volts. I have not seen that in a charger. And also worrisome to me is the fact that you had a previous thread where you said you wired the chargers in series and then to the "pack". I wonder if you damaged the chargers doing that.

The bench test is a lot of work, but the only way I know to identify your problem. And then you can take a photo of it :)

major

ps....I just thought of something else. You say you have 6 batteries in the front and 6 in the back. You don't have the 72 volt packs connected in parallel, do you?
 

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Hey OMT,

Just thought of something. When I did modular charging, each charger DC positive wire had a fuse. I did not see where your chargers have a DC fuse. Later models of the Minn Kota modular chargers had a DC fuse in both the + & - wire to each battery. Whenever running wires from the high voltage battery pack in the car, you should have a proper fuse as near to the battery terminal as possible.

major
 

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Discussion Starter #8
yea, i have the two packs in parallel, but i have 2 contactors, one to cut electron flow to the controller, the other to seperate the two packs from being in parralel. both contactors go when you turn the ignition.

i really hope i didnt ruin some chargers when i tried putting them all in series. so i think im going to try them again tommorow, and simply remove the one(s) that dont work. im afraid i may have to buy a few more of those chargers, or i possible, remove, and re solder the blown cap... anyways ill post what i end up doing tommorow,thanks for the help
 

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if the charger that blew was one on the end of the series, then I think you exceeded the working voltage rating of some of the components. if it made a really nasty stink that was short lived, you probably burnt one of the bridges, if the stink lingers and is hard to remove then you fried a transformer (which means the charger wasn't isolated very well). I see you fried a cap. Get a new one with a higher WVDC of say about 250 VDC. the exact MMf shouldn't matter too much as it is just a ripple filter.

My $.02 YMMV
 

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Discussion Starter #10
so i had my go at the chargers today, and i removed the 3 that seemed to refuse to cooperate charging. i tested them seperately and found that 2 were completely dead, no led light on, no noises nothing. and one would turn on and show that it is charging a 6v, and a 12v battery, and when i put the voltmeter on the battery it was "charging" it rose from 12.82, 13.4,14.615.7,16.3!!! so i immediadely removed it from the extention cord.


so assuming they were all fried i took them all appart to get a batter look at the guts and it turns out that ALL THREE had a small gap were a bridge was. every charger had the gap of vapourized copper in the exact same place. mhmm

i am now proceeding to re solder the bridge and give it a second chance at life??

ill try and post a pic today soon. each charger cost me about 30$ :mad: and let me tell you 90$ is alot of money for a 17 year old working at mcdonalds :eek: so i will be very happy if i can get these stubborn chargers to work.
 
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