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Miniature power utility for small off grid community

2310 Views 40 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  ElectricEdward
I'm building a small off grid community with some other likeminded people and we're considering how to build a power supply consisting of solar, batteries and a small scale pumped hydro system. Has anyone seen anything like this done anywhere? We want to power people's cabins and have some EV charging points. One challenge is how to bill everyone based on the fact some will use very little and some will use a lot. I don't want there to be a profit motive but also there must be an incentive to keep the system well maintained, a stock of spares, redundancy and ability to scale. Thoughts anyone?
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Howdy Edward,

I'm not trying to "run you off"
...but, have you looked into any solar or off-grid forums?

Like:
NAZ Solar Electric Forum

Interesting idea
...keep us "posted" as to your progress, if possible ;)
Howdy Edward,

I'm not trying to "run you off"
...but, have you looked into any solar or off-grid forums?

Like:
NAZ Solar Electric Forum

Interesting idea
...keep us "posted" as to your progress, if possible ;)
Hi, not yet, I'm also interested in electric cars and I'd rather keep to one active forum, this one looks really good but I will take a look, thanks. :)

Also I'm set on using Tesla or similar car batteries because I have a decent supplier of batteries and support here in Romania where I live. As an English guy that's pretty important for me.
i would think that there could be a common fee for all based on having access to your "grid"; this fee would cover the cost of the system hardware over some expected lifetime plus the maintenance and spares cost. Someone will have to pay for the initial hardware and they should be re-paid for their investment.

The "fuel" cost is basically zero (solar and water).

In addition to the annual access fee there could be a monthly or quarterly usage fee based upon consumption if you wanted to put current sensors on everyone's line and monitor/measure the draw. The fees collected here could go into a fund to pay back a "dividend" at the end of the year, total collected divided by the number of users; Or the fees could go into a fund for upgrades and growth of the system at end-of-life or beyond the present capacity. This would not be "profit" but saving for a rainy day or for the cost of future hardware.

Good luck to you Edward, let us know how it goes for you.
OK, this is similar to what I have in mind, how do you motivate the person/people responsible for maintenance to work in the interest of all the users?
Well I'm glad you mentioned that, if you pay people by the hour for work they have an incentive to bill as many hours as possible, not to actually solve the problem. Anyone who's dealt with a lawyer will know this. I've put freelancing programming jobs online, got responses, given them work that I can find on Github for free to write (as a test) and they've quoted me $5k rather than just be honest. I've also tried giving them a very simple job I can do and they still quote insane rates.

So I'm trying to solve this problem for the whole community, I want to solve this issue wherever members of the community working for the community is involved, what people do outside the community is up to them. We're building a community of likeminded but independent people so we want to cooperate on power/energy/fuel, healthcare, food and security and I'm starting on power because I already have a small system on my house and I see the potential.

We've got the land, I've got one builder on board, we've started on our first cabin and I have I guess 10 people directly interested at various stages of getting involved. So this is a bit of a social experiment, traditional company structures don't work because there's no fair way to share the proceeds with all the contributors and they're crushing for people who want or have families and a balanced life.

In terms of the equipment required for constant service I know what's needed, how much redundancy you have is a matter of money, you can just have a big diesel generator at the end of the day but these need service, test running, maintenance etc. but it's a good solution if your main system and backup all goes down at the same time. :)

Anyway thanks for replying, all feedback welcome.
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Social experiments with selfish people abandoning society are doomed to fail. You clearly have not done the math

It seems like you're intent on reinventing a wheel called a "commune", which is the polar opposite of what your little right wingers' village occupants want. And you expect these people to own an EV that Let's Go Brandon has been "shoving down our throats"?

Each member needs to have the tallest cash heap, the most stuff, everything is their own or under their control, others are to be taken advantage of for personal gain, and the greater good does not exist because it supports the disabled and the lazy. Which is what the least productive member will be accused of.

The wolves ate those kinds of antisociety people many millennia ago, but psychopaths have had a way of morphing and surviving over thousands of generations - to the point where they now run the planet.

Hopeless cause.
Social experiments with selfish people abandoning society are doomed to fail. You clearly have not done the math

It seems like you're intent on reinventing a wheel called a "commune", which is the polar opposite of what your little right wingers' village occupants want. And you expect these people to own an EV that Let's Go Brandon has been "shoving down our throats"?

Each member needs to have the tallest cash heap, the most stuff, everything is their own or under their control, others are to be taken advantage of for personal gain, and the greater good does not exist because it supports the disabled and the lazy. Which is what the least productive member will be accused of.

The wolves ate those kinds of antisociety people many millennia ago, but psychopaths have had a way of morphing and surviving over thousands of generations - to the point where they now run the planet.

Hopeless cause.
Are you feeling OK?
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Howdy Edward,

I'm not trying to "run you off"
...but, have you looked into any solar or off-grid forums?

Like:
NAZ Solar Electric Forum

Interesting idea
...keep us "posted" as to your progress, if possible ;)
You are on the wrong forum, and many people on this forum don't want cars and solar interspersed. I'm on both types of forums. Check out DIY Solar Power Forum, or Second LIfe Storage. Either will do you well. And, check out Salvex in Houston for sales on off-grid power plants.
You are on the wrong forum, and many people on this forum don't want cars and solar interspersed. I'm on both types of forums. Check out DIY Solar Power Forum, or Second LIfe Storage. Either will do you well. And, check out Salvex in Houston for sales on off-grid power plants.
ok, cheers
You are on the wrong forum, and many people on this forum don't want cars and solar interspersed. I'm on both types of forums. Check out DIY Solar Power Forum, or Second LIfe Storage. Either will do you well. And, check out Salvex in Houston for sales on off-grid power plants.
Aw...come-on now, FWIU many EV folks also, have Solar (or inspire to) in their lives too.

It just makes sense, you can lower your electrical costs (bill) by powering your home, with solar
...& then, "fuel" your vehicle, at home

Also, if the "power" ever "goes out" in your area
...you should still have power (from your solar battery bank)
...& (if equiped) you can also extend the "range" of your homes "power" by drawing from your EV's battery pack ;)

* The sentiment I think your referring to is the fact that the Solar folks have gravitated toward re-purposing used OEM EV battery packs, rather than Lead
...& this (& let's face it other "current" economic factors) has increased the cost of & the availability of used OEM EV battery packs

** IMO Remy was just (in his own way) reminding the OP that "that concept" has been tried many, many times
...& as far as I know, they never lasted very long (kinda like Commun-ism) :(

Are there any still around? (& Chinese, forced Communism shouldn't count)
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That seems diy EV related enough to discuss on this forum; anyone not interested can Ignore the user or avoid the thread.
That's what I was thinking, anyway Remy contradicted himself implying it was selfish not to want to rely on others and the main reason not to do that was apparently because everyone is selfish, he's probably just sad that ChatGPT will shortly bring his trolling days to an end. Meanwhile I'd love some intelligent feedback.
So you’re making a ”mini” gubment in your own image
Having constructed two electric car rebuilds and having done solar and wind installations on a land co-op I can speak to some of your ideas. Two of those installations involved 2 windturbines shared by 5 households, with each household also having their own PV system of various sizes. I found the technical aspects far less troublesome than the social ones. While they were willing to split purchase and installation costs evenly, there was always friction about somebody using more than their fair share of power from the turbines. Combined with storm damage and general wear and tear, the added social unrest eventually caused them all to ditch the shared systems and the added complexity of wind to move toward expanding each of their individual PV systems. I would encourage the same, but perhaps with a shared general fund that could be accessed by individuals wanting/needing to start or expand their individual systems. And I'd suggest the hiring of a maintenance person to troubleshoot, repair, and upgrade systems. That leaves responsibility for power use, basic maintenance (if any), and borrowing for upgrades, up to the individual system owner. The person responsible for more complex maintenance, troubleshooting, and upgrades can start out fairly novice but will quickly gain extra knowledge through experience with varied system configurations.
In terms of EV ports, again, I'd leave those up to individual households or you will experience the same "have/have not" problems about who has an EV and who doesn't, how often they charge, and how much power they use from a shared charging system. Some will only need a Level 1 port or may have a plug-in hybrid or smaller pack, used less frequently. Others will have a big pure EV with a bigger pack and possibly much more frequent or long-ranging use. Individual systems make users take full responsibility for purchase and power use while the community funds the "bank" for those needs.
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Having constructed two electric car rebuilds and having done solar and wind installations on a land co-op I can speak to some of your ideas. Two of those installations involved 2 windturbines shared by 5 households, with each household also having their own PV system of various sizes. I found the technical aspects far less troublesome than the social ones. While they were willing to split purchase and installation costs evenly, there was always friction about somebody using more than their fair share of power from the turbines. Combined with storm damage and general wear and tear, the added social unrest eventually caused them all to ditch the shared systems and the added complexity of wind to move toward expanding each of their individual PV systems. I would encourage the same, but perhaps with a shared general fund that could be accessed by individuals wanting/needing to start or expand their individual systems. And I'd suggest the hiring of a maintenance person to troubleshoot, repair, and upgrade systems. That leaves responsibility for power use, basic maintenance (if any), and borrowing for upgrades, up to the individual system owner. The person responsible for more complex maintenance, troubleshooting, and upgrades can start out fairly novice but will quickly gain extra knowledge through experience with varied system configurations.
In terms of EV ports, again, I'd leave those up to individual households or you will experience the same "have/have not" problems about who has an EV and who doesn't, how often they charge, and how much power they use from a shared charging system. Some will only need a Level 1 port or may have a plug-in hybrid or smaller pack, used less frequently. Others will have a big pure EV with a bigger pack and possibly much more frequent or long-ranging use. Individual systems make users take full responsibility for purchase and power use while the community funds the "bank" for those needs.
Hi, thanks for that, finally a useful response, it's late here so I'll reply tomorrow in full with my ideas, really curious what you think. Cheers.
Having constructed two electric car rebuilds and having done solar and wind installations on a land co-op I can speak to some of your ideas. Two of those installations involved 2 windturbines shared by 5 households, with each household also having their own PV system of various sizes. I found the technical aspects far less troublesome than the social ones. While they were willing to split purchase and installation costs evenly, there was always friction about somebody using more than their fair share of power from the turbines. Combined with storm damage and general wear and tear, the added social unrest eventually caused them all to ditch the shared systems and the added complexity of wind to move toward expanding each of their individual PV systems. I would encourage the same, but perhaps with a shared general fund that could be accessed by individuals wanting/needing to start or expand their individual systems. And I'd suggest the hiring of a maintenance person to troubleshoot, repair, and upgrade systems. That leaves responsibility for power use, basic maintenance (if any), and borrowing for upgrades, up to the individual system owner. The person responsible for more complex maintenance, troubleshooting, and upgrades can start out fairly novice but will quickly gain extra knowledge through experience with varied system configurations.
In terms of EV ports, again, I'd leave those up to individual households or you will experience the same "have/have not" problems about who has an EV and who doesn't, how often they charge, and how much power they use from a shared charging system. Some will only need a Level 1 port or may have a plug-in hybrid or smaller pack, used less frequently. Others will have a big pure EV with a bigger pack and possibly much more frequent or long-ranging use. Individual systems make users take full responsibility for purchase and power use while the community funds the "bank" for those needs.
Hi, having read this again now I'm awake I have another question, when you said "added social unrest" what did you mean exactly? What happened?
The type of people running away from society will form a dysfunctional one. If it's functional, it'll be what they ran from. In other words, they are a pack of idiots that want to sponge their share away from others, but not call it "welfare".

I didn't contradict myself. Nor am I trolling - I simply am not well conversant in neoneanderthal.

You don't understand the social implications that make this a success or fail. The technology and financials are super easy. The part you don't understand is well understood by "the lefties".

"owning the libs" by becoming one? 😂
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