[frodus]

sounds like they have some issues with their higher voltage controller.....

I just don't like the fact that they don't have an isolated controller (where the lower voltage part is actually isolated internally from the power side).

as long as you fuse the 144V system right, and the 12V system right, you should be fine. It sounds like something inside the controller.

 

[F16bmathis]

You know... Thinking back on it, when I had the controller connected to the trucks 12V system, I never did have a chance to drive it. So, fuses will be installed and I'll try it again, once I get a controller.

Thanks,

Brian

 

[adric22]

In all 3 cases, I could never go faster than 25mph, pulls about 50 amps at best, and 25 as an average over 19 miles.

I'm curious.. When you say this happened in all 3 cases, do you mean you could never pull more than 50 amps the entire time you had the controller, even when it was working. Or do you mean you could only pull 50 amps after it blew?

 

[F16bmathis]

The first one blew before I could drive it. When the controllers were working, yes, I could only pull about 50 amps. When they fried, I didn't try hooking them up and driving! Thats when I removed the controllers ground from the truck in any form, used rubber sheet to isolate the controller from the mount, used an industrial heeat sink.

The next two drove, about 25 mph, and once I saw 90 or so amps, but I was probably going downhill in first gear. When starting, the controller only put out 50 amps max, which slowly decreased to 25-30 then less as I went back uphill. And thats in first gear. Other gears had no acceleration.

When I get another controller, I'll connect the 12V to the trucks ground and NOT short the 144V system to the trucks ground, and test drive that.

When the controller shorted, the truck was on jacks, went full speed in third gear, till I pulled the main off. It spit sparks/flame at the firewall. Had I not been on jacks, it would have possibly killed the guy standing in front, and ran through my garage and killed my 68 Firebird!

 

[adric22]

When the controllers were working, yes, I could only pull about 50 amps.

Okay.. I was wondering because I have a Kelly controller too (the 72 volt version) and I have NEVER been able to pull 600 amps, which it is rated at. You'll probably see I just posted another post about this topic. The most I've ever seen is about 300 amps, and usually it is close to 250 amps at full throttle.

Something happened this morning and the car is running very slow and I can't pull more than about 100 amps or so. Not sure why just yet. So I was thinking it was a controller issue.

 

[F16bmathis]

I don't know. The kellycontroller.com shows the 72V being a 300 amp controller, and like my 500 amp, you'll probably never see that. I was told to expect 250-300 amps at best, 500 would be a less than a minute before it overheated.

I looked at a blog Steven from Kellycontroller.com wrote, and he said to make sure the trucks ground and the controllers ground are connected. I'm going to fuse it, and when I get a controller, I'll test drive it. He also said not to short the HV battery pack to the trucks ground, otherwise you would short out the controller.

Currently they have my fried controller, and have not sent back any e-mail or a controller as of a couple days ago. Up to now, they've been more than helpful in getting me new controllers to fry, but I'm having problems with them answering if the controllers power should come from the truck, the HV battery pack, or a totally seperate second 12V battery.

How are your grounds and power connected?

 

[VDubber]

Just curious - what are you Kelly guys doing for cooling of the controllers?

Perhaps there is a heat issue, as they are supposed to cut back the amps as the switching silicon get hot.

 

[adric22]

I don't know. The kellycontroller.com shows the 72V being a 300 amp controller, and like my 500 amp, you'll probably never see that. I was told to expect 250-300 amps at best, 500 would be a less than a minute before it overheated.

Yes, they told me the same thing. However, I've talked with an engineer at D&D Motor and they sell Alltrax controllers. I told him about my experience and he said that if a controller is advertised as a 450 amp controller, then it should pull 450 amps from the battery pack and deliver that much to the motor. When I told him about my Kelly he said "It sounds like they are selling a 300 amp controller and labeling it as a 600."

How are your grounds and power connected?[/quote]

My ground on the controller is the same as the main battery pack. I'm simply tapping off of 24V to power the controller. But that is how the wiring diagram that came with mine said to do it. So I don't have the issue you are describing.

As for heat.. Can't be. My controller rarely even gets warm. (another reason I think it isn't pulling the amps as advertised). I have it mounted to a large heatsink using thermal grease, but I don't think it even needs it. Besides, this issue that started on me this morning where it has about 50% power (or less) was when the car had sat overnight. It should have been nice and cool.

 

[TheSGC]

It almost sound like the programming failed and it dropped from it's 600 AMP setting to the lowest possible. Like bad EEPROM or something. I would try to reset the whole controller and then reprogram it.

 

[frodus]

Sounds like Kelly isn't Derating the internal components of the controller at all.

They may be able to handle spikes of 600A, but I've yet to hear a controller actually making it to the 1 min 600A rating.

 

[adric22]

They may be able to handle spikes of 600A, but I've yet to hear a controller actually making it to the 1 min 600A rating.

Can you clarify here. When you say that, are you talking about Kelly Controllers, or any brand of controller in general?

 

[frodus]

Can you clarify here. When you say that, are you talking about Kelly Controllers, or any brand of controller in general?

My appologies....
I haven't heard a kelly controller reach the 600A mark yet....

 

[VDubber]

Sounds like Kelly isn't Derating the internal components of the controller at all.

They may be able to handle spikes of 600A, but I've yet to hear a controller actually making it to the 1 min 600A rating.

This may explain the vast price difference... eh?

If one relabels the controllers with 1/2 - 2/3 the amperage rating, then the prices fall right in line with other brands:

Zilla Z2K-HV = $8/Kw (!!!)
Zilla Z1K-LV = $12/Kw
Alltrax 7245 = $18/Kw
TSE 600-96 = $19/Kw
Curtis 1231C = $22/Kw
Curtis 1221C = $24/Kw
Curtis 1209B = $26/Kw

Derated Kelly KDH09600 = $24/Kw
Derated Kelly KDH14500 = $27/Kw

EDIT: Hey! That's a nice little list. I never thought of them that way (power for your dollar). I think I may just get a TSE 600-96, since it is the lowest per Kw for the 96V controllers and my motor could never use even half the power of a Zilla Z1K (making it around $24/Kw for me).

 

[norrislte]

A possible reason for lack of current is internal motor resistance.
Voltage = Current x Resistance,
or,
Voltage / Resistance = Current,
or,
Voltage / Current = Resistance

Use the equation above based upon the 2 known values.

So, depending upon battery pack voltage (and sag), Motor resistance (and wiring resistance as well), this could limit current.

I believe that copper has a positive Temperature coefficient (resistance goes up with temperature), so temperature of the motor will also have an effect.

 

[F16bmathis]

Well, I just got back from meeting with Steven from Kellycontrollers.com/ tech service guy. He gave me a fourth controller, sat down and chatted some.

The controller is suppossed to be connected to the 12v truck battery, it is internally connected to the 144v negative, a dc-dc converter is preferred. In the diagram it says do not connect the 144v to the trucks ground, but what they mean is just that. You DO connect the 12v truck power and ground to the controller.

I have the fourth controller in, powered by the trucks 12v system, no dc-dc converter. Still waiting for it. The truck pulled 200 amps in first, after using the calibration program, tried all the seetings, but the 115 setting worked best. When I get time later, I'll test it for max speed.

 

[roguesoul]

Hey Brian,
So your 4th controller is working? Are you able to drive at a slow speed like 5mph? The reason I ask is, on your schematic it looks like 5v goes from the controller through a resistor and directly back into the controller, completely bypassing the pot throttle.

So did you go to Illinois and meet with Steven at Kelly? They really have taken care of you haven't they? Where the first three controllers bad or was wiring the problem? Aside from the accidental short?

Kevin

 

[VDubber]

I notice there is no provision for a precharge in your diagram Brain. Was this not drawn, or are you not running one?

No precharge + HV usually results in blown and fried controllers...

 

[F16bmathis]

I have the controller set up for 5v to 0v. It is wired and I measured and it starts at 5v and goes to 0v. The first controller was wired right, but I didn't know it was internally wired b- to trucks ground, so I shorted the batt pack unwillingly. The other 2 were re-wires to not have trucks ground and 144v pack together which is wrong!

I do have a precharge resistor, guess I'll have to show it.

Brian

 

[Sunelectro]

I would connect the Kelly to the trash can, We have had several failures, one kelly failed after 14 months of service by self destructing, one attempted suicide by attempting a full power dash into traffic after 9 months of service. These are unreliable, controllers that will get you in trouble. For a low end controller try a Curtis, we have never had a problem.

I am installing one of the new Solution 1 1200 Amp controllers now, it seems to be a well thought out piece of gear, more on how it runs later.