[Passedyouby]

Good morning!

I am working on programing my kelly controller to my ME1616 and have a few issues.

I was able to do the initial setup and the motor runs great, but am struggling to find a breakdown of what each setting in the software does. Everything is just an acronym and I'm worried about making the wrong changes.

Example- there is an adjustment that says max battery. The default is 50. Is this a 50amp peak draw? 50A continuous? 50% of some other number in a different box? Idk!

More or less. Does anyone have a programing acronym cheat sheet or something along those lines? Maybe a suggestion of key things they have adjusted on their controllers, etc.

Thanks all!

 

[_GonZo_]

I made some videos about how to program Kelly KLS controllers, Hope they help you.
If not, just ask about where are you struggling...
You can find them here:

 

[Passedyouby]

I made some videos about how to program Kelly KLS controllers, Hope they help you.
If not just ask about where are you struggling...
You can find them here:

You are awesome!! THANK YOU! I have the bluetooth module only, not the laptop connection, but this is exactly that I needed. Watching part 2 right now

 

[_GonZo_]

The connection Bluetooth or USB to the controller does not really matter because the programming is the same.

 

[Dcoxryton]

Good morning!

I am working on programing my kelly controller to my ME1616 and have a few issues.

I was able to do the initial setup and the motor runs great, but am struggling to find a breakdown of what each setting in the software does. Everything is just an acronym and I'm worried about making the wrong changes.

Example- there is an adjustment that says max battery. The default is 50. Is this a 50amp peak draw? 50A continuous? 50% of some other number in a different box? Idk!

More or less. Does anyone have a programing acronym cheat sheet or something along those lines? Maybe a suggestion of key things they have adjusted on their controllers, etc.

Thanks all!

Hi Passedyouby

I am using the Kelly KLS 72701 8080ips and a ME1302. Your motor might have different motor parameters.
I'm using this on a dirt bike. A lot of emails back and forth with Fany at Kelly support.
Gonzo's first video is a real good start. I don't know how to best get all my info to you in the easiest fashion. I'll include my most current settings. And the Map chart
At these settings I have one main issue still, it appears to Overcurrent when I go full throttle at a very low rpm. It is worse when I use Map 80, and only occasionally when I use Map 50.
If you have any detailed questions just ask.

Hope to be able help.
Don

 

[_GonZo_]

it appears to Overcurrent when I go full throttle at a very low rpm. It is worse when I use Map 80, and only occasionally when I use Map 50

That value is in order to create what is usually called a "throttle curve" it varies how much power the motor will deliver in relation with the throttle position.
You can have a linear "curve" when it is at 50, exponential when it is over 50 and logarithmic when it is under 50.
It is up to your likes, your vehicle characteristics, motor power, motor characteristics, etc. to set it up one way to another.
I usually set it up an exponential curve, in order to have more control in low/medium speeds. Unless it is a low powered vehicle that then a logarithmic curve is usually better. And sometimes depending in throttle, motor and other characteristics it can be very different than this.
Start driving with a linear curve and test one and the other way and leave it where you feel more confortable.

I do not understand what you mean when you say "it appears Overcurrent", you mean at the controller?
If so, that means that the motor is asking for more current that the controller is set up to give. Nothing to worry, the controller is limiting the current in order to avoid motor damage.

 

[Passedyouby]

Hi Passedyouby

I am using the Kelly KLS 72701 8080ips and a ME1302. Your motor might have different motor parameters.
I'm using this on a dirt bike. A lot of emails back and forth with Fany at Kelly support.
Gonzo's first video is a real good start. I don't know how to best get all my info to you in the easiest fashion. I'll include my most current settings. And the Map chart
At these settings I have one main issue still, it appears to Overcurrent when I go full throttle at a very low rpm. It is worse when I use Map 80, and only occasionally when I use Map 50.
If you have any detailed questions just ask. View attachment 121749 View attachment 121749 View attachment 121749 View attachment 121750 View attachment 121751 View attachment 121752 View attachment 121753

Hope to be able help.
Don

Thank you very much Don! This is wonderful as well.

Been in a standstill on programming as I had a few mechanical "hiccups" but should have those resolved and back to software questions tonight

 

[Passedyouby]

Quick question-

On one image I see motor current 80, and on another image I see normal current percent, 100%. Can you explain the differences here?

I understand the 100% means the controller will run at 100% of its rated capacity, but what's the 80amps setting for then?

Also, ignoring efficiency losses- is 100A being pulled from the battery equate to 100A being put into the motor? I wasnt sure if the Ac/DC conversion does something wierd with how that is calculated. Logically I would assume the same, but I can talk myself into stating those numbers would be different.

 

[Dcoxryton]

The MOTOR CURRENT on the motor page, (the pages aren't defined real well on the Android BT app as well as the PC app. The BT app works better than the PC app for me.) is 80 , and this is really only used for the for Identification Angle. 80 is for smaller motors, and higher should be used for larger motors. here is the excerpt from the manual.

4.2 Step 2
(1)Motor Nominal Curr:When the controller is doing identification angle operation without load
on the motor shaft,there is a current requirement for identification operation.If the motor rated
power is very high,please increase this parameter to a higher value.Otherwise please keep it at
80 by default.If the motor power is very low such as hundreds of watts,please reduce this
parameter to lower value to match the low power motor for identification angle operation.

I tried a higher number at the track trying to resolve my problem, but it had no effect, and after I read the above, I knew why.
The CURRENT PERCENT is the Controller Current output.

(3)Current Percent: Phase Current Percent. Range: 20~100
Functional description: The max motor current is (The Value * Peak Current of the Controller).
Suggestion: Factory default is 100%.

My motor should be able to carry 660A, at the setting of 100% I am telling the controller to give me 700A. According to my current meter, I am not getting close to that. But no where do you put in what the motor max is, and it would take that much current, but would overheat if you ran at that for any time.

Now some answers to GonZo's questions. My application is a motocross bike, and I am trying to emulate the throttle response and rideability of the ALTA Electric Dirt Bike. I went to the MAP80 curve to get faster power out of the turns and up jump faces, but it was too much with my gearing ( it would just light the tire up). Since torque is so high at low rpms, I increased the countershaft sprocket by 2 teeth, from a 12 to a 14. It worked great, but now the " Over current Fault". I think it is an over current fault, since I can't look at a fault code, while I am riding, and the fault clears itself in a second or 2. But you cannot ride aggressive with the motor dropping out like that. I have asked Kelly to store faults with a time stamp, but they won't listen to that.
But listening to what you are saying, maybe it is going over its limit, and that is why it is faulting. I had been running it at 50% Current Percent, when I had limited amps from my battery system ( about 400AMPs) it didn't get this fault, but now I have theoretically 630AMPs from the battery, maybe if I go to 80% it would not fault if I ask for 560AMPs, it's in it's range and the battery can provide that and the motor can take it. I will try that this weekend.
I wish the Android, Bluetooth app would work on the PC. The presentation is much better on the PC, but I had such a hard time getting the USB/ serial connection to connect 2 times in a row. Very flaky. But the Android, Bluetooth system is so much better.
Thanks for the ideas, GonZo, I'll let you know how it works out.

 

[_GonZo_]

Since torque is so high at low rpms, I increased the countershaft sprocket by 2 teeth, from a 12 to a 14. It worked great, but now the " Over current Fault"

Electric motors like to work at high rpms so better go back the the 12 teeth sprocket, will be more efficient, will limit the current peaks, you will have more available torque, and will have more range.
If acceleration is too high then change the PID control values to reduce it.

According to my current meter, I am not getting close to that.

A normal current meter will not give you the peak current values, that trust me they can be extremely high.

I had been running it at 50% Current Percent, when I had limited amps from my battery system ( about 400AMPs) it didn't get this fault, but now I have theoretically 630AMPs from the battery, maybe if I go to 80% it would not fault if I ask for 560AMPs,

The current limits are in order to protect the battery, motor, and controller.
By experience, better put them right, else something will damage, in short or long term.
Something that you have to take in account as well is that the battery BMS has an over-current protection as well, and it can be triggering up as well.

 

[Dcoxryton]

Electric motors like to work at high rpms so better go back the the 12 teeth sprocket, will be more efficient, will limit the current peaks, you will have more available torque, and will have more range.
If acceleration is too high then change the PID control values to reduce it.


A normal current meter will not give you the peak current values, that trust me they can be extremely high.


The current limits are in order to protect the battery, motor, and controller.
By experience, better put them right, else something will damage, in short or long term.
Something that you have to take in account as well is that the battery BMS has an over-current protection as well, and it can be triggering up as well.

Gonzo, thanks for the ideas.
1st, I think I will go back to the 12 tooth front sprocket, and reduce the PID?? I think they are the Ki and Kp settings.

2nd, I am trying to get a current recording system set up. I have a Hall sensor that gives 4V for 400A, and put this to a recording Volt meter, so I can chart the current. I have a friend I ride with a lot who has 3 Alta's. So that is my benchmark I am trying to achieve. I have the same battery capacity, controller and motor to get 50HP as the Alta. It uses higher voltage and lower current, higher RPM, different ratios, but it is still 50HP. The Kelly just doesn't give the smooth power band that the Alta has, yet. I am a little frustrated that it is not performing. The feel at the handlebar is that I don't get over 270Amps of power. With my 3 packs, I can get 190A, (1 pack), 270A, 2 packs and it should be about 380A), and 270A , ( 3 packs and it should be about 570A). And at the handlebars, on asphalt, 1 pack is a little slower, 2 packs is a bit more, and 3 packs is the same as 2 packs.

3rd, I have a BMS on all three packs, but it is only used for charging, so it is not dropping the power off, and all three packs would have to do that at the same time.
The cut out I get is under max throttle, it just stops for a few seconds and back on. No power Off/On, or throttle Off/on. But it is not a good thing going up a jump face... I can reduce it to almost zero by setting the "Current Percentage" in the Controller to 80%, but power is down. I will try the Ki and Kp ( but those really brought the power up)
One of my cut outs I had was Hall Sensor Error, and the power would have to be powered on off , quickly, and it worked ok again. This would post an error if I stopped and hooked up thru the bluetooth and look at it. Power off/ on and the error went away, not stored for future troubleshooting. Then I have a Regen braking switch on the clutch side. This is a Ebike brake switch only to enable Regen, set at 10% at "BRK_SW Brk per%" ( in the controller pictures earlier in the Blog). I think I have raised it to 20 or 30% now, but I noticed in riding in the Desert if that handle hit a bush, it would kill the throttle, and would only come back if I returned the throttle to off and back on, no need to power Off/On

Thanks for the ideas, and I will try them, and report back.

Don ( I am Maico4 on the Endless-Sphere forum. I should have used the same name on all forums. It is DonCox on the Alta Owners Forum)

 

[Dcoxryton]

Quick question-

On one image I see motor current 80, and on another image I see normal current percent, 100%. Can you explain the differences here?

I understand the 100% means the controller will run at 100% of its rated capacity, but what's the 80amps setting for then?

Also, ignoring efficiency losses- is 100A being pulled from the battery equate to 100A being put into the motor? I wasnt sure if the Ac/DC conversion does something wierd with how that is calculated. Logically I would assume the same, but I can talk myself into stating those numbers would be different.

Just a quick answer on your last question. Here is some data from a ME1302 motor, I couldn't find it on the ME1507 or ME1616, but I would imagine the ratio will stay pretty constant, because it is the conversion from a single DC Amps going into the controller and 3 Phase AC Amps going out of the controller.

Current: 180 Amps AC continuous (220 Amps DC into the motor control)
Peak current: 480 Amps AC for 1 minute (660 Amps DC into the motor control)

 

[_GonZo_]

Gonzo, thanks for the ideas.
1st, I think I will go back to the 12 tooth front sprocket, and reduce the PID?? I think they are the Ki and Kp settings.

The PID settings are the ones that control how the motor gets to the desired speed/torque (set by the throttle), how fast (acceleration) and how it maintains it (speed/torque accuracy)
So they influence in how the power is delivered, but it does not reduce or increase the motor power.
If the acceleration is too abruptly to handle you can reduce the PID numbers.
Try to reduce about a 10% each one at a time and test. Do not recommend to reduce them more than 25% than factory values.

The Kelly just doesn't give the smooth power band that the Alta has, yet.

There is more setting that you can tweak in order to smooth the ride:
"Accel Time" It is similar to the PID control but in relation to time instead of throttle position. Not recommended to set a zero value here.
"TPS Fwd MAP" Here you can create a throttle curve (Speed/Torque) in relation with the throttle position.
You can make the motor run like a marble on glass with this controller but it takes time to set it all correctly. That is why engineers get paid for...

it would kill the throttle, and would only come back if I returned the throttle to off and back on, no need to power Off/On

You can enable/disable that function at "Brake H-Pedal" field.

 

[_GonZo_]

The feel at the handlebar is that I don't get over 270Amps of power. With my 3 packs, I can get 190A, (1 pack), 270A, 2 packs and it should be about 380A), and 270A , ( 3 packs and it should be about 570A). And at the handlebars, on asphalt, 1 pack is a little slower, 2 packs is a bit more, and 3 packs is the same as 2 packs.

As per your information your setup is able to give those 50HP and provably more.
But you have to take in consideration the following: A light motorbike can go over 100Km/h on flat with less than 5HP so the motor is not going to ask for more power from the controller, because it does not need it, even if it is available.
The only moment you are going to be asking to the controller/battery/motor for so high power is on accelerations at climbing, and you already said that you are not able to handle so much acceleration/power. So the problem is not the motor/controller/battery delivering power because it is already delivering more than the vehicle/driver can handle.

 

[MathisLaurant]

hey guys,
I am have a very similar problem as Dcoxryton. I have a GSXR conversion (instagram @hariimao_) and I am using Nissan leaf cells 24s for 100.8v max, a kelly 96v ips 8080, and an ME1302 motor. At low speeds and High torque demand it cuts out on me. It almost got me killed once at a stop light and trying to overtake a stalled car... I've been changing the setting and parameters for over a year trying to solve it. I thought it was my BMS, but ran it around my "test route" without the BMS and still cut out. So I know it was the controller. Also I cannot do a simple burnout with the motorcycle it just stalls. it seem like there is some internal limit on the controller from 0 to 100 rpm that I cannot access.

I am curious if you got your settings sorted out if you would be willing to share? i suspect is it my motor and battery limits. right now i have it set both at 75%, any higher and the inverter cuts out even more. if i had a dyno i could probably figure this out...

thanks

 

[Dcoxryton]

Get rid of the Kelly Controller. Mine was a KLS 72701-8080IPS. Mine cuts out at low speed , high torque. This is a problem with Kelly. I have built a smaller bike (KX100) with a QS138 70H V3 , with the Votol EM-150 SP . That combo is faster, more responsive , wheelies and really spins up with Flux Weaking. I am going to a varient of the QS motor and Votol Controller in my full sized YZ bike. No more Kelly