model T conversion help please

2240 Views 34 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Duncan, 4 mo ago

tom pekar

Discussion Starter · 5 mo ago

I started with a 23 T where the engine needed rebuild. I was offered this 300 lb caterpillar forklift motor ,sweet spot 1800 rpm ,series wound motor that i have mounted in the car,direct drive no clutch engine plate is shown it came from a 15 000 caterpillar forklift machine. the T nets out at 1500lb with the ice components removed original speed 35 mph at 1500 rpm. the electrics should balance out to 1500 pounds aftermarket disc brakes stop like a normal car.
I have run the motor direct drive to the driveshaft at 750 rpm on a `12 volt battery . I am anticipating 48 volts to give me just over 35 mph of 50 Km/hr this is a much as I wish to go on 100 yr old wooden wheels.
the batteries are nominal 48 volt from a bmw 130i which at 3500 lbs gave a 200 mile range. there are 8 units 4 under the floor as shown and two under the front seat replacing the gas tank ,two under the back seat cushion.
I have watched the videos from benjamin nelson, scotty vw van and garcia vw van.
nelson and scotty are using lead acid batteries.
The motor i got from a forklift mechanic who now being self employed has no time. a second tech said the same thing and a third does not want the liability. i found an octogenarian who has built 4 electric vehicles SLA and does not want the unknown liability of working with Lithium . the new crop of enthusiasts want AC motors regen and computer algorithms.
I have a main contactor, throttle box. 48 volt 12 volt converter throttle pedal and hydraulic brake pedal mounted to the front floorboard.
i bought a forklift that has a suppex motor and controller that are not compatible with a series wound motor.
I am acutely aware of the need for compatible components.
what i need is for someone to tell me what model controller to buy as well the bits and pieces. what i don't want to do is acquire bits and pieces from various sources that are not compatible. the choices are dizzying. i can sorta figure it out but lack the assurance that my thinking is correct.
I am well aware of what i can fabricate but humble enough to admit my limitations.
I live in the niagara falls canada area. [email protected] 905 9888648

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floydr

· #2 · 5 mo ago

The battery modules are 44.1V nominal. Might want to place the battery box in the engine compartment if there is room. Hanging down under the driveline could be a recipe for disaster even though the box looks to be of excellent quality. You need a 48V dc controller most any will work.Just make sure it is a DC series/PMDC motor controller. You would need a 12s BMS. Your voltage range 50.4V to 36V 4.2V- 3V. I would go 49.2V to 42V 4.1V to 3.5V. You probably don't need all 8 modules. The modelT is for shows/parades? How much range would you need?
later floyd

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floydr

· #4 · 5 mo ago

tom pekar said:
club car controller cuts out at 44volts

Most EV even DC series are programmable , a club car controller would be set up for LA so 11V a battery is right for a 4 s12Vpack. you can set the controller for lower voltage cut off with lithium (NMC) modules

tom pekar said:
so this is not only my personal vehicle but a proof of concept for a specific tourist application that i want to have finished by may.

Liability is a Big Issue once transporting tourists came into the picture.

tom pekar said:
the daily drive as a tourist vehicle would be 50 km only.

So a 100km range would work.
There are people who can figure out the kWh needed Surely less thana full i3 pack has. @ 3 miles/kWh that is 33kWh just a guess.
@50km/hr the amount of energy required is much less than @100km/hr.

later floyd

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floydr

· #6 · 5 mo ago

tom pekar said:
i bought a forklift that has a suppex motor and controller that are not compatible with a series wound motor.

How big is that motor I assume it is a Sepex motor and controller. The controller may have regen and if the motor is big enough That could take some of the load off the brakes. The two Sepex controllers I have both have regen.don't know if it would be enough. Sepex = Separately excited DC motor.
later floyd

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floydr

· #8 · 5 mo ago

brian_ said:
That makes sense, except that the motor appears to have been confirmed to be series-wound:

Reread what I wrote then reread what tom wrote in first post.
he didn't buy the motor in the modelT with a forklift. He bought a forklift with a sepex motor and controller. Apparently after the motor in the model T.
We are talking about two different motors. The one in the model T the series wound motor and the sepex motor in the forklift he bought.
Later floyd

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floydr

· #10 · 5 mo ago

How steep is the hill 600 foot climb in ___ miles/km? a lot depends on the grade
As remy has said you need something more than just your brakes on your car. Imagine you in your car at top of the hill descending and you start rolling downhill how would the brakes fare with a load of passengers?
From a limited search I found out that it can be complicated to implement resistor braking with a series wound motor.
Which is why I asked about the Sepex motor if large enough it could provide part of the braking with regen.
The precharge resistor value can be found in the Curtis motor controller manual. What I have seen listed is 270Ω for 48v controllers.
I would get a larger amp controller so you are not stressing the controller. 400A instead of 300A.
They also include a basic wiring diagram in the manual.
The Orion BMS2 warns against paralleling strings of cells you would have 8 strings of 12s.
Does Schauer offer a lithium compatible charger?
Many if not most programmable Curtis controllers have an electronic reverse.
Later floyd

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floydr

· #12 · 5 mo ago

MattsAwesomeStuff said:
how are they insufficient for putzing around town, even if it goes downhill

he doesn't plan to putz around town well maybe he does but he is planning on building 5 more for his friends who formerly drove horse carriages in a commercial setting (on the Niagara Escarpment) who have been slowly put out of business by animal right activists. And as such needs every potential liability covered. Two disc brakes may be enough I don't know.

MattsAwesomeStuff said:
Forklifts generally use "plug" braking, which is putting the motor in reverse (while moving forward). Even my 1969 York forklift, with SCR & Capacitor speed control, has plug braking.

Please forgive my limited understanding but I thought that was a last resort type of braking. at 35mph/50kmh that might destroy the controller then again don't really know

MattsAwesomeStuff said:
Are you planning on converting it to lithium?

tom pekar said:
The batteries are nominal 48 volt from a bmw 130i which at 3500 lbs gave a 200 mile range. there are 8 units 4 under the floor as shown and two under the front seat replacing the gas tank ,two under the back seat cushion.

Even included a pic of a BMW part no. A search on the BMW part no. showed that they were i3 12s probably the 111Ah modules
later floyd

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floydr

· #15 · 4 mo ago

The controllers Curtis currently makes Motor Controllers | Curtis Instruments . select series and 48V it will have a list of controllers.
Later floyd

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floydr

· #17 · 4 mo ago

tom pekar said:
The siemens automotive engineer explained there are two parts to this discussion. getting the wheels to stop turning on the car which the disc brakes will do without pause.
The weak link is the friction pad where the rubber meets the road. a 30 inch 3 inch high pressure tire has 3 1/2 inch foot print. this is 1/3 the surface of a modern tire. the disc brakes will lock up the rear wheels long before regen kicks in. The combination of regen and disc will stop sooner than the original transmission brake alone. In the end it depends upon friction co efficient. is the road wet or dry sand etc.

You seem to be doing your homework consulting the right people. Locking up brakes is not fun. Maybe go with (440/450-21’s) balloon tires available from 25 on the model T.( yes I had to look up the tire size). these would have a larger footprint and are low pressure tires. About the same over height of the 30" tires

Later floyd

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floydr

· #31 · 4 mo ago

GrayRaceCat said:
The Siemens engineer said there were two parts; getting the wheels to stop is one, and what was the second?

tom pekar said:
The weak link is the friction pad where the rubber meets the road. a 30 inch 3 inch high pressure tire has 3 1/2 inch foot print. this is 1/3 the surface of a modern tire. the disc brakes will lock up the rear wheels long before regen kicks in

I suggested going with 1925 model T rims and tires as they wider and of a low pressure design. Approximately same total wheel and tire diameter.
Haven't heard a response to the suggestion as of yet.
Along with resistor braking this may work.
Later floyd

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floydr

· #33 · 4 mo ago

Could some of the energy be lost by way of the disk brakes assuming one can get around the problem the Siemens engineer raised "brakes would lock up" If you could get a 50/50 split between resistor braking and the disk brakes then you would only need a 6,000 watt braking resistor. Still likely to be a sizeable resistor element.
Later floyd

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