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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a problem with my motor ME1905 with Sevcon Gen4. This motor as I understand similar or identical to the ME1507 and the ME1616.
There is no spinning of the motor but just shaking and stuttering.
Batteries are full. The pack is at V99 and 96A.
The display shows a max of 28-32A drawn when pressing the pedal. No faults are flagged on the display nor shown on the test screen.
Would somebody have had a similar problem?
What would you suggest me to do or try?

You can see a video of the issue here:

If you note the yellow string is attached to the flywheel and it doesn't disappear or seen rotating only wind makes it move. The car is suspended from the ground and the flywheel and clutch can be rotated easily by hand from under the car.

Please help, I am so close to see it moving...
Thanks,
CZ
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
On the bench was spinning. Nothing was attached to the motor though. Only difference was the battery pack which was slightly different and with lower voltage as batteries were low.
Would the battery charge be a problem?
Wiring seam the same. I'll double check tomorrow but I am pretty sure is the same.
Any more clues?
Thanks
CZ
 

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Undervoltage could theoretically be a problem for Sevcon. I actually have a setup on the bench at the moment with a similar symptom, and haven't got around to troubleshooting it further. In short, I suspect that the software in Sevcon allows for controller to run even at severely low voltage - in my case it's a 96V controller that's hooked up to a 48V (57V charged) battery. It doesn't complain because the undevoltage threshold is configured low enough, but the motor just humms and doesn't run.

With that said, what's your Sevcon model in terms of voltage, and what is your actual battery voltage ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I think my config is similar to yours. My Sevcon is a Gen4 Size6 72/80. Was configured to run with a 2 BMW i3 modules, so at around 90V.
After your suggestions, my hypothesis are either is still a overvoltage setting, or a wire/pin not connecting propperly in the Ampseal 35 connector, or something else (still keep this option in the frame).
On the overvoltage hypothesis...
I was getting overvoltage errors at some point earlier in the process, but now I have been able to bring the voltage down and I don't get these errors anymore on the display. Voltage now is 99.2 on the display, down from 104.
Still there could be some issues with it.
Nominal battery V is set to 80.0V
Overvoltage Start cutback is set to 102V
Overvoltage limit was set to 103V
Undervolt Start cutback is set to 65.5 V (and for that reason I don't think I'll be able to test the system with only one of the batteries at 44-50V.)
Undervolt limit is set to 64.7V

When trying to fix my overvoltage error I did try to increase the overvoltage limit via the display controls and even when I was setting Overvoltage limit to 105V the overvoltage error would still show. IMO the setting change did not take effect when done via the display or there are other places where these are controlled and need also to be changed and I don't know about.
Any tips about setting these parameters?

I did have a look at trying to work with the DVT software but I have decided to do not use it to change things for the time being as I don't want to screw up things badly. I've opted to deflate the batteries instead.

On the other hypothesis. Would there be a specific pin that may cause the motor shaking seen on the video? The reverse? (this was mentioned somewhere on other posts I did see, but my reverse switch seems to work).
Any other throttle related pins could be loose?

Any help would be appreciated.
 

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A shaking motor usually leads me to carefully check the 3 phase wiring to the motor, and if that appears good, check for correct voltage to the encoder (+5v for this sevcon?)
You said you had access to DVT, you should be able to monitor things without messing up settings. If you can manually spin the motor by hand and monitor the motor velocity on your DVT, seeing positive and negative values there and at an expected rpm, the encoder is likely working correctly. It may still be expecting a different encoder direction when it tries to spin.
Next I would swap 2 phases on the motor and try again. If this makes a difference and the motor moves a rotation in any direction, even if jerky, you might be on the right track. Then you should be looking at correcting the phase connections and programmed encoder direction.
But, as you said it was working on the bench, I feel like that direction setting should not have changed accidentally.
Others can feel free to correct me on any of my suggestions as I have spent more time with these issues on Curtis than Sevcon
 

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Okay, so mine is an 80V Size 6 (I incorrectly said 96V because 96V is its normal upper voltage limit). According to the docs though the supported voltage range is 39.1 V to 116 V. So the overvoltage above should have been purely a configuration issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
@DMPstar If I check what I think are the encoder cables this is the grey coming out of the motor that has 7 wires. If I check the red and black I get a reading of 0.33V. Am I checking in the right place? In order to get to test the wires I need to unplug it, be aware, just it makes any difference.
The M1, M2, M3 cables look attached in the right place.

Motor vehicle Bicycle handlebar Electrical wiring Automotive exterior Vehicle


If my battery voltage was too high would there still be a cutback that could justify the 0.3V on the encoder (supposed) cables?
Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Okay, so mine is an 80V Size 6 (I incorrectly said 96V because 96V is its normal upper voltage limit). According to the docs though the supported voltage range is 39.1 V to 116 V. So the overvoltage above should have been purely a configuration issue.
Yes, when I was getting the error was for sure down to the configuration. And changing it via the ClearView display to a higher cutback V, it didn't take effect in my case. Is that expected?

I am now thinking of taking the batteries even lower.
Though the motor shaking issue still persists and the phase cable seem to be connected correctly. See pic in other post.
Thanks
 

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I would need to pull mine up in DVT to remember exactly what needed to be changed, but it was definitely more than one place that took those voltage limits, so cutback map was just one of them. I will check later tonight (morning here), and follow up.
 

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@DMPstar If I check what I think are the encoder cables this is the grey coming out of the motor that has 7 wires. If I check the red and black I get a reading of 0.33V. Am I checking in the right place? In order to get to test the wires I need to unplug it, be aware, just it makes any difference.
The M1, M2, M3 cables look attached in the right place.

View attachment 127404

If my battery voltage was too high would there still be a cutback that could justify the 0.3V on the encoder (supposed) cables?
Thanks
I highly doubt a cutback, or even a fault that did not open the main contactor would kill voltage to the encoder, I will look into the Sevcon pinout in a few minutes to determine which colo(u)r wires from which you should read encoder supply voltage, you will need to look at the main Ampseal connector under that orange blob, I'm just dealing with old devices that don't do internets as well as they used to... also working out of a barn at the moment with no access to a DVT license. I am no Sevcon expert and have only had to diagnose a few of them, so hopefully others here have advice as well.

I would like you to clarify a few things for us if you dont mind:
-Originally you said battery is at V99 and 96A, is this your voltage and capacity of your battery pack? Voltage as measured as you are diagnosing?
-What model of G4S6 Sevcon, or what does it say on the side? (i.e. Gen4 80V 550A)
-When you pressed on the throttle and said you saw 28-32A on your display, do you know if this was battery or motor current?
-Do you have access to DVT, as you had mentioned it?
-If you unplug the supposed encoder wire, does the motor still attempt to shake, or do you hear the main contactor open? In recent memory of one of the 80V 550A controllers, I was able to disconnect the encoder and temp connector and not cause a major fault, so the controller may have still tried to drive the motor in an erratic fashion.

-My most important Question: You said the wiring seems the same as the test bench... What wiring has changed between the bench test and where these parts now reside? Did you transplant the whole bench harness or drop your controller and motor into to a preexisting vehicle/ factory/ home made but different harness? What is the origin of the harnesses pertaining to the motor as connected?

Without knowing these answers yet, I still am leaning to a bad phase matchup or encoder direction, especially if you can verify that you were seeing ~30 battery amps on your display, as I would expect motor amps to be much higher (hundred +) if trying to jerk a bad phase setup at 0 RPM. Also not knowing what your display can show, battery amps might be more likely to be shown there than motor AC current.

just going to check that pinout if I can access it
 

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On your 35pin Amp connector, pin 26 is encoder supply + (5 or 10V selectable) and pin 15 is encoder supply negative. IIRC you may also measure from encoder positive to battery negative post for these rough measurements. Check what colour wires are coming from those pins and if they go into that grey multiconductor cable with the (**shudder) Delphi connector on the end.

Your theory of a possible mis-seated socket on that Amp connector is worth inspecting, as if you had done any changes to that connector between the bench and the vehicle a socket might have been pushed back when re-locking the red front retainer. Those connectors are finicky for pinsertion and removal, I have had that happen several times.


I am going to be away from the barn for a bit, good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
to clarify a few things for us if you dont mind:
-Originally you said battery is at V99 and 96A, is this your voltage and capacity of your battery pack? Voltage as measured as you are diagnosing?
-What model of G4S6 Sevcon, or what does it say on the side? (i.e. Gen4 80V 550A)
-When you pressed on the throttle and said you saw 28-32A on your display, do you know if this was battery or motor current?
-Do you have access to DVT, as you had mentioned it?
-If you unplug the supposed encoder wire, does the motor still attempt to shake, or do you hear the main contactor open? In recent memory of one of the 80V 550A controllers, I was able to disconnect the encoder and temp connector and not cause a major fault, so the controller may have still tried to drive the motor in an erratic fashion.

-My most important Question: You said the wiring seems the same as the test bench... What wiring has changed between the bench test and where these parts now reside? Did you transplant the whole bench harness or drop your controller and motor into to a preexisting vehicle/ factory/ home made but different harness? What is the origin of the harnesses pertaining to the motor as connected?
Thanks for your tips and sharing knowledge.
Here my answers to clarify further:
Voltage is 2 modules nominal 44V in series (~88). They have been overcharged a bit so in series they output 99.6V (measure as I speak).
The Sevcon Gen4 Size6 72/80V 550A - voltage range is from 39.1 to 116.
28-32A is what the motor consumes as this is the feedback dashboard display (ClearView).
Yes I do have access to DVT I just wait to learn a bit more about the software before trying anything that could make the issues worse.
The contactor connects when I switch the system on. I didn't hear the contactor opening when detaching the encoder cable, but I wasn't expecting it to do anything. It did flashed an error on display - this was DSP Encoder fault code 0x52c1.
The wiring is the same other than the power cables are just longer this time around.
The wire bundle has been slide through air ducts of the car but the Ampseal part is not so no stress has happened on that part. Still I know that if this is a wobbly pin, that may well be the source of the issue.
The whole wiring was made by the Kit's supplier.

I'll look into the Ampseal pin you specified to measure the 5 v expected.
Thanks for now.
 

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How do you get to display the windows shown in the first and second screenshot?
I know how to get to the last one. (sorry about the dumb question. Just don't want to screw things up in DVT)
Thanks
CZ
There are a bunch of buttons on that main tab, so the second column has Drive/Regen Volts Cut Map, and slightly lower there is Battery Limits. I am not sure if the two screens are basically just UI wrappers for the tree view, or if there are actually some independent values exposed. Just double check in both places to make sure values are what you expect them to be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
On your 35pin Amp connector, pin 26 is encoder supply + (5 or 10V selectable) and pin 15 is encoder supply negative. IIRC you may also measure from encoder positive to battery negative post for these rough measurements. Check what colour wires are coming from those pins and if they go into that grey multiconductor cable with the (**shudder) Delphi connector on the end.
CORRECTION - TO MY PREVIOUS VOLTS READING. Which I was reporting as 0.3
FYI
Now that I test the correct wires I do get 5.5 V on what it should be the encoder supply. I will double check the wires colour code as soon as I get to check the 35 pin Ampseal connector for possible misaligned pins.

This is just to correct my previous incorrect reading for this Voltage value, and I understand the encoder supply is as expected.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
@cricketo and all,
I may need some help to understand which parameter could be an issue.
As my battery now is at 99.4 V it feels its within acceptable boundaries.

Here you can see my Drive/Regen cutback values
Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Electronic device


Here the Battery limits
Colorfulness Product Rectangle Font Screenshot


My start cutback and overvoltage protection are set to 101.0 and 102.25 V

The other screen I did find odd was this one, note also the Error - Torque Mode (shown trough out to tell the true)
Product Rectangle Font Line Screenshot


Is there anything here that could cause the motor shake and not spinning?

The last piece of data that I can share is the Controller Report log
I wonder if I can get more useful data by getting this report log when in operational mode if at all possible.

"
ode 1 - Controller Report:
Product: Gen4 Size6 80V 550A
Software Ver: 0705.0013
Software Checksum: 0xccbd
Config Checksum: 0xd327
Hardware Ver: Abort 0x05040001
Product Code: 0x07055037
Serial Number: 2104104693
Current Faults:
0 : 0x4681 Unit in pre-operational
Event Log:
0x4201: 0x4884, 2.47, 10.68 48 * Sequence Fault
0x4202: 0x52c1, 0.0, 11.56 7 * Encoder
0x4203: 0x4681, 8.71, 11.7 10 * Unit in pre-operational
0x4204: 0x4f41, 0.0, 0.0 1 * Internal
0x4205: 0x5043, 0.0, 0.0 1 * Static Range Error
0x4206: 0x3441, 0.0, 0.0 1 * Host SW Upgrade
0x4207: 0x4dc3, 3.95, 3.95 1 * Supply critical
0x4208: 0x2401, 4.54, 11.57 35 * Login
0x4209: 0x5044, 0.09, 0.09 1 * Dynamic Range Error
0x420a: 0x45ca, 4.28, 10.64 41 * Motor high voltage
Fault Log:
1. 0x52c1, 0x00 0x02 0x00, 0.0 - Level 4, 11FF, ID 1 - Encoder
2. 0x4f41, 0x03 0x04 0x00, 0.0 - Level 3, 13FF, ID 1 - Internal
3. 0x5043, 0x29 0x36 0x07, 0.0 - Level 4, 1FF, ID 3 - Static Range Error
4. 0x52c1, 0x00 0x02 0x00, 0.0 - Level 4, 11FF, ID 1 - Encoder
5. 0x5044, 0x2c 0x01 0x02, 0.09 - Level 4, 1FF, ID 4 - Dynamic Range Error
6. 0x52c1, 0x00 0x02 0x00, 0.17 - Level 4, 11FF, ID 1 - Encoder
7. 0x52c1, 0x00 0x02 0x00, 0.17 - Level 4, 11FF, ID 1 - Encoder
8. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.1 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
9. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.1 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
10. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.11 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
11. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.13 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
12. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.14 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
13. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.15 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
14. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.21 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
15. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.23 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
16. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.24 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
17. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.24 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
18. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.24 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
19. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.25 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
20. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.34 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
21. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.4 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
22. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.69 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
23. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.7 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
24. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.85 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
25. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.88 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
26. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.89 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
27. 0x4dc3, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.95 - Level 3, 7FF, ID 3 - Supply critical
28. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 3.96 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
29. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 4.01 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
30. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 4.04 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
31. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 4.05 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
32. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 4.05 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
33. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 4.58 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
34. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 10.39 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
35. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 10.41 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
36. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 10.43 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
37. 0x4884, 0x00 0x00 0x00, 10.68 - Level 2, 2FF, ID 4 - Sequence Fault
38. 0x52c1, 0x00 0x02 0x00, 11.24 - Level 4, 11FF, ID 1 - Encoder
39. 0x52c1, 0x00 0x02 0x00, 11.4 - Level 4, 11FF, ID 1 - Encoder
40. 0x52c1, 0x00 0x02 0x00, 11.56 - Level 4, 11FF, ID 1 - Encoder
Timing information / Hours counters:
key hrs: 11.816666666666666
traction hrs: 0.4791666666666667
pump hrs: 0.0
steer hrs: 2.7
work hrs: 0.0
charge hrs: 0.0
pulsing hrs: 0.3
node hrs: 11.816666666666666
Operational Monitor:
Minimum Battery: 40.5
Maximum Battery: 105.3125
Minimum Capacitor: 11.125
Maximum Capacitor: 105.125
Minimum I1: 0.0
Maximum I1: 1125.0
Minimum I2: 32767.0
Maximum I2: -32768.0
Reverse Speed: -1524.0
Forward Speed: 5017.0
Minimum Temperature: 0.0625
Maximum Temperature: 2.5625
Force Pre-Operational [0x2800]: 0x01"
-----
Can you spot anything that could be related to the motor shaking behaviour I am experiencing?

Any help or tip would be much appreciated.
Cheers
CZ
 

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Yeah, that algorithm error may be a problem, though admittedly I haven't used PMAC 3D lookup table mode. Did you figure out motor characterization on your own, or the motor was paired with the controller when you got it ?
 
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