[1-ev.com]

Lithium Battery compared -$- Thunder Sky, CALB, Headway, Hi-Powers, etc.

I want to start this thread to compare Lithium Battery, based on personal experiences.

Let try to keep this compact, so it would be easy to use it as a reference later.

I am thinking what should I get Thunder Sky, CALB, Headway, Hi-Powers?

Thank you all in advance for all inputs!!!

 

[major]

I want to start this thread to compare Lithium Battery, based on personal experiences.

Let try to keep this compact, so it would be easy to use it as a reference later.

Thank you all in advance for all inputs!!!

O.K. What are your results? Start us off

 

[GerhardRP]

O.K. What are you results? Start us off

I would like to see reports of cell failures with damage caused and causitive situation and including BMS systems used. [Working fine with total kW-hrs delivered is also good to report.]
Gerhard

 

[1-ev.com]

I think info based on personal experiences will help to promote EVs in general... In our design we should include some kind of Li battery and not AGM or other lead-based products, they are history.

 

[major]

I think info based on personal experiences will help to promote EVs in general... In our design we should include some kind of Li battery and not AGM or other lead-based products, they are history.

O.K. Cool. You want a comparison of members experience with different Lithium batteries. How about you start a spreadsheet and we'll fill in? I'll start. Kokam 40 Ah perform to spec up to 8C and have 19 cycles in the field with no problems.

I'm not putting you down here. Go for it. I just don't think it will work. But prove me wrong, please

major

 

[ElectriCar]

Either nobody here runs lithium or they don't have any issues to report.

 

[pm_dawn]

Hi !

I have a pack of Thundersky 160ah 40 pieces to give about 128v nominal.
The've got about 6300+ miles on them now in pretty harsh swedish environment. Last winter I did some close to 2C runs in -28degC and this winter I have run the car in -27degC. I run it every day.
I had one cell go busbar on me, but other then that they work fine.

They DO NOT LIKE the cold here, below freezing is not that fun.
I had a Endless BMS, but I run BMS free now. No LVC/HVC just pack voltage. I have probably overcharged them before I got the charger to work properly. And I can see big differences in Ri. Probably from overcharge. I did not have the cellog when I started using the pack.
Over all really happy.
Enough to plan a second pack for another car.
I never draw abowe 2C from the pack.

Regards
/Per

 

[1-ev.com]

I never draw abowe 2C from the pack.

Not even for 8cek?

 

[MN Driver]

/Per, Can you share what your pack voltage sags to and at what amperage at around -28degC. That would be roughly my design voltage minimum and 2C would be acceptable to me in the winter although I'd probably have to accelerate a bit carefully to keep it low, especially if I don't oversize my pack as much as I originally planned to.

 

[pm_dawn]

Even at fairly high SOC they sag below 2,5v at near 2C draw in -25degC.
I have 40 cells. I noted my lowest voltage to 89v at full throttle (275A)last winter. Temp was about -27 at that time, so really cold. I try to keep below 1C during winter.
This winter I have insulated boxes but I have not yet added any heating cable under the batteries.

I plan to but I don't have a garage to be in when working with my car and working outside in -20 and under take a lot of whiskey and we have all seen what that leads to......

Best Regards
/Per Eklund

 

[ElectriCar]

PM, you might try this stuff in the link below to retain heat in your batteries. It's only about 10mm thick and is equivalent of about 50mm of fiberglass insulation or 25mm of foam insulation. I used this stuff in the construction of my office. It also lines the floor of my truck and is in the wall behind the seat. This is a double layer product but they make a single layer half as thick which is what I used.

FYI I've used it in the ceiling and floor of my home. After installing it under the house which was normally comfortably above freezing in the winter, it became very cold under there. It works by reflecting radiant heat just as a mirror reflects visible light. It was developed by NASA, the US space agency to minimize the insulation thickness in their space suits which otherwise they said would have required several inches of insulation which wasn't practical.

I seriously recommend this stuff to everyone!

http://www.radiantbarrier.com/side-wall-insulation.htm

 

[DIYguy]

PM, you might try this stuff in the link below to retain heat in your batteries. It's only about 10mm thick and is equivalent of about 50mm of fiberglass insulation or 25mm of foam insulation. I used this stuff in the construction of my office. It also lines the floor of my truck and is in the wall behind the seat. This is a double layer product but they make a single layer half as thick which is what I used.

FYI I've used it in the ceiling and floor of my home. After installing it under the house which was normally comfortably above freezing in the winter, it became very cold under there. It works by reflecting radiant heat just as a mirror reflects visible light. It was developed by NASA, the US space agency to minimize the insulation thickness in their space suits which otherwise they said would have required several inches of insulation which wasn't practical.

I seriously recommend this stuff to everyone!

http://www.radiantbarrier.com/side-wall-insulation.htm

I used this also.. I have two points to consider. It works well on the sides of battery boxes. If you are putting it under lead acid, don't waste your time...the weight of the battery will flatten it pressing the air out of the bubbles. Be careful getting it anywhere near the top of the battery also...yes, aluminum foil is conductive. It took me a while to figure out why I was getting a tingle off my truck frame when touching battery terminals. I covered 4/0 with some heater hose (reinforced with steel) and it was touching the aluminum foil bubble wrap...

 

[1-ev.com]

Hey Guys, I think this is AWESOME idea:

I covered 4/0 with some heater hose (reinforced with steel)

And this link :
http://www.radiantbarrier.com/garage-door-insulation.htm

-about insulation, where it could be used for general car insulation for A/C and heat purposes!!!

Thank you!!!

 

[elfi]

Hi everyone,
My Hi-Power cells are 100Ah and 40S connected. They perform superb combined with manufacturers charger and cell shunts. I use cellog 8S to monitor voltage of each cell. What they say in brochure is correct 1C normal discharge, 3C for 15-20 even 60 seconds. I haven’t experience any negative yet, and car is running every day for the past year. I decided to use wood for my battery box as it performs as isolation as well, both thermal and electrical. Inside wooden box there is a cell-plast-foam isolation material that Hi-power shandong uses when transport cells. I use cockpit 240V 1200W heater a few minutes before charge and every time before driving here in Sweden during winters. Last week it was –19*C and the car is running well.

I have also 4 small packs of Headways. We use them to unload forklift trucks from trailers and to transport them to warehouse. We have abused those packs by dropping them, over discharge them, undercharge, overload, and overheat and very very cold… I can write in hours but they just deliver and deliver. Last week firs pack had a string of cells that died as shunt wires got broken after 14 months of abuse. I just pull out some cells and reorganize them without any shunt or BMS, they perform now even better… One thing that I do not like about Headway is very pour material of poles, screws, washers and contacts… 50% is already rusty a bit.

All my tools and toys are running on 123’s. You have to dare to start experimenting battery and to push it a but harder next time. I can say only “No comment”, get your own set and start playing if you dare.

I just purchased some GBSystem 100Ah LiFeMnPO4 cells but didn’t had a chance to test them. Impressive is finish on those, they look like Porsche or Ferrari compared with all other cells that I ever seen. If they perform like they look they can easily become my first choice.

 

[1-ev.com]

What they say in brochure is correct 1C normal discharge, 3C for 15-20 even 60 seconds. I haven’t experience any negative yet, and car is running every day for the past year.

Thank you for sharing this info. Did you try to go 2C "normal" discharge or more then 3C?

Can you post Amps on certain speeds like 40, 50, 60, 80 K/H...

 

[elfi]

Speed km/h ........Amps
Start ................100-200A depends
20 .....................20
30 .....................30
50 .....................50
70 .....................80
90 .....................100
100 ...................130
110 ...................160

My normal driving is thru suburbia to job, no highway. Speed limit is 50, 70, 90 another words no need for more than 100Amps.

 

[DIYguy]

I just received the test report for my 67 Calb 180 Ah cells. I asked them to match them as close as possible WRT capacity and internal resistance. Its a pretty well detailed report. I was hoping for something half this good. I'll give you the highlights.....67 cells tested.

lowest Ah rating.....................198
highest Ah rating ...................200
lowest resistance in mOhms......0.31
highest resistance in mOhms.....0.36

Pretty impressive... I think.

Merry X-mas everyone..

 

[DIYguy]

They also measured open circuit voltage after a 1C discharge and then charge to 60%SOC, then stand for 24 hours.
Lowest voltage measured..... 3.302
Highest voltage measured......3.304

of course this is the flat area of the curve so... no surprises here I guess. Will still have to check balance at upper...or probably in my case lower side of discharge knee....

 

[EVfun]

I must be blind DIYguy, but where did you get your CALB cells? You have a tightly matched set and the documentation is a nice touch.

 

[todayican]

Please say US distributor in Pomona, Please say US distributor in Pomona... (Chanting)