[david85]

Latest new on the LionEV website

http://www.lionev.com/

Now the only problem with this is that only confirmed customers will be able to attend.

I am leaning toward believing that LionEV is for real, but I can certainly understand why some have their concerns about the company. Frankly, they could be doing a better PR job. Even some videos of their electric ranger driving at highway speeds would be good. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Maybe there will be some video footage of the event.

 

[joseph3354]

that is interesting as predator performance recently updated their site confirming that they built 2 (yes count them..2) rangers for lionev,so where exactly is this "production line" ?guess we have to buy one to find out,hmmm?

http://icpusa.icpusa.net:227/electric.htm

 

[david85]

that is interesting as predator performance recently updated their site confirming that they built 2 (yes count them..2) rangers for lionev,so where exactly is this "production line" ?guess we have to buy one to find out,hmmm?

http://icpusa.icpusa.net:227/electric.htm

Good info Joesph, VERY good info. I was always wondering why their videos and pictures include other vehicles that are clearly gas burning muscle cars. Nothing against muscle cars, just didn't make sense why an EV shop would have so many of them, and only one EV.

If LionEV is in fact using a variation of the "drop shipping" principal, that would not be entirely unusual, but why all the secrecy? Why not post some real videos of their EVs tearing it up. I still think there is potential here, but I need to see a lot more of this company than I am seeing right now before I will consider risking my money.

Could it be that they are so busy that they are limiting themselves to local customers only? Our home business does not advertise at all, and we have too much work year round. Just not sure what the case is with LionEV.

 

[MrCrabs]

That "open house" doesn't give me any good feeling about lionev.... Oh sure, anyone can come and see our operation.... if they already gave us money.

So Predator Performance does the conversions, but LionEV acts as a middle man? There is nothing that I hate more than an unnecessary middle man. LionEV has someone else do a couple of conversions for them in the past, but their relationship went sour.

 

[joseph3354]

yes predator is the convertor for lionev,ampmobiles out of south carolina was supposed to do the hyundai conversions for them last year.ampmobiles apparently pulled out after lionev made unsubstantiated claims about the vehicles performance and availability.
what i find even more interesting is the ATV that lionev is advertisng as their own creation was actually built by predator for an entirely different company.

i like the "dropship" comparison.lionev refers to their "dealerships" as family operated businesses some of which are based at the family's home.(interview with autobloggreen).

i would not hesitate to deal with predator performance,they may be pricey but at least i know who they are and where they're located.now they have an EV division to do conversions.

 

[david85]

The plot thickens....

LionEV's official line is that there was simply no demand for the accent EV conversion. The official line on the escape plug in conversion is that it is too complex to show us how the conversion is done. So they will not document the conversion process like they did with the ranger.

If the accent numbers were unverified, than what does that mean for the rangerEV and the claimed 200-400 mile range?

It makes me wonder why we have yet to see an example of the accent EV or the plug in escape hybrid.

Could it be that all there is to lionEV is two ranger conversions, and a suite case full of names and contacts??? I sure hope not. Maybe texomaEV can chime in with his take on this topic since he has actually dealt with them.

I don't want to make any quick judgements jet, since its hard to prove any of this right now.

 

[joseph3354]

it was also their"official line" that they had 1000 hyundais on "their" lot waiting for conversion last year.now that predator is doing conversions i think i would deal directly with them to see if they will do one for the average joe and how pricey it might be.

 

[KiwiEV]

it was also their"official line" that they had 1000 hyundais on "their" lot waiting for conversion last year.now that predator is doing conversions i think i would deal directly with them to see if they will do one for the average joe and how pricey it might be.

Where did the 1000 hyundais go?

 

[joseph3354]

as david said,i think they're doing a "dropship"method of sales.the 1000 hyundais were probably on dealer lots,hyundai dealers.i know that at least the 2 completed rangers from predator came from a local dealer here in pa.IF i had to guess,this is a guess only a guess,it's probably a fleet deal.i saw a post on the EVDL about fleet purchases.some purchases for fleet use could be as few as 3 vehicles.the purchase price for fleet discount was about 1/3 the MSRP.IF that is the case,they could buy 3 vehicles to convert for the base MSRP of 1.so if they sell 1 conversion they could possibly buy 3 more to convert.how's that for markup?!

 

[david85]

Bloody hell! one third???

If any of this is true I'm getting tempted to start my own conversion outfit! For crying out loud, many of us have already contacted lithium battery suppliers directly. Here I go getting all worked up........

I'm getting real sick of waiting for others to get their act together.

Tesla is having transmission problems, LionEV is sounding like a pyramid scheme, Phoenix is changing batteries already, and of course GM is bad mouthing their own alternative creation yet again. I guess its up to us, not that we didn't already know that.

By the way, do any of you recognize these batteries?

http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/100218404/Foldable_Electric_Car_200ah_179_2v_Li_Ion_Battery_.html

There used to be a photo of them on LionEVs website when they were still showing the bronze, silver, gold, and flex pack pricing system.

I recognize the aluminum head sink case. The plot thickens......

 

[joseph3354]

yeah i recognize those,check out some of their other pics and you'll find zuhai's batteries as well.it seems the chinese manufacturers are all intertwined.some of the pics for HYPOW are included in a powerpoint that cindy sent from zuhai.even though cindy told me the only thing lionev got from them was samples,the batteries all seem to have the same case.i am beginning to believe that there are only a few battery manufacturers in china but a lot of "front"companies claiming to be manufacturers that are only selling products for the others,i may be wrong but thats what it looks like.looks like a duck,sounds like duck.........must be a duck!

 

[TexomaEV]

Bloody hell! one third???

By the way, do any of you recognize these batteries?

http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/100218404/Foldable_Electric_Car_200ah_179_2v_Li_Ion_Battery_.html

There used to be a photo of them on LionEVs website when they were still showing the bronze, silver, gold, and flex pack pricing system.

I recognize the aluminum head sink case. The plot thickens......

I don't think they are the same as those from LionEV, as the photo doesn't show a vent cap in the center of the cells. Look at the latest photos on:

www.flickr.com/mbarkley

We're getting our act together. BEQ1's are working out faster than expected, and the cells are holding up to even short bursts of 450amp load tests. Hot Juice Electric has been working hard at making the LiFePO4 technology a workable solution for us EV'rs.

 

[david85]

My remark of "getting their act together" was not aimed at you, texoma, Sorry if you took it that way. However I do have some concerns about LionEV, and why so little is known about them. Have you seen their facility? What is your take on what we have discussed so far on this thread?

Is it true that they only have 2 EVs to date???


EDIT: yes, Cindy told me the same thing about sending samples to LionEV. But was no mention of just how many were sent.

 

[TexomaEV]

My remark of "getting their act together" was not aimed at you, texoma, Sorry if you took it that way. However I do have some concerns about LionEV, and why so little is known about them. Have you seen their facility? What is your take on what we have discussed so far on this thread?

Is it true that they only have 2 EVs to date???

David nothing negative taken, I meant we the few guys in Texas/Oklahoma are getting to the absolute final stages of having workable LiFePO4 solutions that anyone can use to switch over to Lithium, and drop the weight of Pb/acid.

I personally have never been to the LionEV facility. I have met Ken from LionEV while he was at an Expo in Dallas, I chat with him and the inventory manager on a weekly almost daily basis. I only know of the two Rangers here in Texas that I"ve worked with myself, they are beautiful conversions, I must say from the PA facility.

If anyone wants to purchase something of this high cost, I'd no matter who the company is, do it through a third party (credit card?), of which you have insurance for any issues that might develop, period. Never just hand over a check, and hope to get something for it.

If you want batteries, for instance you can purchase them from www.beepscom.com (which is listed on LionEV's website), and hopefully soon the BEQ1's from www.hotjuiceelectric.com as well. The two items are looking like a nice, nice matched pair. Parts are on order now for an entire traction pack worth of BEQ1-LiFePO4's for absolute final test phase, to pretty much seal the design of the BEQ1-LiFePO4 Balancers.

 

[joseph3354]

tesla may be having problems,but at least they have a dealership open to the public now and more to come.lionev doesn't have any open to the public in general,by appointment only.i could see this as plausible for a high-end vehicle,but 40k vehicle?doesn't make much sense to me,is it just me?i know most conversion shops are not open to the general public either,but then they're not selling vehicles as "new".

 

[JRP3]

i saw a post on the EVDL about fleet purchases.some purchases for fleet use could be as few as 3 vehicles.the purchase price for fleet discount was about 1/3 the MSRP.IF that is the case,they could buy 3 vehicles to convert for the base MSRP of 1.so if they sell 1 conversion they could possibly buy 3 more to convert.how's that for markup?!

I saw that post as well and I really question the accuracy. Dealerships don't get that kind of discount and they sell hundreds of vehicles. Something doesn't add up.

 

[joseph3354]

i used to work at a mazda dealership,the mazda millennia was not selling too great at the time.mazda introduced a rebate of 11k on the cars and we sold the 5 that we had almost immediately.the rebate was given back to the dealer as credit towards more cars for the lot.i don't know how the fleet purchases really work but if it's anything like that rebate package....well you get the idea.

 

[saab96]

If you want batteries, for instance you can purchase them from www.beepscom.com

I got excited about these initially but these are the ones with the low 3C discharge rate. With a 144V pack I don't see it yielding very good acceleration. I'm waiting to hear about someone who actually uses this in their EV first.

 

[david85]

I got excited about these initially but these are the ones with the low 3C discharge rate. With a 144V pack I don't see it yielding very good acceleration. I'm waiting to hear about someone who actually uses this in their EV first.

According to their claims, you can go past 3C but they will self ballance if you stay below 3C. I'm not really sure why you would need much more than 600 amps for the average conversion.

I have been looking and a few differenc LiFePo4 suppliers in the last few years and generally 3C seems to be a good rule. BUT, not all batteries are made equal, and some favor energy dencity over "C" rating. Some recomend no higher that 2C, and the older cobalt chemistry LiPos can get over 200wh/kg, but with less than 2C rating.

The Lifepo chemistry can support current draws much more than 3C, but the cell usually sacrifices energy dencity to achieve this. Lifepos usually are between 95-115wh/kg (with lead being around 35)

 

[mattW]

This thread has been split into a new thread 'Let's Build an Electric Car'