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We should all be grateful to Dave for providing us with a method to modify the Zivan. I have my micro working now but it's not because I understand it. I have had trouble getting the voltage to match what I want for my lithium pack. I went back to the control board schematic. It's analog, so I can read it. I made some assumptions, one, that the digital pot would be centered, and two, that the analog pot would have the same voltage. This results in the a/d pin being 2.52 volts. For my battery, it results in a ratio of 54. When I changed the number from 72 to 60, I was able to adjust my output to 135 volts. I think I will change it again to 54 and test that.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #102 ·
Bob- Do you have an original part number on your charger? Since it was originally configured for 20 6V batteries, I think it should have been a 120V charger profile. If that was the case then you probably want to leave the number of cells in the system at 60 and adjust your pot. Unfortunately, I can't find my notes I made on the pot adjustments or I might be able to tell you where to set it. I'll try to find them. I recommend getting the pot settings correct and then making your voltage adjustments through the code.
 

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Discussion Starter · #103 ·
Found my notes from an earlier post. Here they are again.

Here is why I consider my 144Vdc charger to be based off of a 2.0V cell tension. This is all based on the circuitry that is on the right half of page 1 of the control board schematics. U7A generates a buffered reference voltage (Vref) 1.954V. U6D buffers the voltage divided battery input. If my battery pack is at 144V and the voltage pot is set to 0 ohms (left schematically) then the buffered voltage (Vbatt_divided) out is 1.999V. If the battery pack voltage is 144V and the voltage pot is set to 2k ohms (right schematically) then the output is 2.588V. This tells me that there is a 481k ohm voltage divider resistor on the power board. Likewise for a 144V system, they assume 12 batteries with 6 cells each or 72 total cells. Again the voltage divider math works out 6.8k + 2k + 481k =~ 490k, or another way to look at is 6.8k ohms/cell * 72 cells = 490k.
 

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Discussion Starter · #104 ·
Bob - Refresh my memory, how many Li cells are you using now?

One way you should be able to set the pot is to measure your current pack voltage and divide it by the number of original lead acid cells. I think it's 60 in your case. Then tweak the pot until the voltage on the voltage a/d pin measures that voltage. For example if your pack is currently at 135V then you want the a/d pin to measure 2.25V. Once your pot is set you shouldn't need to touch it again.
 

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I have a NG1 labled max voltage 58.8 volts is anything you folks are doiing with modifying these chargers capable of raisng the voltage on this charger?
Assuming that an NG1 with that ending voltage is the same one used for 48V lead acid packs, based on my NG1 (and NG3) for 48V lead acid, that they can in fact put out as much as 72V. I found this out by adjusting the voltage trim pot to the max while charging a LiFePO4 pack. I subsequently had both of them programmed by the US Zivan dealer for 69.3V saturation for my 20 cell LiFePO4 pack.

Edit: I forgot to add that the factory programming doesn't use current as a cutoff criteria so it will only taper back toward 0A until the timer times out. At least that is how mine ended up working. That is just one reason the control board replacement that this thread is about is such a useful modification.
 

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These are the results of my charger now. I have changed lines 145 and 186 to reflect the lower voltage of my system. I did not change line 147 because I don't understand it. My output voltage is adjusted to 135 volts. The voltage on the adc pin is 1.86, which is lower than it should be. The divided voltage from the battery, which is on one end of the analog pot, is 2.36 volts. The 470k resistor on the board has a 5% tolerance so there will be a variation here.
When I plug it in, I get a beep and the fans come on. There is a momentary red light, then both come on. The load is two 100 w bulbs in series. I can use it like it is after I check the current limit when it is connected to the battery, but I think there might be some tweaking left to do.

Bob
 

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This forum seems to have gone dormant. I have finally reinstalled my Ng3 in the E914 and here's how it works. The charger was adjusted with a 600ma load to 135 volts, using what I believe to be my most accurate voltmeter. The battery voltage had been run down to 133 volts. When I connected the charger to the battery and applied power, the current went to 12.35 amps and the red light came on. When the voltage rose to about 134.5 the yellow came on and the the current kept decreasing. I disconnected when the current got down to 300ma so I don't know at what current the device goes to idle. If I ever take it apart again, I'll set the idle up somewhat.

Thanks again, Dave.

Bob
 

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I'm following your progress, Bob. I've put the project to the side for a bit to work on some other pressing projects. I want to make sure the new chip will work in my NG1 before I pull the old chip again. I don't think the soldered on broken pin on the old chip will survive being removed again from the socket. I suppose I could just buy a new chip from EV Conversions, just to have on hand, but knowing them they wouldn't just send me one without having to send the whole charger into them for installation. :rolleyes:
 

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I found your thread recently as i would like to make a few adjustments to a spare NG3 i've got , thought you might like to see this image of what must be a remote control of the output which i think was designed to interface with a BMS , my question is has anyone got a similar control on thier Zivan as it would be handy to make use of it but i don't know how to ?
A little background is it came out of a small production run conversion of a Citroen C1 using in my case 32 x 160ah TS cells and the surprising thing is the cover is marked 96v but it goes into float/balance at 132v (4.125v/cell ?)The car has a sophisticated BMS which i believe has capacity to balance on discharge as well.
 

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my question is has anyone got a similar control on thier Zivan as it would be handy to make use of it but i don't know how to ?
The black box has the characteristics of an opto coupler and is controlled by the GEL BMS with a 0-5V signal.
This modification, according to the guy that wrote the BMS software, was made in an attempt to control the charger to pull back the current supplied in the latter stages of the charge.
To be more precise, it does not regulate the current... it regulates the voltage (which will of course affect the current, so the statement is not entirely wrong;))
The voltage can be adjusted 10-20% only.

In my humble opinion this is a hack that has little to no effect, and we've therefore decided to cut the connection to the BMS and refit the multiturn potmeter (details on the potmeter is to be found here: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=353628&postcount=2)
 

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David,

FWIW, Attached are photos of the logic boards in my 115V NG1 and 230V NG3 both with the same programming. The paper work says it is the ZV curve #7 but the sticker on the chip says ZV6, in any case it is set for 69.3V Saturation and the current just tapers down close to zero until the timer during the "yellow" phase times out.
Here is the NG1 115V control board:



Here is the NG3 230V control board:
Do you by any chance have a picture of the power board of the NG3?

There seems to be resistor(s) labeled R20 and R21 close to the battery input of the power board that control the voltage level of the charger.

I have one charger rated output of 144V with a 560K resistor in R20 and a 120V output with a 470K resistor. The ratio is 120/144. (Oddly the 120V output has two identical resistors, the 144V output only one).

I suspect that the output of that divider goes into Pin 12 of the control board (I read 1.95V there when I apply 105V to the 120V charger). That's then compared with the magical 1.954V so frequently referenced and this difference is the input to the A/D on the board (pin 18).

In this case, the control boards (and the programming?) would stay constant across the various voltage outputs (presumably within reason - the limits of the components on the power board). Changing a 120V to a 96V or a 72V would just involve changing the R20/R21 resistor.
 

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I think we're looking at this wrong. This is unverified, although the voltage measurements and the comments in the thread seem to suggest it's true. Update - everything seems to be correct. I have yet to go through a whole charge cycle, waiting for better weather, but the voltages seem to be correct.

If you assume that there is only one control board, which seems reasonable since they're surface mount and so being produced in some quantity somewhere, then the whole problem simplifies.

Now you have to not read the manual so that you never hear the concept of "cell tension". That's just a red herring introduced by Zivan to throw Dave off the track.

If the control boards are all the same, then the change is on the power board. The only one I've seen is the resistor near the input.

We now have two variables, the power board resistor and the setting of the U-Pot.

// value in K ohms of the resistor(s) on the power board - my board
#define POWER_BOARD_RESISTOR 470f

// the value of the U POT - easiest plan is to leave it at one end (zero) or the other (2).
#define U_POT_RESISTANCE 2f

// given the power board resistor value and the resistance of the pot
// we have two components of the voltage divider that gets us the max
// and min voltage readings for this controller.
// The remaining component is the 6.8K (R9) on the NG3 schematic which is
// in series with the 0-2k pot.
// Lets say the resistance on the power board is Rp and on the control
// board the sum of 6.8k and the pot is Rc
// The minimum voltage we can read is when the output of the voltage divider
// is the same as the 1.954V reference.
// This is given by (Rp + Rc)/Rc*Vout
// Vout is 1.954 so:

float rc = 6.8 + U_POT_RESISTANCE;

float minVoltage = (POWER_BOARD_RESISTOR + rc)/rc*1.954;

// Now Dave as stated an inverse gain of 100k/15k
// 0.15
// suspiciously, given an A/D range of 5V 5*0.15 = 0.75V
// 1.954 + 0.75 = 2.704 which is remarkably close to the 2.71V input to U11A
// on the NG3 schematic
// For the sake of argument, let's assume that the max voltage, the point
// where the A/D will read 5V is at 2.71V.
// Repeating the calculation above:
float maxVoltage = (POWER_BOARD_RESISTOR + rc)/rc*2.71;

// The voltage range - a minor optimization
float voltageRange = maxVoltage - minVoltage;

Now, the digital pot just scales linearly:


// the digital pot bits scale linearly
digital_pot_bits = (unsigned char)(constant_voltage-minVoltage)/voltageRange*256;

And the voltage from the A/D just falls out from all of this:

// now the voltage can be calculated from the A/D readings...
voltage = ((float) voltage_bits)/1024*voltageRange + minVoltage;


So, what's up with the current? Is it the same on a 115V and 230V charger, or is it different?
 

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"Do you by any chance have a picture of the power board of the NG3?"

NG3 96v View attachment 18934 NG3 144v View attachment 18935
One of those resistors is 390K (I think) which would be about the right ratio:

390K ohm - 96V
470K - 120V
560K - 144V

However you labelled that as the 144V which, if true, blows the theory completely. It it's the 96V then it confirms the theory. The resistor on the other board (which doesn't look original) seems to be 300K. Is that the board where the 2K was also replaced? The 144V I have seems to be 560K.

A little mod that EEC put in instead of the 2k pot View attachment 18933
Did they explain the function of the extra board?

What is the function of the left hand pot on the power board ?
Something to do with the current output. I haven't made it that far yet.

The approach seems to be to put a clamp meter on the input (or output) and turn the pot until you reach the desired current level.
 

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390K ohm - 96V
470K - 120V
560K - 144V

60V seems to be 220k but, it has two of them. It seems that sometime's it's one and sometimes two, but I don't really understand why. They also seem to be 5% (rather than most of the others which seem to be 1%). Not sure that matters since the idea seems to always be to make a final adjustment with mechanical pot.


The 120VAC/104VDC(now) charger has been run through a few charging cycles. All seems well. I have not got the current limiting digital pot to work (considering it's the topic of the thread maybe I should spend a little time to figure that out) but the mechanical pot still controls the current.

It occurs to me that I should check the components on the power boards of the various systems and make sure that the components on the 60V are rated for the 120V I'm hoping the change this to...
 

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I have a used NG3 - it's set to charge LeadAcid at 144V. I want to alter the output voltage using the blue trim pots as mentioned in this thread.

However, the other instructions about measuring the output voltage do not work for me.

The instructions I've read say set the selector to 7 or F and disconnect any load on the output. In both cases when I test, I get a red flashing light and the on/off beeper/buzzer.

Does anyone have any tips for measuring/setting the NG3 output voltage?
Thank you.
 

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Need to capture this information somewhere...

R20 on the power board goes to pin 12 on the control board. (This is the whole voltage divider circuit that lets you control the output of the controller). This is in the middle of page 1 of the control board schematic linked earlier in this thread.

R21 on the power board, which is not always populated, but when it is, seems to be populated with the same resistance as R20, goes to pin 15 on the control board. This is middle-left of page three.
 
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