[Yabert]

Hi all

I'm interessed to compare the Netgain warp drive controller and the Soliton 1 of the same price and power.

Spec and price:

Netgain: 2800$, 260v (325v peak), 1000A

Soliton 1: 2900$, 300v (340v peak), 1000A

The netgain is about half tall and weight of the soliton 1. Both uses IGBT and are greatly programmable. Soliton seem have more expertise and support from customer and designer (thanks Tesseract) and Netgain Warp drive seem less used.

So, which one will be the better choice, and why, for a 1200kg car conversion used an 11'' motor, 192v nominal battery pack. Maby upgrade in voltage later.

 

[Brute Force]

It's only bigger and heavier until you consider the stuff you have to throw in to make other controllers a functional system. A couple extras the Soliton 1 has going for it:

1. The contactor and precharge circuitry are built in. That makes for a more robust system and elegant wiring layout. It's also a few less components you have to purchase extra.

2. The water cooling is not required (depends on the application). No extra heatsink or cooling fans either. My dual controller/motor setup runs cool as a cucumber with just the air cooling they came with.

Just some thoughts to consider.

Steve Green

 

[Guest]

If I am not mistaken the Soliton 1 has a much higher Constant Rating than any of the others controllers. That is a very big deal. My vote is still for the Soliton 1 if I'd only have two choices. Net Gain may be good but no one has done any testing or at least no one has actually posted any performance issues with the controller. Good or bad we just don't have any good information on the NetGain controller.

Pete

I have a Synkromotive.

 

[rwaudio]

In my research I've decided on the Soliton1 if I want a high voltage controller, or a warp-drive if I want a "low" voltage controller to save some money. If I was going to go up a step in voltage on the warp-drive I would instantly choose the soliton1 because of the built in contactor and other features (now the soliton1 is cheaper) and the FREE setup/monitoring capability of the soliton1, to setup the warp-drive you need the dedicated $300 display. (that display would also double as some useable guages so it's not all bad, you are simply forced into that solution)

So in short I like the more open configuration of the Soliton1 because (although I can't say this for sure) it appears that software updates for new features would be free or atleast less costly than updates to the warp-drive. It's very clear that the sales model for the warp-drive is buy the box for a decent price, pay $$$$ for each upgrade or add on. So features like cruise control if ever developed would likely be 100's of dollars for the warp-drive. And for the soliton1 owners might be lucky enough to get a free software update. They have already provided configurable inputs and outputs that just need software behind them. The warp drive has no extra inputs/outputs so any new features will require new hardware tied to the CAN bus, so you have to buy hardware and software.

so my PERSONAL choices are:

Lower cost, Warp-Drive $1900 + 300 for display + ? for contactor. (160V / 1000A)
Prefered choice, Soliton1 $2900ish + ? other display/meter (300V/1000A)

I've gone back and forth about this exact choice on my blog, and while the last post says Warp-Drive because of cost, I don't think I will be happy without a Soliton1. (It can drive the fuel guage!!! working guages are important to me)

 

[dimitri]

Don't forget that Soliton is made by people who spend considerable time on this forum, helping everyone out, answering questions, etc. I learned more about controllers and EV power conversion in general from these guys than I ever imagined. I don't see anyone from Netgain on the forum, despite their entire business relying on DIY community.

Also, not sure how true this is, but someone recently told me that you can't even get WarpDrive controller right now, they seem to be out of stock, while Soliton is shipping anytime, as far as I know.

I have 10,000 EV miles on Soliton1, I have the very first production unit. Its the best controller money can buy, as far as I'm concerned. Reliability has always been EVNetics top priority, and true no-bullshit power specs, what you see is what you get. They burned up a few motors and bunch of test units on their bench at their expense, so you can get a controller you can trust 100%.

And of course all the nice customizable features that no other controller offers, like idle, fuel gauge, etc etc

nuff said....

 

[Qer]

it appears that software updates for new features would be free or atleast less costly than updates to the warp-drive.

Free. The latest version can be downloaded from evnetics.com.

 

[rwaudio]

Free. The latest version can be downloaded from evnetics.com.

That's what I thought, and a huge plus for the Soliton1, and just like Dimitri mentioned the Soliton1 software programer is here to answer the software question! What more could we ask for?

 

[piotrsko]

I dunno, I'm biased by the signature, BUT my guess is that Evnetics have delivered as many or more units than Otmar ('zilla king), or possibly everybody else in this class. QC sounds better, I like the EE and programming geek, and I'm willing to bet that the first one that zorches ain't going to be the fault of the controller.

 

[Bowser330]

Hi all

I'm interessed to compare the Netgain warp drive controller and the Soliton 1 of the same price and power.

Spec and price:

Netgain: 2800$, 260v (325v peak), 1000A

Soliton 1: 2900$, 300v (340v peak), 1000A

The netgain is about half tall and weight of the soliton 1. Both uses IGBT and are greatly programmable. Soliton seem have more expertise and support from customer and designer (thanks Tesseract) and Netgain Warp drive seem less used.

So, which one will be the better choice, and why, for a 1200kg car conversion used an 11'' motor, 192v nominal battery pack. Maby upgrade in voltage later.

Others have already touched on a ton of reasons to choose the Soliton, I want to +1 the comment about 1000A Continuous Amperage, and the Soliton1 is also available in a 1400A "Race Version"...

And when you do decide to upgrade to higher voltage...keep this in mind, 1400A @ 270V (sagged) = 378kw = 500hp @ 4500rpm (Warp11HV)

 

[Tesseract]

I was going to stay out of this thread because I'm obviously biased and not even slightly apologetic about it - - but I wanted to correct a few minor misconceptions.

I dunno, I'm biased by the signature, BUT my guess is that Evnetics have delivered as many or more units than Otmar ('zilla king), or possibly everybody else in this class. QC sounds better, I like the EE and programming geek, and I'm willing to bet that the first one that zorches ain't going to be the fault of the controller.

Thanks for the kind words, piotrsko

Unfortunately, I suspect it will be quite a while before we sell as many controllers as Otmar did - he has a good ten years on us, after all... Then again, we almost always have controllers sitting on the shelf ready to ship, rather than let 6 months of backlog pile up, so maybe we'll catch up with him a lot sooner than I think... Nah, probably not. The DIY EV business is very low volume no matter how you slice it.

I did try to make the hardware design as indestructible as possible, but the Mythbusters motto - Failure is always an option - has a basis in reality, so I also tried to make any potential failure as benign and graceful as possible. This is why the main contactors are always inside industrial motor controllers and inverters - no way would a manufacturer of such rely on the end user to purchase the proper rated contactors, precharge resistors, etc. and then wire them up correctly, too. Not saying I don't trust y'all to not screw this up... okay, I am saying that...

the Soliton1 is also available in a 1400A "Race Version"...

Nope, as I explained in that PM I sent to you on 8/23, we discontinued the "race" version of the Soliton1 once we decided to build a "proper" racing controller. Too many people either said they wanted more voltage and current than even the Soliton1 race version could dish out or that they wanted to put the race version in their street EV, which we expressly warned against doing.

We are aiming for around 1MW in power output, btw...

 

[m38mike]

I've been shopping for a new controller for my Electro-Willys for about a month, and here are some of the things I've learned about the Warp and Soliton1 controllers.

The Soliton is a complete package for less than $3,000. It includes the contactor, the precharge resistor, the connections for external gauges. It will work with any voltage from 8 to 340 although it's recommended to keep nominal pack voltage under 300. It'll pass 1000 amps continuously if it's water cooled, or for 20 seconds plus or minus if it's air cooled. It has internal circuitry to protect itself from meltdowns. It's available within a week of ordering. It'll work with most throttles.

The Warp controller is not a complete package. The base unit will support up to 160v and up to 1000amps, but it requires a liquid cooling package. it is not rated for air cooling. It has external connectors for a proprietary data input/output panel. It does not include a contactor or precharge resistor. It has internal circuitry to protect itself from meltdowns. It is upgradable by the owner. It is not currently available, and requires a 2 month lead-time to order. It requires a hall effect throttle. The warrantee requires that it is fused.

By the time a new builder has bought all the external items needed to make a Warp controller fully functional, they would have spent within $100-200 of the cost of a Soliton1. There have been many testimonies in these threads of the stamina of the Soliton1. There have not been any so far on the Warp controller. I'm told by Warp dealers that they have many satisfied customers, but so far I have not received any names or numbers that I've asked for, so I can contact them directly for their evaluation. I see that not as a problem with the controller, but a lack of communication on the dealer's part.

I'm preparing my EV to endure a 4,000 mile drive to be done in one month. I want reliable parts for that trip. I think both the Netgain Warp controller and the Soliton1 would fill that need for me. My money will be invested in a Soliton (1 or Jr).

 

[Yabert]

I was going to stay out of this thread because I'm obviously biased and not even slightly apologetic about it

Hi Tesseract

I'm really interested by what you think about the Netgain controller because you know better than all us what is a good controller.

So I need to know why choose your Soliton instead Warp drive. I know the 4x shorter lead time and the build in contactor.
Exept this points, what have the soliton in more than the Warp drive??

 

[Tesseract]

I'm really interested by what you think about the Netgain controller...

I don't know anything more about the NetGain controller than what I can read on their website... sorry.

 

[LithiumaniacsEVRacing]

Lithiumaniacs EV Drag Racing Team uses the Soliton 1 Controller. We feel its the most advanced controller on the market.

www.ECEDRA.com

 

[Guest]

No one has come forward that has one of the Netgain controllers. The Soliton controller has a proven track record and has shown it's stamina and quality of build. You'e be hard pressed to find fault with one of these beauties.

Pete

 

[LithiumaniacsEVRacing]

No one has come forward that has one of the Netgain controllers. The Soliton controller has a proven track record and has shown it's stamina and quality of build. You'e be hard pressed to find fault with one of these beauties.

Pete

I agree 100%. I am sure we will see a Racing Version with more Amps coming!

 

[Guest]

That would be sweet. A contender to the Zilla. I think the Soliton will prevail. Can't wait to see one at the track. If someone already has let us know. Let us see, and by all means show the video. Please.

Pete