[Jason Lattimer]

O.K. sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I was wondering of anyone else has this problem. When it comes to promoting electric cars, I have found there is an abnormally large group of people (not necessarily Republican), who are just downright hostile toward EVs. Unfortunately two of them happen to be both father and father in law.

Even when confronted with obvious facts about electric cars they seem to want to remain ignorant. Does anyone else have this problem, and how did you solve it. More importantly, why are people so hostile toward electrics? I just don't understand.

 

[Jan]

Just hit. So they associate negative remarks about electricity with pain.

 

[JRoque]

Just hit. So they associate negative remarks about electricity with pain.

Now we're talking! Good one, Jan.

I believe it's a comfort zone thing for many. Even if cars started out being electric, they've been ICEd for so long that EV nowadays are a paradigm shift. Most people were brought up knowing nothing but gas, oil, dirt and horrendously complex and inefficient ICE machines. But they can open up an engine and point to the components and remark on what they do. With an EV, there's the battery, an electric motor and an unknown, non-moving black box called "the controller". Very few people would even dare open their controller, let alone point to what the parts do. And as the old adage goes, "fear what you don't understand".

Other reasons include the active propaganda by oil companies and ICE car makers. Why would they be so eager to loose the hugely profitable business of hooking you up on break/fix parts cycle? You know, oil/fuel/air filters, belts, pumps, all kinds of different fluids, and the all so accepted "maintenance" at x number of miles. My Ford Expedition is up for one of the maintenance points and the dealer already told me it'll be around $1,500. Why would they quit lining their pockets like that? No reason, so they spread fear and doubt by, for example, creating a really nice electric car and then destroying it a few years later because it was not "feasible". Or making a car that's still driven by an ICE but has an anemic electric drive on the side so they can call it "electric". Yeah it's an electric but you still need to change oil, filters, belts, etc and still have to bring it in for those required maintenance work. It serves to underline their view that EVs are just not ready for prime time.

From a very young age I've been saying that my kids would laugh at us when we tell them how our cars worked. The only thing saving ICE technology is the lucky fact that gasoline has such a high energy density. But don't worry, cells will get there soon.

JR

 

[Jason Lattimer]

You are on to something. I am afraid only time with more and more electrics on the road will change society's mind in general.

 

[PhantomPholly]

When the purchase prices reaches near-parity with ICE and you can tell them "you'll save $1500 / yr in gasoline", then they'll finally get it.

People (about 90% or more) do not like change, and for good reason. More "improvements" turn out to be disasters, and even the ones that aren't disasters often do not make a material difference in our lives. So, whenever you talk about "change" most folks figure you're trying to sell them something and tune out.

Hitting does work, though...

 

[poprock]

Hi; I have had the same sceptical attitudes displayed by friends who in every other sense are very logical people. I have stopped verbal replies, and now I have two methods of getting my point across:- 1; take them for a drive in the car, then refuse to show them how it works. 2; If the situation allows, I get in my little dyna hybrid and take off with electric power while they're anticipating a diesel motor start-up. If they change their attitude then yes, by all means I explain it to them. But with some this old saying holds true:- "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still "

 

[aeroscott]

I run into this everywhere . There has been open war for more then 2000 years by people holding and withholding knowledge . Religion and politics mixed together "god put your leaders hear and god made rich men to do his bidding and handle/control the poor masses" . But a little study of how these people came to power ,theft and war. but more to your point war on thinking people or people thinking differently . what have our leaders cut from education recently science and history in order to give more time to pass the all important test for ranking .I am amazed that the spirit of free thinking is as prevalent/pervasive as it is . I get tired of fighting against " the way I learned it " or "I don't like to learn anything new".

 

[GrapeApe]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Ronald Regan Republican !

and most my friends are too. Please don't mention those Bush "New World Order" guys; they are in bed with Algore. Yes, there are Nut Jobs and Ignorant people on all sides of this planet. But I digress (and I will try to come up with a coherent rant for the global warming forum soon lolol). Today I'm a registered Libertarian and walk the middle path

ALL our representatives on both sides of the isle want the taxes of Gas to continue and they don't know how to tax solar chargers of other free energy, like on demand hydrogen units... yet, so they try to beat down new ideas; that's nothing new. Lib's & Conserv's alike are just as damaging to the environment. I remember an ad campaign to promote "Natural Fit Jordash Jeans". Stone washed comfort fit for the natural family, with a photo of a family in Yellowstone Park. Ummmmm. anything wrong with this picture?? Only that Stone Washed jeans are washed in pumice strip mined from the side of an extinct volcano! Turn the pockets inside out at the store and watch granules of volcanic ash fall from the seams. All sales pitch; All B.S.! (and you thought YOU could rant hahaha). Point being that... bringing political parties into your personal life will just give you heartburn 24/7 and everyone in Washington D.C. is out to get us!

So let's just stick to outsmarting them all...

The best way to get the point across is to mention 300 miles per gallon equivalent on the cost of operation for gasoline. This includes no oil changes or spark plugs or air filters etc. I am building an EV to tow behind my motor home. When I park or camp, I can run the car to the store, short trips, like to the view points of the Grand Canyon or around Arches Nat'l Park. Plug in and charge with the 'hook ups' at the parking spot overnight or charge as I drive.

On the motor home I have two 2 quart Mason jars converted into hydrogen generators, plus a good old fashioned water mister into the air cleaner, bringing the fuel consumption down from 8-10MPG to 17-20MPG on a 25 ft. Class-A 440/727 Dodge truck chassis. Savings grabs EVERYONES attention. It's like cutting $4/gal down to $2/gal in a heartbeat.

When you show by example how you drive by gas stations and wave at your family while they fork out $60 fill-ups in a foreign "economy" car, you will have the last laugh.

Besides, who the heck cares what they think? What are you building the car for???

• show everyone in the world that they suck?
• get a write up in Popular Mechanics?
• sneak up on the deer you are planning to run over?
• save the planet?
• Save your self a ton of money so you can buy more toys!

I vote the last one lol... screw non believers, okay? Your not a preacher (are you??). No one ever won a soul with talk talk talk... only with living your faith and some will ask you how you do it. Drive your EV, laugh and be carefree and people will come to YOU!~

end of Rant

 

[Duncan]

Hi Ape

On the motor home I have two 2 quart Mason jars converted into hydrogen generators, plus a good old fashioned water mister into the air cleaner, bringing the fuel consumption down from 8-10MPG to 17-20MPG on a 25 ft. Class-A 440/727 Dodge truck chassis. Savings grabs EVERYONES attention. It's like cutting $4/gal down to $2/gal in a heartbeat.

Goodbye credibility!

 

[Jason Lattimer]

Hopefully I can get this done so I can indeed, "wave at family members as they fork out 60 dollars or more for tank of gas"

Only when they see things like this in person will anybody be convinced that the technology not only works, but is better use in practice than an IC engine.

 

[idarusskie]

people are skeptical because range and speed ( because of the battery bank) are lacking.

 

[JRoque]

people are skeptical because range and speed ( because of the battery bank) are lacking.

They should think that the shuttle Discovery travels at 17K MPH and goes to the edge of space and back. But not everyone needs one of those. Most of us are happy with a few miles travel of the poky 600 MPH commercial flights.

Some of us are waiting for when EVs have a huge range before jumping in. If we thought like that for everything we would have never adopted mobile phones and the likes. How many people are kicking themselves for buying the iPad one now that V2 is twice the speed and have tons of new features? But if no one had bought the first iPad, the improved version wouldn't have seen the light of day. EVs are practical now and will only get better over time.

JR

 

[GrapeApe]

Only when they see things like this in person ...

exaaaaaaaactly lol

and that was the point of my rant. everyone should just build their own vehicles up and live life to it's fullest and not try to convert others along the way. it never works (very well).

and I see there are non-believers even here

Sorry Duncan, my rant was about politics and religion, not rocket science. Being almost 50, I'm too old to fight. I will say I have become an acquaintance of Mr. Freedom at water4gas.com as he lives a few miles from me and I was converted to a HHO man long before finding all the EV stuff on the net. We put our first generator on a Datsun SPL311 and took the mileage from 30 to 46 MPG. The 1976 440 with the 800 CFM Thermoquad got it next. The last touch was to add the H2O mister that I had sitting in the box for years, it's a 70's thing. Ask any old fart with a camper and a fishing boat about them. I do have to drive the truck at 50 MPH (80 km/h) to get the best mileage. Anything over 60 and i drops like a rock. I wish it took more than my motor home to destroy my credibility, but it seems people who drive with me on fishing trips and help pay the gas bill are the only people I have to prove anything to. They know first hand that the cost of gas for the motor home is the same as their 4 or 6 cylinder sedans. But wasn't that the point of Jason's post? Convincing non-believers? lmao

It's easy then... don't read my replies, yeah? Yer not the first doofy wombat ta doubt the Grape One... my self confidence and 34 years wrenching and experimenting with ICE's and dyno-tuning and schooling under a GM engineer, let's me say... g'day mate

 

[Duncan]

Hi Ape

Yer not the first doofy wombat ta doubt the Grape One... my self confidence and 34 years wrenching and experimenting with ICE's and dyno-tuning and schooling under a GM engineer, let's me say... g'day mate

I raise you

Being over 50 and having 30+ years experience in automotive injection system development I am incredibly skeptical about HHO claims

(1) They break the laws of thermodynamics

(2) I know just how much development engineers would "pay" for a 1% increase in efficiency (grandmothers come to mind)

(3) I know just how much apparent reduction in fuel consumption can come from an air leak


Eur. Ing. Duncan M Cairncross BScMechEng. CEng, FIMechE, MFEANI, MIPENZ, DMS

 

[poprock]

Re: Ignorant People-Hydrogen

Mr Moderator; Could you please not let this degenerate into another HHO forum? Been there , done that , now an EVer. If I wanted to see HHO posts I would go to a HHO website!

 

[GrapeApe]

Re: Ignorant People-Hydrogen

Mr Moderator; Could you please not let this degenerate into another HHO forum? Been there , done that , now an EVer. If I wanted to see HHO posts I would go to a HHO website!

thank you poprock! good idea. what was I thinking getting caught up in this derail>??

Mr. Moderator; could you please not let this degenerate into another insult forum where lives ex IRC trolls. I do not appreciate having someone quote something I said and add "Goodbye credibility" I think that falls under inflammatory attack. Doesn't this place have IM's where people can have a disagreement off thread? I've been on AOL, IRC, facebook, myspace, wireclub. Been there done that, now someone who shares information as an example to the person I was replying to at the top of the topic; the topic creator. If I wanted my reply to be insulted and the thread hyjacked with a personal attack, I'd go back to IRC and live with Trolls!

ahh, there... I feel better now...


Grape Ape, average guy with dandruff, dumbass trucker with a motor home that gets the same mileage as his Nissan Frontier XL. High School diploma, home owner (bad plumbing [the home, not the owner]), housekeeper to 3 cats.

 

[HighTech]

Sadly, those who are ignorant will pay $100 dollars to fill up their tank and a week later they are eating moldy bread.

However, they will be searching the Internet for ideas to save gas and eventually they wind up here at this site looking to build an electric car.
=)

When a tank of gas costs more than a set of batteries, people will be looking to build electric cars. Even find people to build them for them. (Those that still have money that is.) Others will be looking for Joe the shade tree mechanic ideas on how to build a cheap EV with second hand parts.

Never feel bad when people put down an EV. Keep a smile and wish them well at the gas pumps. =)

 

[Duncan]

Hi Ape

Mr. Moderator; could you please not let this degenerate into another insult forum where lives ex IRC trolls. I do not appreciate having someone quote something I said and add "Goodbye credibility" I think that falls under inflammatory attack.

Simple solution - don't say silly things!

Say something silly and there are people in this forum who will call you on it!

 

[JRoque]

Or maybe pointing out to articles like this one on eBay might persuade someone to your point: http://reviews.ebay.com/Hydrogen-Generator-Economy-Device-SCAMS_W0QQugidZ10000000005261775

There's an awful lot of finger wagging around here. On the flip side of that, this is the chit-chat section where idea (read: not people) bashing is generally more tolerated. Happy bashing!

Getting back to the main topic, one thing I don't subscribe to is the flashy, loud and obnoxious "LOOK!! MY CAR IS ELECTRIC" signage on some EVs. I know we like to get the point across but I think something more subtle on the car - and maybe a punch in the face - could be better received. I like those shiny "electric" signs they sell for EVs

JR

 

[Jason Lattimer]

Sadly, those who are ignorant will pay $100 dollars to fill up their tank and a week later they are eating moldy bread.

However, they will be searching the Internet for ideas to save gas and eventually they wind up here at this site looking to build an electric car.
=)

When a tank of gas costs more than a set of batteries, people will be looking to build electric cars. Even find people to build them for them. (Those that still have money that is.) Others will be looking for Joe the shade tree mechanic ideas on how to build a cheap EV with second hand parts.

Never feel bad when people put down an EV. Keep a smile and wish them well at the gas pumps. =)

I agree totally. I just hope I can get my car built looooooong before gas reaches that point. When they realize my electric bill does not go up nearly as much as they pay for a single tank of gas and range is not an issue, then they will change their mind.