[Sky]

I have a 99 Ford Ranger with a 5 speed manual transmission id like to convert with a transwarp 9 possibly. Im trying to find a way to adapt the motor and transmission using off the shelf parts. The idea is to use the yoke that fits the transwarp with another yoke that would fit the splines of the input shaft to the transmission (M5OD-R1). Not sure if that yoke exists.. The two yokes could use either a standard U joint between the two or an adapter U joint like this: https://www.strangeengineering.net/product/conversion-u-joint-1310-to-1350.html/


Possible candidates for the input shaft yoke:
https://fortwayneclutch.com/product...smission-end-yoke-23-spline-yoke-sku-7264014/
https://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/p1...d_yoke_1410_series_for_23_spline_t.html#photo


Been looking through the forum and online for this information for a while. I already ran through the idea of direct drive to the drive shaft and the problems with that. I also looked at buying a premade adapter plate from here: http://www.ev-propulsion.com/adapterscouplers.html which may be the way to go. Im trying to avoid as much custom fabrication as possible. My thought is using a U Joint between the motor and transmission would reduce the tolerance needed for alignment of the two shafts.



My questions are:
1. Does anyone know the spline size on the M5OD-R1 input shaft? Most ive been able to find is its 23 tooth. Inner diameter is 0.984 inch on the clutch found here. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1977242&cc=1354755&jsn=1880&jsn=1880 I assume its an involute spline.


2. Would there be any issue using a U joint between the motor shaft and transmission input shaft? Other than i will need to make a plate for the bell housing to still support the front of the transmission.

 

[brian_]

My thought is using a U Joint between the motor and transmission would reduce the tolerance needed for alignment of the two shafts.

A U-joint will accommodate slight angular misalignment, but that is not usually the challenge in an adapter configuration. You would still need the shafts to exactly intersect, which is the bigger issue.

 

[Sky]

Reading up a bit more on shaft alignment.. I think im gonna take a few steps back and go with that premade adapter plate. Would be nice to keep the clutch and everything stock as designed. I see what you mean Brian, theres no getting around the precision needed for alignment.

 

[remy_martian]

A stick already has provisions for alignment. The pilot bearing in the crankshaft and the flex built into the hub of the clutch disk.

Some work, some machining, but nothing extensive or expensive, IMO.

 

[electro wrks]

A stick already has provisions for alignment. The pilot bearing in the crankshaft and the flex built into the hub of the clutch disk.

Some work, some machining, but nothing extensive or expensive, IMO.

This is an oversimplification of what is required. According to most OEMs, the transmission input shaft rational axis, in its normal operating position, needs to be aligned to within~0.005"(~0.13mm) of the rotational axis of the motor(ICE or electric). OEMs accomplished with a close fitting machined step between the motor and transmission, a pair of carefully located dowel pins, or some other means. 0.005 " is just over the thickness of a common piece of paper(~0.004",0.10mm) and would be very difficult to determine by eye and feel alone. The consequences of not having this level of alignment have shown up on this forum as damaged transmissions, chewed-up couplings, and even some broken motor shafts. This is not an area where you want to just slap the parts together and pray.
Unless you have something like one of these: https://www.faro.com/products/3d-manufacturing/faroarm/
or some other way of setting up the motor/transmission alignment to this level of precision, you should stick to using an adapter plate/coupling system from a reliable supplier.

 

[remy_martian]

There's engineering theory & specs, then there are street smart DIY.

Does this guy look like a rocket scientist? https://youtu.be/sc2kdVGUWO4?t=83

As long as you know what you are doing in practice, stuff will self-align and run true.

I personally hate the idea of keeping a transmission, but you does what you gots to do.

Rangers are not new to EV adapters, BTW...the bolt pattern for the bell housing is not a big mystery and, even if it was, locating the bolt pattern is not that difficult to someone with a bit of mechanical skill - or just common sense.

 

[electro wrks]

Rangers are not new to EV adapters, BTW...the bolt pattern for the bell housing is not a big mystery and, even if it was, locating the bolt pattern is not that difficult to someone with a bit of mechanical skill - or just common sense.

If the bolts and their holes alone were enough to align the transmission to the ICE(and an electric motor), why would most OEMs go to all of the trouble and expense to machine carefully located and sized dowel pin holes to more positively align the two? Do you think OEMs don't have the "street smart DIY" mojo to do this properly? Do they not have the special dispensation some EV God gives out to DIYers so they can ignore "engineering theory & specs" to make it work?

Some front wheel drive transmissions have an input shaft rigidly supported enough inside the transmission to be useful in aligning the motor well enough. You still need to be careful not to have the weight of the motor hanging on the input shaft so that the bearings and gears inside the transmission are heavily and destructively preloaded when the attachment bolts are tightened down. To prevent this OEMs have-you guessed it- carefully located and sized dowel pins. Most front engine, rear wheel drive transmissions (like in the Ranger) have an input shaft that is not well supported inside the transmission and heavily dependent on a well aligned and supported pilot bearing to work properly. This alignment is done with carefully located and sized dowel pins where the ICE and transmission bolt together. There is no coupling or magic feature inside the transmission so that the shaft "will self-align and run true". If this alignment and support requirement is ignored, you run a serious risk of ruining parts. You may say that plenty of people have ignored these requirements and gotten away with it. Give it time and see what happens. There have been a lot failures.

DIYers have enough to worry about with burned-up motors, controllers, connections, and bad batteries to be ignoring or second guessing OEMs on this alignment issue.

 

[remy_martian]

There's a huge difference in manufacturing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of units, and a one-off. Stuff will self-align to the pilot bearing if you know what you are doing in the build, as it will with a true motor face and flat adapter plate in the bellhousing's plane.

 

[electro wrks]

There's a huge difference in manufacturing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of units, and a one-off. Stuff will self-align to the pilot bearing if you know what you are doing in the build, as it will with a true motor face and flat adapter plate in the bellhousing's plane.

OK, tell us how you do it with an input shaft that normally moves around like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfYNuLcqtlA
This looseness is typical of this type of transmission, like in Sky's Ranger.


And, can demonstrate that its rotational axis is within 0.005" of the rotational axis of the motor shaft as per the common alignment limit. The typical clearance in a pilot bushing and the angular movement in a needle or ball pilot bearing makes them a poor choice for lining-up the motor within this limit. There's really no way, that I know of, of measuring the alignment once the parts are bolted together.


One idea for alignment is using a machined sleeve that temporarily replaces the pilot bearing/bushing. It should have a tight sliding fit on the machined end of the input shaft on the inside and on the outside, the same kind of fit in where the pilot bearing/bushing is pressed in(usually in a coupling or the end of the motor shaft). This temporary alignment sleeve would have to be set-up with the coupling, motor, and adapter plate in place on the transmission. Preferably, it should be set-up vertically so the heavy weight of the motor doesn't throw the alignment off.


Another idea for an alignment point is the cylindrical surface the release bearing slides on. If it is closely concentric with the normal input shaft rotational axis(it would be difficult to check this), an alignment sleeve could be machined to fit this on the inside and on the outside a machined adapter plate hole.


Both of these set-ups could potentially accurately locate the adapter plate on the bell housing so the normal rotational axis of the input shaft lines-up with the motor rotational axis within the 0.005" limit. At this point, holes could be drilled and reamed for dowels and you would have close to OEM type, repeatable alignment. It would be one less thing worry about every time the motor was taken off and put back on.