[Gasjunky]

I have an extra b2200 laying around and looking into potentially converting it into electric. After seeing this video on youtube

I've decided I want to take this idea and run with it. I have already been reading around on various forums and know I'm going to get alot of flak for wanting to do it this way.
I like I because it re uses half the original engine and maintains stock motor/transmission mounts. I also like the idea of keeping the manual 5 spd for a more authentic feel. (I know half the gears are useless and don't care). For those who aren't able to watch the video for whatever reason here is the main idea.
Remove the cylinder head
Remove the pistons/rods
Put a Plate on top of the block
Electric motor on top of the plate
Move the cam gear from old cylinder head to the motor
Timing belt and boom
Ev conversion
(Of course there is the whole wiring and everything else the actual hard part)
My first improvement on this idea of course would be keeping the crank oiled. My plan for this is to make a sort of plug that would fill the cylinders and keep oil from being Slung to the top of the empty cylinders and use the stock oil pan. I shouldn't need an oil pump as crankshaft are designed to lubricate themselves.
With this set up it would be super easy to add the stock alternator back on to power lights / radio / heater. They offer a 150 Amp high output alternator for the b2200 that would be plug an play (again besides wiring). I have seen a couple mazda b2200's (gas of course) with multiple high output alternators to run huge amps and subwoofers. My idea with this is for battery charging. Every post I have seen says no matter what you will always lose energy with alternators never gain more. Which I have understand why it works like that but another part of me is wondering if anything would be changed adding multiple alternators and or high output 150a.
I'm also thinking adding a ladder rack to hang solar panels on. These trucks come stock with 91hp and 118 ft lbs of torque so I don't need or want anything to crazy. I'm not expecting to get highway speeds but it would be cool. I'm looking for at least a 100% range. Please don't try and convince me to change my idea (unless it comes to the whole alternator thing not helping, if so please try to explain your reasoning so I can get a better understanding) I'm keeping the block and transmission. Deleting everything else no longer needed. My budget is around 2500 for now. I'm looking to basically get it moving and then from there I can do the other alternators and solar panels with extra money I have down the road. Any suggestions on this would be awesome. Also if I could cut cost and use 12v car batteries that would be awesome. Besides the whole Peukerts rule which reduces lead acid batteries power by 55%. Thanks in advance.

 

[OR-Carl]

My idea with this is for battery charging. Every post I have seen says no matter what you will always lose energy with alternators never gain more. Which I have understand why it works like that but another part of me is wondering if anything would be changed adding multiple alternators and or high output 150a.

I am just going to jump in on this part, real quick... The first part is right - you will never get more out than you put in. That sums it up. No matter how much power you run through it, power is always going to be lost. Does not matter how big the alternator is, or its ratings, or anything, power will just disappear as heat. The more alternators you add, the more you will lose.

I would also suggest you put the solar panel idea on hold for a while too. It will become clear to you why when you do some more research, and get a feel for the power requirements of moving a truck.

As for the idea of mounting a motor on top of the block? Sounds creative to me! Have you thought about how much power your belt is going to be able to deliver, though? You will need a pretty serious belt to deliver 90hp. I am not sure why removing the several hundred pounds of useless steel is a deal breaker for you, but there are other proven methods to mate an electric motor to the trans if it turns out to be a dead end.

The only use I would suggest for lead acid batteries, is to try and find free or nearly free ones just for testing. They just wont give you enough range to justify the cost and weight.

 

[brian_]

Every part of this plan is bad and apparently based on a deep lack of understanding of everything from fundamental scientific principles to practical automotive mechanics.

Is this serious?

 

[Gasjunky]

I am just going to jump in on this part, real quick... The first part is right - you will never get more out than you put in. That sums it up. No matter how much power you run through it, power is always going to be lost. Does not matter how big the alternator is, or its ratings, or anything, power will just disappear as heat. The more alternators you add, the more you will lose.

I would also suggest you put the solar panel idea on hold for a while too. It will become clear to you why when you do some more research, and get a feel for the power requirements of moving a truck.

As for the idea of mounting a motor on top of the block? Sounds creative to me! Have you thought about how much power your belt is going to be able to deliver, though? You will need a pretty serious belt to deliver 90hp. I am not sure why removing the several hundred pounds of useless steel is a deal breaker for you, but there are other proven methods to mate an electric motor to the trans if it turns out to be a dead end.

The only use I would suggest for lead acid batteries, is to try and find free or nearly free ones just for testing. They just wont give you enough range to justify the cost and weight.

Ok so I'll just stick to 1 alternator. Stock for now.
Just to power the lights. The belt part is easy. A stock timing belt can hold 90 hp easy. I could swap pulleys and go to a supercharger belt or timing chain if it becomes to much of an issue. I got some batteries laying around so they will work for testing. But what do you think about building my own packs with 18650's?. Like I mentioned I'm trying to do this on the cheap. If you could recommend some motors that offer enough power but still small enough to fit on top of the block. That are relatively cheap. I know it's alot to ask for but, I've seen a couple people use old forklift motors and they seem relatively cheap. I'm pretty much using my parts b2200 as a lab rat. And trying to learn about ev's at the same time. My ultimate goal would be doing the same ev conversion to my bagged b2200.

 

[brian_]

I'm pretty much using my parts b2200 as a lab rat. And trying to learn about ev's at the same time.

But are you? This suggests that you have decided that you know how to do a conversion and don't intend to learn anything:

I've decided I want to take this idea and run with it. I have already been reading around on various forums and know I'm going to get alot of flak for wanting to do it this way.
...
Please don't try and convince me to change my idea (unless it comes to the whole alternator thing not helping, if so please try to explain your reasoning so I can get a better understanding) I'm keeping the block and transmission.

So I assume that it would be a waste of anyone's time to comment on the plans (other than to respond to your specific questions), and I look forward to watching the updates.

 

[brian_]

The only use I would suggest for lead acid batteries, is to try and find free or nearly free ones just for testing. They just wont give you enough range to justify the cost and weight.

That makes some sense, but even a completely dead car battery is worth $20 as a core refund around here (because they have recycling value, and because core charges are included in battery costs to keep them out of garbage dumps), so they're not free. Ten nearly dead batteries are still a couple hundred dollars.

 

[Electric Land Cruiser]

I was able to find 10 free lead acid batteries for a recent project. Only one was junk and one could hardly pull 300amps but I did get them for free!

Alternator is just dumb because you are going to be carrying around a big battery already and turning an alternator with an electric motor is just a waste if energy and also would only work when you are actually moving, not stationary. It's trivial to convert your large battery down to 12v to run the lights and everything.

Using the engine block and cam pulley like that would gain you a 4:1 reduction with good tight tolerances and smooth low friction rotation so possibly it could work! Definitely ******* engineering at it's finest.

 

[Gasjunky]

So do you guys got any recommendations on where to source a good dc motor? It is to my understanding dc motors are cheaper. Is a 2500-3000 dollar budget doable?

 

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

Please don't try and convince me to change my idea (unless it comes to the whole alternator thing not helping, if so please try to explain your reasoning so I can get a better understanding) I'm keeping the block and transmission.

You saw a thing once... and you've decided this is the route you will use?

Did you look around at the different ways of using junk parts to make a cheap EV? Of connecting a DC motor to the old transmission? Or do you not care?

This is the one and only example I have ever seen that uses this method, and I think it was built as a joke.

...

Here's what I think will happen:
- You say you do not want anyone to change your mind.
- You start working on this.
- You hit roadblocks.
- You ask for help.
- You get advice.
- You follow advice.
- You hit more roadblocks.
- You ask for more help.
- You get more advice.
- You don't like the consequences of this advice this time, it's not what you want to do.
- Someone points out that you committed to this limited bundle of solutions when you committed to other parts of your build.
- Someone says that's what everyone was trying to tell you before, but you wouldn't listen.
- You capitulate and undo most of it, do what everyone else suggested you do way back at the start, or, you abandon your project.

...

Either way, not my circus, not my monkey. But I do like zany projects built the wrong way and I do have popcorn to munch on while I watch. If you're passionate about it, go for it. And share and document it.

There's no reason this won't work, it's just lots of bad choices. And it's a free country.

Btw... does it matter to you at all that even this Indian dude working in dirt, abandoned his project and decided to couple directly to the transmission instead in his next 2 variants?

Which I have understand why it works like that but another part of me is wondering if anything would be changed adding multiple alternators and or high output 150a.

As it turns out, you do not understand why it works like that, if you think adding more alternators will solve the problem of free energy.

I'm looking for at least a 100% range.

Super. No problem. Any range you get will be 100%, you can of course always choose to travel less than 100%. In fact, ignore what I said about no free energy. The car is currently garbage, if you get it to move at all, you're well over 100% of what it had for range.

Also if I could cut cost and use 12v car batteries that would be awesome. Besides the whole Peukerts rule which reduces lead acid batteries power by 55%.

The primary reason people do not buy EVs is because of cost. Most of the cost is the cost of batteries. If there was a cheaper battery, don't you think factories would be using those instead, except for luxury models?

But if you have a field of lead-acid starter batteries and don't mind only getting 5-10 cycles out of them before they're murdered by deep discharge, it'll work.

and then from there I can do the other alternators and solar panels with extra money I have down the road

Solar panels on the car? Why not. A little bit of everything, like caserole made from leftovers.

Extra money is great to have. I maybe wouldn't bank on having any based on your current decisions, but, sure, put a wind turbine on the thing while you're at it.

So do you guys got any recommendations on where to source a good dc motor? It is to my understanding dc motors are cheaper.

Here's my advice. Should be $200 or less. I've never paid for any of mine, but I make an effort to be pleasant to deal with:

To use gearbox & adapter plate - or not ?

Thanks, good to know you get 50km from 14kwh (& my aerodymanics probably aren't much better than yours, its actually a morgan-esque kit based on a Spitfire that I built about 35 years ago) Re 40kwh - yes agreed, hence the desire to lose the gearbox, but I reckon that using the petrol tank space...

www.diyelectriccar.com

Is a 2500-3000 dollar budget doable?

It is equally doable as the rest of your project.

Buy used parts, be cheap, sure.

 

[OR-Carl]

But I do like zany projects built the wrong way and I do have popcorn to munch on while I watch. If you're passionate about it, go for it. And share and document it.

Haha, this sounds about right. Judging by what you are talking about doing, Gasjunky, you should strive to not spend anything on this build. What you are planning on building sounds like it will be a setpiece for a Mad Max movie where now all the gas is REALLY gone, and Max and pals convert their old rusted buckets over to electric and run them on scrounged solar panels.

A DC forklift motor is going to be your best bet for powering this thing. They are still out there, but you will have to hunt for them a little bit. I found a forklift breaker yard close by, but they were highly reluctant to deal with me. If I had showed up with cash in hand, I could probably have found something. Try searching craigslist for forklift parts or service.

If you have time to kill, you could also think about buying a whole forklift. Once the batteries wear out, they are not worth much. I saw several around for less than a grand. By scrapping the batteries, stripping parts, and then cutting up the frame and recycling that, you could probably break even and have the parts basically for free. Everything on them is super heavy, so I wouldnt even consider it unless you have a real big truck and a front end loader.

I am still super skeptical about the ability of a belt to deliver as much power as you are talking about, but I have no experience with that sort of thing, so I will watch and learn.

 

[Gasjunky]

Haha, this sounds about right. Judging by what you are talking about doing, Gasjunky, you should strive to not spend anything on this build. What you are planning on building sounds like it will be a setpiece for a Mad Max movie where now all the gas is REALLY gone, and Max and pals convert their old rusted buckets over to electric and run them on scrounged solar panels.

A DC forklift motor is going to be your best bet for powering this thing. They are still out there, but you will have to hunt for them a little bit. I found a forklift breaker yard close by, but they were highly reluctant to deal with me. If I had showed up with cash in hand, I could probably have found something. Try searching craigslist for forklift parts or service.

If you have time to kill, you could also think about buying a whole forklift. Once the batteries wear out, they are not worth much. I saw several around for less than a grand. By scrapping the batteries, stripping parts, and then cutting up the frame and recycling that, you could probably break even and have the parts basically for free. Everything on them is super heavy, so I wouldnt even consider it unless you have a real big truck and a front end loader.

I am still super skeptical about the ability of a belt to deliver as much power as you are talking about, but I have no experience with that sort of thing, so I will watch and learn.

Yeah I before I saw this video I probably never would have thought about doing a ev conversion. I like the rat rod Mad Max whole vibe about it. And I think parting out and using bits from an old forklift and whatever else I can find would be fitting. If I turn out to enjoy how an ev drives than I might plan a real build.

 

[brian_]

Using the engine block and cam pulley like that would gain you a 4:1 reduction ...
Definitely *** engineering at it's finest.

How did you come up with that? In any four-stroke engine, the camshaft rotates at half the speed of the crankshaft, so using the timing belt this way gives an undesirable 2:1 step up in speed - that's overdrive not reduction - from the cam (now motor) to the crank.

Yes, definitely crappy "engineering".

 

[Gasjunky]

How did you come up with that? In any four-stroke engine, the camshaft rotates at half the speed of the crankshaft, so using the timing belt this way gives an undesirable 2:1 step up in speed - that's overdrive not reduction - from the cam (now motor) to the crank.

Yes, definitely crappy "engineering".

Could I use this step up to my advantage and get away with running a smaller motor?
A stock b2200 is 90 hp so what size motor am I going to be needing to do this?

 

[brian_]

Could I use this step up to my advantage and get away with running a smaller motor?

No, just as using really tall gearing (overdrive transmission) wouldn't let you get away with driving the truck with a lawnmower engine.