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my S-10

4K views 18 replies 8 participants last post by  brian_ 
#1 ·
I have an 89 S10 extended cab with 5speed manual. I would like to convert it to electric for my daily driver. I have good knowledge of working on vehicles. I have not done much fabricating but I know a guy. I would like to get hwy speeds and go 40-50 miles each way. I can plug in at work or with in walking distance is a solar recharging station the city put up. I have a concept and pretty sure I know how I am going to put everything in. Right now I am looking for motor ideas that will get me where I want to be. Then I will look at batteries, etc.
Any help is appreciated.
Also of course like everyone I want to spend as little as possible
 
#2 ·
I have a concept and pretty sure I know how I am going to put everything in. Right now I am looking for motor ideas that will get me where I want to be
Can you give us a hint how you are planning to arrange the drivetrain? If you've made decisions that affect gearing, that affects the motor choice...

Also of course like everyone I want to spend as little as possible
:D
 
#3 ·
My plan was to weld some cross members across the frame to securer the motor and fab a coupler to attach it to the existing manual tranny. Or if necessary I can have an adaptor plate made. Depending on what the motor needs to be best supported. I hope that answered your question, so you can help answer mine
 
#5 ·
My plan was to weld some cross members across the frame to securer the motor and fab a coupler to attach it to the existing manual tranny
That helps. So you're looking for a motor to run at similar speeds to the gas engine, because it has the same gearing available - it doesn't need enough torque to move the truck with just the rear axle gear reduction. It can be bulky, because it has the stock engine space available.

Can we assume that the battery will be split in two packs, under the box floor and ahead of the axle, one on each side of the propeller shaft... where the fuel tank and muffler were originally? If that - or perhaps that plus a pack replacing the spare tire - is enough capacity, only the motor, controller (inverter if AC), and accessories need to fit under the hood.

Or if necessary I can have an adaptor plate made. Depending on what the motor needs to be best supported.
Conventional transmissions are rigidly mounted to the engine, and supported by the frame only near the tail end. Unless you're planning some unusual setup with a jointed shaft between the motor and transmission, plus a front transmission mount and two (front and back) motor mounts, you need to rigidly mount the motor to the transmission, so you need that adapter plate. They're available ready-made, to emulate many engines including those used in the S-10, and for many common motors: CanEV adapters. I assume there are other suppliers as well, and of course you can make one or have one made.

I would suggest avoiding welding on the frame if you can. The stock engine mounts will likely be around the front of a compact motor, and somewhere within the length of a big "forklift" motor (such as the 9" diameter DC motors which madderscience mentioned), so a custom motor mount could be built to drop into the stock mounting points. I would take a tape measure to the truck (front face of transmission to engine mounts) and compare to the motor length (dimensions from one of the motor sellers).

Aside from supporting the front of the transmission, and the motor, you need mounts to take the torque of the transmission output. That's normally the job of the engine mounts.


Without a specific example, my guess is that this is one of the most common EV conversions in existence, with one motor in place of the engine in a compact pickup truck; even specifically the S-10 has been done many times. The only differences from one done half a century ago and today would be the sophistication of the controller and the type of cells in the battery. It might be worth looking for other conversions and copying selected features from them.

It would probably also make sense to look at the S10 conversion kit from Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd. (about halfway down the page), as a possible solution, as a model for how it could be done, or at least as a checklist of components needed. Of course they don't show how everything fits in the truck; the "how to" is part of what they are selling.
 
#4 · (Edited)
For a DC drivetrain use a 9" diameter motor like the warp 9 or advanced DC 9". If you want to spend a little (but not much) more the HPEV 144v AC system will give you regenerative braking which depending on driving conditions could add 5-10% to range all else equal, and a little more reliability but less HP per dollar vs. what you can do with DC.

For a 90-100 mile range at 55-60mph in an '89 S-10 chassis that is well dialed in you will need at minimum about a 30kwh (24 usable) battery pack. That's more than an original nissan leaf pack (24kwh total), but is exactly a 2016-17 leaf pack or 100ah at 300v or 200ah at 150v, and is a doable configuration with LiFePO4.

You will want to make sure rolling resistance is dialed in with good alignment and LRR or High PSI tires (like road tread light truck tires ; narrowest size that fit well) keep the transmission but put full synthetic oil in the tranny and differential, and if the diff is non-positraction use NON-posi gear oil, which is a little harder to find, but redline synthetic oils offer that option. Also put a fiberglass canopy on the truck (which is flush with the roofline) to improve aerodynamics somewhat.

good luck.
 
#7 ·
I agree with the other posters except that an 11 inch motor would be better
Yes, it's a hefty vehicle - and even heavier if actually used as a truck - and there's enough room for whatever electric motor is most appropriate. After all, a GM small-block V8 engine fits!

and you need to know that the Warp and other "DC EV motors" are just forklift motors with a nice coat of paint

I paid $100 for a lovely Hitachi 11 inch motor
:D
 
#11 ·
The original poster hasn't bothered to check in for four days, but while we're waiting for him to follow up...


Interesting :) Thanks for sharing that.

I had heard of the Solectria vehicles, but wasn't aware of the details. Their configuration for the S-10 won't work with wernettejr's predetermined design, but it does make sense. Placing the motors in the spare tire space frees up the middle of the truck for an uninterrupted battery compartment, and leaves the engine compartment for electronics and some batteries.

From Solectria E-10 Restoration:
The differential is not a stock Chevy rear end. It is some kind of quick change rear end.
While the housing has some of the appearance of a quick-change from Frankland, Winter's, or Speedway - with the side bells bolted to a central casting - it's not a quick-change. It looks like they found an axle with a non-hypoid ring-and-pinion to reduce drag in the gears, compared to the stock Chevrolet component. They may have even had one of the quick-change axle companies run a batch of axles with a simplified housing and direct input to the pinion shaft.

The tilt bed is slick... and presumably required with the original batteries.
 
#10 ·
There are reasons every major car maker uses AC motors in their production vehicles. Although price is not one.
Good point... but while the HPEVS and Tesla AC motors are induction motors, permanent magnet AC motors are used in these brands of hybrids:
  • Toyota/Lexus;
  • GM (Two-Mode other than CT6 PHEV), and
  • Honda/Acura;
and these battery EVs:
  • GM Volt, Spark EV and Bolt,
  • Mitsubishi i-MiEV,
  • Nissan Leaf,
  • Fiat 500e, and
  • Ford Focus
Permanent magnet synchronous AC motors are even more expensive than AC induction motors.
 
#14 ·
Yeah... but aerodynamic losses tend to dominate when at highway speeds.

Normally I go 70-75 on the highway (with the traffic flow), but I would like to have that extra speed top speed to pass if needed.

By changing the gearing my current consumption at highway speed will increase due to less mechanical advantage... but then again I will shift the torque curve back to a lower motor RPM, so I would be using less field weakening...

Thus I am not sure how to calculate it. ;)
My guess is that I will use more current, with the change in gearing.

I use around 200A @ 144V to go 70ish now... Its a truck, not aerodynamic at all. ;)
 
#17 ·
That's right Brian. I have not been around very long but I am the owner of an Azure Dynamics Motor set up in my Samurai (supposedly from 2010) which would make my drivetrain newer than my Wife's old 2008 Highlander Hybrid. As I learn more about Solectria and Azure Dynamics, I am finding more and more components out there than I would have guessed. Most are affordable too! Wolf here has really done a great job of integrating some almost forgotten but still very relevant EV technology with some of the "latest and greatest."

Unfortunately with the price of production EVs becoming more and more affordable, I have noticed a dramatic decrease in the DIY EV community over the past five or six years. I would have thought that the opposite would be true with more EVs being on the road/winding up in the junkyard. It seems however that many "EV owners" are actually leasing their vehicles, and that deters many people from dabbling into modifications.

For this reason, I am thankful for many of the long timers on this forum. Being a newer DIY EV student, I have had the pleasure of having the majority of my ideas and questions answered through someone else's experience. I particularly excited to see how Wolfs modified BMS(es?) perform in his truck. I would love to see an older EV model double its original range with new/old integration!

Thanks for your contributions on the threads Brian, your passion for sharing and gaining knowledge go helped me in making decisions on my own project!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#19 ·
I think people build projects either for the fun of doing it - and learning along the way - or to get something which suits their own preferences better than anything commercially available. This is true of race cars, street rods... and DIY EVs.

A lot of the early EV conversions were something that could not be purchased, but now can be... so no need for a DIY project if what you want is a compact car or luxury performance car. If you want a pickup truck, you still need to build that... :)

Even the learn-by-doing aspect has changed: EVs used technology that an average person could handle without getting deeply into computer technology, but now you either use very old technology, or blindly plug in expensive aftermarket hardware, or get deeply into the details of networked computer system that the manufacturer doesn't want you to modify or even monitor closely.

This degree of computer involvement is interesting, and has led to an interesting segment of DIYers who are very interested in the electronics of an EV project, with remarkably little knowledge of - or even interest in - the mechanical aspects of the vehicle carrying the electronics. It's good that people have different interests; perhaps the ideal DIY EV builder is a team with automotive, electrical power, and electronics specialist members.
 
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