Motor Identification (AC or DC)

3945 Views 20 Replies 4 Participants Last post by major, Dec 14, 2018

tallatghazi

Discussion Starter · Dec 2, 2018

Hi,
I am not an expert in Electrical terminologies. Can anyone please translate and confirm me following:
1- Will it be suitable to use Motor (attached image) with CURTIS AC MOTOR CONTROLLER 1236-5401. This CURTIS Motor controller supports AC Induction (36v/48v max 450A) motor.
2- Is Motor (attached image) AC or DC or something DUAL.
3- Why on striker on Motor (attached image) its showing DC:48v as well as AC Motor?

Thanks!

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1 - 20 of 21 Posts

major

· #2 · Dec 2, 2018

The 48V DC figure is the battery voltage required as input to the inverter (AC motot controller) for it to synthesize an AC output to the motor of 32V AC_rms Max. And I suspect it would do well with a Curtis AC motor controller if you have it properly tuned.

major

tallatghazi

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 2, 2018

major said:
The 48V DC figure is the battery voltage required as input to the inverter (AC motot controller) for it to synthesize an AC output to the motor of 32V AC_rms Max. And I suspect it would do well with a Curtis AC motor controller if you have it properly tuned.

major

Thanks for your quick reply, I forget to mention that Motor has 3 big terminals (U, V & W) as well as 2 independent sets of thin wires.

Sir, CURIS AC Motor controller 1236 will give 3-phase 48V AC input to motor, where as mentioned Motor is 32V, so will the motor not become damage?
and also kindly confirm is it okay to give 3-phase 48V AC input to motor?

major

· #4 · Dec 2, 2018

tallatghazi said:
Thanks for your quick reply, I forget to mention that Motor has 3 big terminals (U, V & W) as well as 2 independent sets of thin wires.

Sir, CURIS AC Motor controller 1236 will give 3-phase 48V AC input to motor, where as mentioned Motor is 32V, so will the motor not become damage?
and also kindly confirm is it okay to give 3-phase 48V AC input to motor?

If you use a 48V DC battery, the maximum rms AC phase voltage possible with inverters like the Curtis is around 32. No worry.

But should you choose to go to a higher voltage battery and higher voltage inverter, the motor very likely would tolerate the higher voltage well as long as your frequency is correct (inferring higher RPM) and the system is properly tuned.

major

tallatghazi

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 2, 2018

major said:
If you use a 48V DC battery, the maximum rms AC phase voltage possible with inverters like the Curtis is around 32. No worry.

But should you choose to go to a higher voltage battery and higher voltage inverter, the motor very likely would tolerate the higher voltage well as long as your frequency is correct (inferring higher RPM) and the system is properly tuned.

major

I have finalized to use 48V as my battery bank and Curtis 1236 (AC Induction Motor Controller) as my controller.
Based on your input, my Plan is to give:
48VDC to CURTIS 1236 and then from CURTIS 1236 (3-phase 48VAC) to Mentioned Motor (to 3-big terminals).

With the help of sticker on Motor, can you judge that is it an AC Induction motor?
With term "inverter" Do you mean Curtis 1236?

major

· #6 · Dec 2, 2018

tallatghazi said:
I have finalized to use 48V as my battery bank and Curtis 1236 (AC Induction Motor Controller) as my controller.
Based on your input, my Plan is to give:
48VDC to CURTIS 1236 and then from CURTIS 1236 (3-phase 48VAC) to Mentioned Motor (to 3-big terminals).

With the help of sticker on Motor, can you judge that is it an AC Induction motor?
With term "inverter" Do you mean Curtis 1236?

Yes, it is an induction motor, 61Hz & 1780RPM rated infers it is a 4 pole asynchronous motor. Yes, all solid state AC motor controllers are inverters. And as such, the maximum rms AC voltage is a little less than .707 times the DC buss.

major

tallatghazi

Discussion Starter · #7 · Dec 2, 2018

major said:
Yes, it is an induction motor, 61Hz & 1780RPM rated infers it is a 4 pole asynchronous motor. Yes, all solid state AC motor controllers are inverters. And as such, the maximum rms AC voltage is a little less than .707 times the DC buss.

major

Thanks a lot for your all input

tallatghazi

Discussion Starter · #8 · Dec 8, 2018

major said:
tallatghazi said:

I have finalized to use 48V as my battery bank and Curtis 1236 (AC Induction Motor Controller) as my controller.
Based on your input, my Plan is to give:
48VDC to CURTIS 1236 and then from CURTIS 1236 (3-phase 48VAC) to Mentioned Motor (to 3-big terminals).

With the help of sticker on Motor, can you judge that is it an AC Induction motor?
With term "inverter" Do you mean Curtis 1236?

Click to expand...

Yes, it is an induction motor, 61Hz & 1780RPM rated infers it is a 4 pole asynchronous motor. Yes, all solid state AC motor controllers are inverters. And as such, the maximum rms AC voltage is a little less than .707 times the DC buss.

major

Sir can you please confirm me that mentioned motor is a brushless permanent magnent 3-phase, AC motor and the CURTIS 1236 controller is an induction 3-phase motor controller. So will this controller be compatible with mentioned motor?

major

· #9 · Dec 8, 2018

tallatghazi said:
Sir can you please confirm me that mentioned motor is a brushless permanent magnent 3-phase, AC motor and the CURTIS 1236 controller is an induction 3-phase motor controller. So will this controller be compatible with mentioned motor?

The motor is an induction motor, NOT a brushless PM AC motor. Therefore, as an induction motor, it is compatible with the Curtis controller. It does need to be properly tuned, meaning having a number a parameters set in the Curtis. Tuning involves the use of a special handset or dongle & program. This is probably beyond you and would require you to send the motor to the Curtis dealer for the task. The handset programmer can be rented and it is possible that the dealer can "open" the controller software and instruct you how to self tune, but you should confirm that prior to purchase.

The best (easist) way is to use the controller from the original installation of the motor, or to purchase the motor and controller as a tuned package (for your application) from a reputable dealer.

Regards,

major

tallatghazi

Discussion Starter · #10 · Dec 8, 2018

major said:
The motor is an induction motor, NOT a brushless PM AC motor. Therefore, as an induction motor, it is compatible with the Curtis controller. It does need to be properly tuned, meaning having a number a parameters set in the Curtis. Tuning involves the use of a special handset or dongle & program. This is probably beyond you and would require you to send the motor to the Curtis dealer for the task. The handset programmer can be rented and it is possible that the dealer can "open" the controller software and instruct you how to self tune, but you should confirm that prior to purchase.

The best (easist) way is to use the controller from the original installation of the motor, or to purchase the motor and controller as a tuned package (for your application) from a reputable dealer.

Regards,

major

Can this motor also play a role as dynamo 48V DC?

major

· #11 · Dec 8, 2018

tallatghazi said:
Can this motor also play a role as dynamo 48V DC?

Any induction motor properly tuned and controlled with the Curtis has 4 quadrant capability meaning to motor or generate in either direction of rotation. If this is done with a 48 V battery, when mechanical power is delivered to the motor shaft, the battery will be charging or other electric loads can be powered.

tallatghazi

Discussion Starter · #12 · Dec 11, 2018

3

major said:
tallatghazi said:

Can this motor also play a role as dynamo 48V DC?

Click to expand...

Any induction motor properly tuned and controlled with the Curtis has 4 quadrant capability meaning to motor or generate in either direction of rotation. If this is done with a 48 V battery, when mechanical power is delivered to the motor shaft, the battery will be charging or other electric loads can be powered.

Sir,
Is this motor 3-phase, induction motor?
Can you also please confirm me that can this motor be used with Curtis 1236?
Can you please judge its input voltage?
Thanks

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major

· #13 · Dec 11, 2018 (Edited)

I think I have answered these questions already, but for clarity:

tallatghazi said:
Sir,
Is this motor 3-phase, induction motor?

Yes.

tallatghazi said:
Can you also please confirm me that can this motor be used with Curtis 1236?

Yes, but but the controller must be tuned for that particular motor, meaning certain parameters set to proper values.

tallatghazi said:
Can you please judge its input voltage?

The nameplate specifies 32 VAC (at the motor terminals) and 48 VDC (input from the battery to the controller). However it is up to you to decide what voltage to use. The motor would likely run fine with 3-phase AC voltage from ~5 to ~150 VAC. Of course you need an appropriate, tuned controller.

Regards,

major

EDIT

The above pertains to the motor shown in post #1.

The attachments on post #12 did not show up until I had posted this reply. The answers to the questions pertaining to the motor pictured in post #12 are:

No.

No.

No.

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brian_

· #14 · Dec 11, 2018

tallatghazi said:
Sir,
Is this motor 3-phase, induction motor?
Can you also please confirm me that can this motor be used with Curtis 1236?
Can you please judge its input voltage?

major said:
... The answers to the questions pertaining to the motor pictured in post #12 are:

No.

No.

No.

LOL

Agreed, but more specifically:

tallatghazi said:
Is this motor 3-phase, induction motor?

No, because the partially obscured label includes words engine in "ONOUS" and "OR", which are presumably "synchronous motor". The "U", "V", "W" terminal labels indicate 3-phase power, but an induction motor is not a synchronous motor.

tallatghazi said:
Can you also please confirm me that can this motor be used with Curtis 1236?

No, because the Curtis 1236 is for induction motors.

tallatghazi said:
Can you please judge its input voltage?

No, because there is no visible information related to operating voltage.

Emyr

· #15 · Dec 12, 2018

brian_ said:
No, because the partially obscured label includes words engine in "ONOUS" and "OR", which are presumably "synchronous motor". The "U", "V", "W" terminal labels indicate 3-phase power, but an induction motor is not a synchronous motor.

That label could say "ASYNCHRONOUS MOTOR". Better photo needed.

tallatghazi

Discussion Starter · #16 · Dec 12, 2018

Emyr said:
That label could say "ASYNCHRONOUS MOTOR". Better photo needed.

Regarding specific motor images mentioned in post#12 > Sticker clearly shows "PM SYNCHRONOUS MOTOR",
I think "PM" stands for "Permanent Magnet".
Yes this motor has 3 poles mentioning U-V-W.

brian_

· #17 · Dec 13, 2018

Emyr said:
That label could say "ASYNCHRONOUS MOTOR". Better photo needed.

LOL
Good point! Of course, it would probably be the first induction motor ever made with a label saying "asynchronous", but that would be technically correct.

tallatghazi said:
Regarding specific motor images mentioned in post#12 > Sticker clearly shows "PM SYNCHRONOUS MOTOR",
I think "PM" stands for "Permanent Magnet".

That's helpful. So...

yes, it's a permanent magnet type of synchronous motor, and
no, it won't work with the Curtis 1236, unless these controllers intended for induction motors can be programmed to run synchronous motors.

tallatghazi

Discussion Starter · #18 · Dec 13, 2018

Hi thanks all for your precious input.
Now I am in next stage and I shall be really grateful if any of (expert) can guide me that in attached image which wire color to be connected to Curtis 1236's which pin number?

As you can see in attached image, my motor has two set of thin wires:
Set-1(in white cover) > it has 1 red wire and 1 white wire.
Set-2(in black cover) > it has 1 red wire, 1 white wire, 1 black wire and 1 blue wire.

Thanks

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major

· #19 · Dec 14, 2018

tallatghazi said:
Hi thanks all for your precious input.
Now I am in next stage and I shall be really grateful if any of (expert) can guide me that in attached image which wire color to be connected to Curtis 1236's which pin number?

As you can see in attached image, my motor has two set of thin wires:
Set-1(in white cover) > it has 1 red wire and 1 white wire.
Set-2(in black cover) > it has 1 red wire, 1 white wire, 1 black wire and 1 blue wire.

Thanks

My guess, FWIW:

Two wire cable is thermal device like probably a thermistor.

The 4 wire cable is from the encoder. Likely a quadrature pulse generator. ?black-common, red-supply (5 or 12VDC+), blue-A phase, white-B phase.

You need to confirm wire/function guess and also determine the pulses per revolution, ppr. Does the device have a part#?. The pinouts can be found in the manual for the Curtis, available on-line.

Regards,

major

tallatghazi

Discussion Starter · #20 · Dec 14, 2018

3

major said:
My guess, FWIW:

Two wire cable is thermal device like probably a thermistor.

The 4 wire cable is from the encoder. Likely a quadrature pulse generator. ?black-common, red-supply (5 or 12VDC+), blue-A phase, white-B phase.

You need to confirm wire/function guess and also determine the pulses per revolution, ppr. Does the device have a part#?. The pinouts can be found in the manual for the Curtis, available on-line.

Regards,

major

Thanks,
I am using a used Hyundai AC Induction motor (attached image). Unfortunately its Nameplate (sticker is 90% not present).

I got my encoder wiring related answers on page number 9 of attached PDF and from attached "Curtis 1236" image (but still need your confirmation).

Encoder Wiring:
Pin7 = Black & Orange Wires
Pin8 = Blue Wire
Pin32 = Green Wire
Pin26 = Red Wire
Pin31 = White Wire

Thanks!

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