Nissan Leaf into something else.

nexsuperne said:

I have looked further into this. The tow issue on the Leaf is down to the type approval in the UK.

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Nissan's reason for this is probably that performance of the electric powertrain under towing loads would not be acceptable, but it might be that there is insufficient rear suspension capacity to handle the hitch load (in addition to the battery pack). I don't think it's accidental that the Leaf body style - despite being a hatchback - minimizes the cargo room available; they don't want you to try to carry very much. That doesn't really matter in a way, because...

nexsuperne said:

No one makes a tow bar for the Leaf with the correct standards stamped into it, as required for all vehicles manufactured after 1998. This is because Nissan gave it a Zero KG rating.

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This is the practical issue. Even if you were willing to operate with unapproved components, the usual fix of adapting a towbar from a related vehicle presumably won't work, because the Leaf doesn't share body structure with another Nissan model (as far as I know), the way many hybrids and some EVs are based on gas-engined models. For instance, even if an eGolf isn't rated for towing, a regular Golf towbar probably fits.

Whether or not a Navara would really be suitable for towing with a Leaf powertrain, in practical terms it seems likely that no one would bother you about towing with it, and there are certainly towbars available.

nexsuperne said:

As for changing the propulsion type and if it can still tow in the Navara, I need to look into that.

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The question is really whether the control system can limit power to avoid overheating the motor, controller/inverter, or battery... or whether you are patient and diligent enough to do that yourself. And, of course, there's the question of range with the motor working much harder than it does in a non-towing Leaf.


Do you have a spare Leaf? A complete Leaf powertrain (motor with inverter and gearbox) in each end of a Navara would be well-suited to the load of the heavier vehicle with cargo, although the chassis wouldn't have much payload if you squeezed in both battery packs.

Maybe I am looking at this completely the wrong way. I was looking at the Navara, as it was practical for throwing logs in the back of, running my on board air compressor, 230V inverter, various tools, front and rear winches etc. If I buy the Model 3, then it will cost me £30K. For £5K I can a pick up in really good condition with a dead engine/gearbox etc.
I want to use the Leaf cells, as I have a Leaf to use the parts from. I completely get the issues with the pickup aerodynamics, and the 2 motor suggestion.
I am trying to keep this simple, and from my very limited experience, I would like to get a suitable motor and controller to mate with the Leaf cells in whatever voltage combination.
I know I can just bolt a motor to the existing transmission, but that seems so full of parasitic losses. The diesel motor that the electric motor would replace would have similar rev ranges, but I don't know about the torque/BHP curve on the DC motors.
Ideally, I would want a motor which would make this light the tyres up in low gears, but perhaps keep the economy about 500W per mile. With Leaf cells, that would give me a realistic range of about 50 miles. I can always add more cells, or build my own 18650 based packs when time allows.
I can't really work out from the youtube videos if the DC motor conversions are any good on the pickups. They all seem to be driven really gently, with no open road wide open throttle tests.
I know that the Zombie 222 goes like a scalded cat on DC, but to have that under a pickup would be bonkers! Even a 5 second 0-60MPH, in what was a 12 second diesel, would be incredible.

Would anyone know what the maximum discharge current is for the Leaf cells? I would guess at 4C, so on a 66AH pack, I could pull a theoretical 264AH at 360V (roughly 90KW). I say guess, as the Leaf motor pulls 80KW at full throttle, and there must be a safety margin.
If I double up on the cells to create another parallel pack, then with 160KW (215BHP) motor on a 44KWH usable battery at 500W per mile, it would give me a respectable 85-90 mile range.

TIA

nexsuperne said:

I am trying to keep this simple, and from my very limited experience, I would like to get a suitable motor and controller to mate with the Leaf cells in whatever voltage combination.

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Take a look at Damien's (user jackbauer) website which has lots EV projects using various battery cells (including Leaf) and motors. Damien has undertaken both direct drive and transmission based solutions;

http://www.evbmw.com

You might also take a look at the evwest conversion kits;

http://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40&osCsid=h2jdq3aev8e0stck81euu4vl23

I also hear good things about the EV4U 3 day courses which would answer many of your questions;

http://ev4unow.com

If you're in the UK I'd be happy to show you around my EV workshop if you're quick (we're in the process of moving it to the US).

dcb said:

A. that is false. i.e. http://actiondonation.org/state-by-state-rv-and-towing-law/ and also on the liability end if you have exceeded hitch capacity for example, or under the umbrella of not securing a load.

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It's true that I should not have said that there is no regulation of towing equipment, as there are regulations calling the use of specific equipment - safety chains and brakes. How that equipment is designed and constructed is a free-for-all. The well-known standards (the old VESC V-5 and current SAE J684) are not regulations.

There are laws about the equipment on the trailer, and the weight of the trailer relative to the tow vehicle; however, they have nothing to do with the rated capacity of the tow vehicle. V-5 and J684 say nothing about the vehicle itself or even how a hitch is attached to the vehicle. If you want to tow a ten-ton trailer with your Geo Metro - using of course a hitch rated for the trailer load but attached with only a few sheet metal screws - you can legally go for it... as long as the tongue weight is kept low so the Metro isn't over GVWR or rear GAWR.

To be fair, some jurisdictions which have requirements that the tow vehicle and trailer rig be able to stop within some (generously long) prescribed distance from some (laughably slow) speed... but trailer brakes alone make that easy to achieve.

In more practical and relevant terms...
A Leaf can probably safely tow a trailer weighing a ton or two, if the trailer is equipped with suitably controlled brakes. As far as I can see, it can legally do that in any state or province, despite the zero towing rating by Nissan. Reliability of the Leaf is another matter, and not the subject of legislation. At the same time, a Smart ForTwo which absolutely cannot handle two tons of trailer (and is also has a zero rating) is equally legal.

If an inadequate rig fails, and causes property damage or injury to a third party, the most likely legal consequence is a civil lawsuit... not a violation of a regulation. Even if all the parts and practices involved as within ratings and meet standards, a civil action can find the operator at fault - there's not much reason here, just legal precedent and public opinion. In any case, if the rig doesn't crash, the towing stupidity is allowed without restriction.

As I understand European regulations, the existence on the road of a trailer attached to a vehicle by a hitch without type approval (specific to the vehicle) is a violation, no matter how appropriate the rig or well-constructed the hitch. I actually don't see a problem with this, as the well-constructed rigs which are prevented from operating by this bureaucracy must be much less common than the unsafe piles of crap allowed by our rules here.