[michaeljayclark]

Kostov says that regen is native to this line of motors and just a controller is needed to get the regen.

the soliton1 right now doesnt have regen. Kelly makes a 400amp controller that does regen.

can a system be set up that the soliton controls the motor for acceleration and then when the bake is pressed it switchs to the kelly to send energy back into the traction pack?

 

[rwaudio]

Kostov says that regen is native to this line of motors and just a controller is needed to get the regen.

the soliton1 right now doesnt have regen. Kelly makes a 400amp controller that does regen.

can a system be set up that the soliton controls the motor for acceleration and then when the bake is pressed it switchs to the kelly to send energy back into the traction pack?

First of all the Soliton1 won't control a sepex motor.... So the fact you couldn't parallel the controllers and expect it to work doesn't matter.

 

[DavidDymaxion]

Regen is native to sepex motors. My Kostov does great regen with no controller! Right now I just have a big contactor. The motor wants to spin at a key speed of 1600 rpm at 48 Volts. Go down a hill, or downshift, (in other words, spin it faster than 1600 rpm) and it regens.

This is not a recommendation for or against, but look again at the Kelly website. They recently introduced a 1000 A 144 V sepex controller. If you get one please let us know how you like it.

You could rig up something where one controller handles the field, and another controller handles the armature. You would need a controller for the controllers, or a very simple control algorithm and mechanical control of the pots. You need to know what you are doing, as there is considerable risk in that route. If the field gets too weak the motor can overspeed, sudden regen can skid the wheels resulting in loss of control, you can burn up the fine field wiring, etc.

Kostov says that regen is native to this line of motors and just a controller is needed to get the regen.

the soliton1 right now doesnt have regen. Kelly makes a 400amp controller that does regen.

can a system be set up that the soliton controls the motor for acceleration and then when the bake is pressed it switchs to the kelly to send energy back into the traction pack?

 

[michaeljayclark]

when i saw regen for the motor i emailed kostov to get more information. they just replied yes it can regen based on the controller. I asked if the motor just send dc power back to its power source if not drawing power. they just replied controller...

 

[Plamenator]

This is not a recommendation for or against, but look again at the Kelly website. They recently introduced a 1000 A 144 V sepex controller. If you get one please let us know how you like it.

Indeed the Soliton1 will not work with a sepex motor.
I looked at Kelly's site but could not find any 144V/SepEx controller.
Do you know where I can find some specs/prices? I may actually be interested in buying one to test

 

[Plamenator]

Disregard my question
Just found it:
http://kellycontroller.com/hse141011000a144vsep-ex-with-regen-p-903.html
Looks good. I just hope it lives up to claimed performance.

 

[DavidDymaxion]

I'm going back and forth in my mind whether to buy one or go custom old school control. Please do let us know your results!

Disregard my question
Just found it:
http://kellycontroller.com/hse141011000a144vsep-ex-with-regen-p-903.html
Looks good. I just hope it lives up to claimed performance.

 

[Plamenator]

There is just one thing that worries me.
I know Soliton1 is like 17lbs and with the fans it "barely" manages 400A continuous with IGBT.

Kelly claims 450A continuous without fans, with mosfets and at 11lbs.
Or maybe 450A is with water cooling though I do not see where the water inlets are. Then what would the ratings be as is (without fans and without water)? 300A?
Definetely needs testing. If it lives up to specs, it can be a great controller.

Maybe Major/Tesseract will have some comment on it?

 

[jockepocke]

I am using an ABB sepex motor at 120 V. I bought an unknown Italian controller: Phoenix T62 (not on the list here, email them) http://www.elektrosistem.com/e/p2.htm which is supposed to handle 600 A. I only use 300 in my car though, but the controller barely gets warm at all, and this is with passive cooling. It has 7900 Hz switching freq, which means little less loss than 16 kHz I believe. They also have a 120 v controller that they claim can handle 800 A up to 75°C.

Oh, and it uses MOSFETs too!

 

[Guest]

There is just one thing that worries me.
I know Soliton1 is like 17lbs and with the fans it "barely" manages 400A continuous with IGBT.

Kelly claims 450A continuous without fans, with mosfets and at 11lbs.
Or maybe 450A is with water cooling though I do not see where the water inlets are. Then what would the ratings be as is (without fans and without water)? 300A?
Definetely needs testing. If it lives up to specs, it can be a great controller.

Maybe Major/Tesseract will have some comment on it?

The Kelly is designed like most others for you to provide a proper heat sink that will properly move heat away. You must put a heat sink on that controller. You could put a water cooled one on or a finned one on. I have a finned heat sink and will be including a large fan to help dissipate the heat away. Worked like a charm on my other controller.

Each mounting application is different. Soliton1 heat sink is built in and is also set for water cooling. That is one reason it's so blasted heavy.

 

[Plamenator]

I have tested T82 from Electrosistem - it is 350A(800 peak)/13lbs controller but up to 120V. Was very difficult to wire the first time but then worked fine in lab conditions. Price is like Kelly - 1900$: http://www.elektrosistem.com/xtra/53%20-%20News%20PHOENIX%20ING.pdf
The advantages of Kelly (based on specs only) are:
-programmable via PC
-144V (180V peak which is perfect for 45 lithium cells).
-1000A peak.

It is nice to find someone who has actually tested it in a car.
How long have you used it for?

 

[Guest]

Oh, and it uses MOSFETs too!

Nothing wrong with mosfets. They actually work quite well. They have been used for a long time and have a proven track record.

 

[Qer]

Each mounting application is different. Soliton1 heat sink is built in and is also set for water cooling. That is one reason it's so blasted heavy.

Yes. Other reasons are that it can provide 1000 Amps continuously and of course that it has built in contactors and precharge circuit so you don't need to mount those externally. All those things add up so to be fair you should compare weight and price with those external components included.

Btw, you never answered my question I asked a while back:

So, what's the complete price tag when it's all done? How much have you paid when you sum up the cost for the controller, the contactor, the heat sink, the precharge circuit etc?

Nothing wrong with mosfets. They actually work quite well. They have been used for a long time and have a proven track record.

Indeed. They also have their limitations which is why IGBTs make more sense in high power applications.

 

[DavidDymaxion]

IGBTs have a fixed voltage drop, and mosfets act more like a resistor. So at low currents mosfets are more efficient, and at higher currents IGBTs are more efficient. Don't know if 450 A is "low," or if this is the reason for a difference, but it's a thought. Maybe the Soliton is just built stronger.

There is just one thing that worries me.
I know Soliton1 is like 17lbs and with the fans it "barely" manages 400A continuous with IGBT.

Kelly claims 450A continuous without fans, with mosfets and at 11lbs.
Or maybe 450A is with water cooling though I do not see where the water inlets are. Then what would the ratings be as is (without fans and without water)? 300A?
Definetely needs testing. If it lives up to specs, it can be a great controller.

Maybe Major/Tesseract will have some comment on it?

 

[tomofreno]

Plamenator:

I know Soliton1 is like 17lbs and with the fans it "barely" manages 400A continuous with IGBT.

Qer:

Other reasons are that it can provide 1000 Amps continuously and of course that it has built in contactors and precharge circuit so you don't need to mount those externally.

Which is correct?

 

[Plamenator]

Both.
1000A is continous with water cooling, 400A (or thereabouts) without.

 

[Guest]

Water cooling is a big deal. Big difference too.

I'd like to see the Synkro go to water cooling too. Might raise the bar but with air it does a cool 400 amps and that was for the Beta units. The production units I believe are at 450 amps. The production version is IGBT as well. Still same dimensions as the Beta Units. Beta units are mosfet units.

I will push a water cooled version as well for future use. Might mean a bit larger box but maybe not.

Pete

 

[michaeljayclark]

From a few run ins with kelly they never seem to live up with their specs unless you run the controller in a freezer lol

the soliton is a high amperage unit that dc systems love. thats the whole idea behind the igbts being used. the contactors in the unit is the icing on the cake and make installation so much cleaner.

 

[Guest]

Most I have seen were or are not properly heat sinked if any heat sink at all. I am amazed when folks just slap it onto a flat piece of metal with no thermal compound and expect it to work. I have tested sinks and a good fined sink with a large output fan is required to keep the controller cool. I am not even sure the sink I have for my Kelly is adequate enough. It is heavy and and has deep fins but maybe not enough fins. My last sink was excellent and never let my controller get hot even in 108 degree temps and running my controller hard and with max amps in those outside temps. With out the sink or with out the fan the controller would go into thermal cut back. Once the fan was installed I could never heat it up again. It was a 72 volt 550 amp controller. Low voltages use high amps which creates high heat.

Any controller like the curtis, Alltrax, Kelly must have a deep fined sink and fan installed. A must. Or you could build a custom water cooled sink and use that instead. I have a nice block of aluminum that could be drilled and plumed for water. Might just do that.

 

[Tesseract]

There is just one thing that worries me.
I know Soliton1 is like 17lbs and with the fans it "barely" manages 400A continuous with IGBT.

Kelly claims...

Maybe Major/Tesseract will have some comment on it?

Actually, Plamen, the Soliton1 weighs closer to 33 lbs, IIRC. And, yes, if you insist on running it continuously on fan cooling alone then the maximum current will generally get derated down to about 400A after a minute or two. That's still higher than the maximum continuous current of a Zilla Z1K with liquid cooling so I don't feel particularly bad about that spec.

As for me having any comments on Kelly... uh, no.

Which is correct?

See that phrase from Plamenator I put in bold? Yeah, I guess you missed that in your haste to lambaste us, eh?