[Duncan]

Hi Kevin

You need to find where the forklifts go - there will be electric forklifts at places that do food or soft goods
Anything that would be spoiled by some exhaust soot

Find out who repairs them - and then visit - email and telephone are no good
You need to talk to the oily rags who do the work - they are the ones who will have stored up some motors "just in case" - you will require beer or folding money - or both to prize them loose

It took me quite a while to find our local elephants graveyard!

A decent motor is about 100 kg - and is an awkward heavy object that is normally only worth scrap metal value - $200

Which is why e-bay is no use

I'm at the bottom of South Island - our nearby "big City" is about 50,000 people - I'm sure that there will be a lot more where you are

 

[piotrsko]

Los alamos is probably too small for forklift rebuilders, but Phoenix isnt.
Raymond does electric , as does hyster, perhaps toyota, so you need independent rebuilders of those. Typically anywhere there is an amazon or walmart distribution center.
Brown & mills is a motor rebuilding shop chain.

 

[Moltenmetal]

Note that Duncan has a lot more voltage than you're planning, so he can push a lot more current through his motor.

I'll let the DC drive guys inspire you with how to do what you're planning and wish you good luck.

Note that the Subaru diff may improve reliability and may help with a more favourable final drive ratio for a direct drive- basically equivalent to driving my E-Fire in 4th gear. I can tell you that with my HPEVS AC50, the car would be an embarrassment to drive if it was always locked in 4th gear. DC motors do have more low end torque, which drops off as you go to higher speeds. They also need brush maintenance, and numerous people here have had motors pack up on them and need major re-work or replacement. Some manage to get them to last fairly well- sometimes on their 2nd attempt though.

 

[Duncan]

Hi Molten

The extra voltage helps the rpm - not so much the current

At one stage I had my controller set to 1000 amps but a 130v battery

It still took off like a scalded rat - but it was speed limited - as in full throttle gave me 100 kph - just

It only takes a few volts to get 1000 amps at zero rpm but the back EMF rapidly rises and at about 3500 rpm the 130v could only push 200 amps through the motor

 

[Kilomike]

I really appreciate all the feed back. I'll look around again for a forklift rebuild shop. Los Alamos definitely does not have a forklift shop, and from what I've heard Santa Fe doesn't either. I talked on the phone to the only one I could find online, which is down in Albuquerque. I'll look around again though. Phoenix is 8 hours away....

I still hesitate to go DC though as I sort of fancy the idea of direct drive. DC, and the limitation of advancing brushes and such, concerns me. I mean, there's a reason that all of the OEMs use some kind of AC correct?

Molten, I can definitely agree with your assessment of Direct Drive with the AC50. But I think the Hyper 9 will be in a better position to handle it. The Peak torque is 44% higher and power is ~90kw (~120hp) at the same rpm point as the AC50's peak power (~71hp at ~3500 rpm). As long as I can take off at a stoplight at a rate similar to normal driving of an ICE, then I'll be happy. From there I'm confident I can get the speeds I'll need for my drive to and from work.

Technical question: I know back EMF is a big issue for DC, is it for AC though? I'm not an electrical engineer, but my understanding of how the motors work would suggest that it isn't as much of an issue since the field is in constant flux instead of discrete steps field-to-field of DC.

Wife and I are going on a mini vacation, so I may be off for a few days. Again, thank all of you for the input and awesome discussion.

 

[brian_]

DC, and the limitation of advancing brushes and such, concerns me. I mean, there's a reason that all of the OEMs use some kind of AC correct?

Yes, even forklift trucks use AC now. Of course, the priorities of a manufacturer and of a DIY builder may not be the same.

 

[EVSpitfire]

Hi Kilo
See attached first-version of adapter plates with diff (I've modified them slightly from this) Rear plate, Top Spring plate, and forward plate, which all pick up existing Spitfire mounting locations.
The big thing is whether you decide to stay with the existing swing spring setup. If so, you must use the Datsun 510 diff which is exactly the same casing as Subaru diff, (not sure of ratio options) however the difference is the Datsun510 has bolt in stub axles which are required for the lateral load from the swing spring half shaft design. Adapter flanges required can bolt straight onto existing half shafts. The subaru/forester diffs use CV splined shafts held in with snap ring and can not take any lateral load.

Alternatively, in summary... I've gone to the trouble of converting over to the Triumph GT6 Rotoflex with lower wishbone. With other mod's such as MGF bearing, ford fiesta shafts, which then uses the sub'y CV stub-axles. more info available as a starting point for those interested. http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/...iots-guide-to-cv-conversion-on-rotoflex-cars/ and other sites... http://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/spit6whiteyFI/spit6whiteyFI_CV-axles.html

I should have my motor back in a week with adater finished for direct drive & park-brake... I'll use that to launch me into starting my own page and will go into a lot more detail.
steve

 

[EVSpitfire]

I realized there was no pic of the back plate in last post.

Also see pic of someoneelse's install with rotoflex red Subaru diff.
Also some pic's of the Datsun510 diff stub axle with adaptor plates to go straight onto spitfire half shafts.

 

[brian_]

See attached first-version of adapter plates with diff (I've modified them slightly from this) Rear plate, Top Spring plate, and forward plate, which all pick up existing Spitfire mounting locations.

Good work.

The big thing is whether you decide to stay with the existing swing spring setup. If so, you must use the Datsun 510 diff which is exactly the same casing as Subaru diff, (not sure of ratio options) however the difference is the Datsun510 has bolt in stub axles which are required for the lateral load from the swing spring half shaft design. Adapter flanges required can bolt straight onto existing half shafts. The subaru/forester diffs use CV splined shafts held in with snap ring and can not take any lateral load.

I know a guy who is an almost obsessive 510 enthusiast, who has built many of them, with friends. As I recall he said a while ago that they now use Subaru diffs, because the Datsun hardware is now rare. That will vary by location, of course.

 

[EVSpitfire]

Hi All
For the record. I don't take credit for the original adator plate design and concept! that was actually done by some guys in NZ making kit cars. I hunted them down, and they were not interested in making more, but happy to pass on the info. I now have a third batch in production (10 sets) available to keep them available to people like us. PM me if anyone interested.

 

[Kilomike]

EVSpitfire,

That is some invaluable information about the diff for sure. At least for this first pass I'm going to try to use the stock final drive. I would like a 4.11 or higher ratio offered by some R180 configurations, but I think I need to stay as simple as I can on my build. If I blow up the stock diff then I will definitely be coming back to these posts, but hopefully I can save some time and money in this first year!

On the hardware, do you have design files you'd be willing to share? I'm a design engineer and hobby machinist. Would love to have them just in case, and if people in the US are interested I could go about getting a small production run made.


In other news, I'm closer to getting the garage ready for the Spitfire! Wiring and plumbing is done. Should be insulating this weekend and putting up walls soon after. With any luck I'll be ready to start disassembling the Spitfire in November! Now the question of when to start ordering hardware comes to mind....

 

[piotrsko]

Fwiw: the stock pinto 4 banger differential held up suprisingly long with the built 302 pushing it. It died due to lack of lube one hot night in Yuma.