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Discussion Starter #1
vBulletin Message

You have been banned for the following reason:
No reason was specified.
Date the ban will be lifted: Never


I joined another vBulletin forum El Moto (DIY electric motorcycles) a few weeks ago to share my El Moto (electric motorcycle conversion)

http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4789&goto=newpost

Two members, Ted Dillard & Electro Flyers aka Electro works (probably aka LH too) "trolled" "flamed" & "hated" on my creation soo much that I felt that I had to defend my work/craftsmanship. Then they reported me & got me banned for 7 days.


As soon as the ban was lifted I tried to finish "my story" & they started again & ultimately, my thread was deemed "unreadable" & got closed/locked.


So, I tried again to finish my story & not respond to the "haters" & again they started with insults & innuendos.
(remarks like, "maybe I have a mental condition' or "brain damage"...in my thread) ...Seriously?


When I reported this behavior to the "moderators" (Ted's friends) I got the message above "Permanently Banned"

WTF
 

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That appears to be a forum participation and moderation issue, rather than anything related to the software (or the forum operator), so I don't see any point to the "vBulletin" reference.

There are lots of issues in many (probably most) forums, but as a quick read of that thread reveals, there is always more than one side to the story.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That appears to be a forum participation and moderation issue, rather than anything related to the software (or the forum operator), so I don't see any point to the "vBulletin" reference.

There are lots of issues in many (probably most) forums, but as a quick read of that thread reveals, there is always more than one side to the story.
1.) The vBulletin reference was due to the fact that while I was Banned from the El Moto forum, I also mysterioustly got "logged out" of this forum too.

It did not recognize my user name & would not let me log back on.

But, after the (7) day ban was lifted I could also log back into this forum again.
...coincidence?


2.) "... quick read"?

I was simply trying to share my electric motorcycle conversion with other electric motorcycle enthusiasts & these (2) guys "came at me" several times, in "my thread" interrupting & spoiling "my story"

Your Ok with that kind of behavior?
 

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1.) The vBulletin reference was due to the fact that while I was Banned from the El Moto forum, I also mysterioustly got "logged out" of this forum too.

It did not recognize my user name & would not let me log back on.

But, after the (7) day ban was lifted I could also log back into this forum again.
...coincidence?
While it seems like an extraordinary coincidence, I don't see connection between the forums. There is nothing similar in the appearance (despite using the same software package), and no connection in the domain registrations.

There is overlapping membership in these two forums, but while it is possible that an administrator in this forum could take action based on what they saw in another forum, it seems unlikely to me that they would do so without notice. You could ask an administrator, but to assume anything seems unwarranted.

2.) "... quick read"?

I was simply trying to share my electric motorcycle conversion with other electric motorcycle enthusiasts & these (2) guys "came at me" several times, in "my thread" interrupting & spoiling "my story"

Your Ok with that kind of behavior?
I am not an owner, administrator, or moderator of any forum. As a member, I would not in general find such interruptions acceptable; however, every individual situation should be handled as appropriate to that specific situation.

In this case, unless there is confirmation that some action was taken in this forum based on the events in ElMoto.net, I personally do not think that this topic belongs in this forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
While it seems like an extraordinary coincidence, I don't see connection between the forums. There is nothing similar in the appearance (despite using the same software package), and no connection in the domain registrations.

There is overlapping membership in these two forums, but while it is possible that an administrator in this forum could take action based on what they saw in another forum, it seems unlikely to me that they would do so without notice. You could ask an administrator, but to assume anything seems unwarranted.


I am not an owner, administrator, or moderator of any forum. As a member, I would not in general find such interruptions acceptable; however, every individual situation should be handled as appropriate to that specific situation.

In this case, unless there is confirmation that some action was taken in this forum based on the events in ElMoto.net, I personally do not think that this topic belongs in this forum.
It seemed to be censorship to me
...& I wanted to share this info, with my friends on this forum
...& warn them of these guys antics.


Electro Flyers on El Moto ...is Electro Works on DIYelectriccars


Ted Dillard is currently on here (if you look down @ the bottom of the page)
…& he even left a "spam" ad for his book on 3/23/2017 (which IMO should be flagged & removed)
https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182753
 

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oh HEY Kevin.

Yeah, I'm on here and have had some conversations with this site's admins about your post here as well. I honestly can't remember how long I've been a member here, (oh, I see 2011) but it's been a while.

Thanks for bringing that up. If anyone wants to decide for themselves, I'll give you the link to the beginning of the post: http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4789

That way, if you want to read it and decide for yourselves if we "came at me" several times, in "my thread" interrupting & spoiling "my story", you can. I think I chimed in about page 3. I welcome it. I'm very proud of the ElMoto forum and the members there. Honestly the only reason I'm responding to this trollbait is out of respect for them, and because you used my actual full name.

As far as my post about the book, more than a few members here contributed their time and dollars to help me, and I wanted to make sure they knew it was out. If you want to call that spam, be my guest.
 

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Thanks for bringing that up. If anyone wants to decide for themselves, I'll give you the link to the beginning of the post: http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4789
Well if that's supposed to be your best demonstration of how poorly behaved Functional Artist is...

I gotta say it sure doesn't, and makes you look like an asshole instead.

Just casually shitting on the guy's thread and talking down to him because of the camerawork on his project blog while taking the time to brag about your own skills.

It's just some guy doing his best to share and talk about and document his project and you're insulting him over it and then making fun of him thereafter because he's a little odd.

Frankly, you just come off as an egotistical bully.

Yeah, I'm on here and have had some conversations with this site's admins about your post here as well.
So, you bully the guy on those forums until he loses his cool a bit and then get him banned, and then stalk him here and try to get him banned here too?

At first I was gonna ask Functional Artist to just leave his drama at the door, but, knowing how it feels to be and see other be bullied, I'm a heck of a lot more understanding to his side than yours Ted.
 

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... and then stalk him here and try to get him banned here too?
Functional Artist created this thread, and in it attacked members of this forum... for what he feels they did to him in another forum. One of those forum members responded here, to the accusations made here... and even then only after three rounds of attack. That is certainly not "stalking" by the targets of Functional Artist's attack.

At first I was gonna ask Functional Artist to just leave his drama at the door, but, knowing how it feels to be and see other be bullied, I'm a heck of a lot more understanding to his side than yours Ted.
I, on the other hand, will be more explicit than my previous comments. By "there are two sides" I mean that Functional Artist's rant is clearly both unreasonable (based on a reading of the thread in the other forum) and inappropriate for this forum.
 

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... he even left a "spam" ad for his book on 3/23/2017 (which IMO should be flagged & removed)
So flag it if you have an issue with it. The Report Post tool is there (the "caution sign" icon in the corner of the displayed post) for you to use, instead of ranting about it in a forum post.
 

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Functional Artist created this thread, and in it attacked members of this forum... for what he feels they did to him in another forum. One of those forum members responded here, to the accusations made here. That is certainly not "stalking" by the targets of Functional Artist's attack.
Ehn, I don't want to get too much into this, but...

What he said is that is was suspicious that when he was banned on a different, unrelated forum, he was also given the exact same ban in this community. Which seems like a bit of a ridiculous conspiracy, for anyone to be that pathetic, until Ted admitted he had gone and contacted the admins here to make that happen.

This all happened before Functional Artist started this thread to complain about that suspicious occurrence. I mean, what else is he supposed to do?
 

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What he said is that is was suspicious that when he was banned on a different, unrelated forum, he was also given the exact same ban in this community. Which seems like a bit of a ridiculous conspiracy, for anyone to be that pathetic...
Yes, he had made that unsubstantiated accusation, and has apparently declined to take my suggestion and ask this forum's admin what happened.

Keep in mind that the "vBulletin Message" about a ban was from the other forum, not this one.

... until Ted admitted he had gone and contacted the admins here to make that happen.
Did Ted say that? He said that he discussed a post with this site's admins; I assume that the post in question is the original post of this thread, although of course I could be mistaken. If you are making a different assumption, perhaps you should get the facts before also attacking another forum member; if that means that you need to clarify the timing associated with Ted's remark, you could ask Ted.

I mean, what else is he supposed to do?
Well, he could address administration issues with the administrators, rather than rant in the forum making accusations. He could address personal issues with the individual members involved (using this forum's private messaging if he no longer has access to the other forum's tools) rather than taking a personal issue public.
 

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How do I unsubscribe to this thread? I don't post here at all, and can't find the prefs for that.

For the record, MattsAwesomeStuff, I did not ask Mike (ElMoto owner) to ban Kevin. I simply flagged posts I thought were inappropriate, though I did have a few conversations with Mike. I also got several PMs complaining about Kevin from other members, and some of those members who are also from here. As I said to several people on ElMoto, it's too bad it went that way, the guy does have something to contribute, but Kevin got himself banned, got plenty of warning and he has nobody to blame but himself. As far as talking to the admins here, that was about Kevin's initial post. Do the math. That was AFTER he got his 7 day ban and couldn't get on here. I'm sorry to even have to explain that to you.

So yeah, namaste motherfuckers. This ain't my forum, it ain't my home, and if y'all can live with Kevin and his "creations", and posting shit talk about fellow members then god love ya. I have a life to lead and work to do.

I WILL say, if anyone wants to behave like an adult, has a sense of humor, and is into building electric motorcycles, come on over to ElMoto and meet the guys. They're great.

(edit: Never mind, found the Unsubscribe button.)
 

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Keep in mind that the "vBulletin Message" about a ban was from the other forum, not this one.
Yeah, I suppose, though he says he was locked out here too.

I dunno, this whole thread is cringey.

If you are making a different assumption, perhaps you should get the facts before also attacking another forum member; if that means that you need to clarify the timing associated with Ted's remark, you could ask Ted.
I mean, I can see what kind of person Ted is from the way he acted in the other thread. My description of his character is based on that.

The stalking comment, I suppose I'm wrong about if he had nothing to do with that.

He could address personal issues with the individual members involved (using this forum's private messaging if he no longer has access to the other forum's tools) rather than taking a personal issue public.
Agreed.

I understand the motivation a bit, that if you're getting locked out without being told about it, that appealing to authority, when the authority was causing the problem, isn't the way to go and being public seems appropriate. But, I probably still would have tried.

I have a short fuse for people being badgered and insulted out of elitism, kind of makes me side with the victim by default.

Ehn. Not my circus not my monkey.
 

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I just went through the thread in question, and although some of the content was annoying, IMHO it hardly met the stated criteria for such heavy-handed moderation and permanent ban:

Forum Rules

Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Complete Registration' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index.

Although the administrators and moderators of ElMoto.net - the electric motorcycle forum will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this site, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of ElMoto.net - the electric motorcycle forum, nor vBulletin Solutions Inc. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.

By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.

The owners of ElMoto.net - the electric motorcycle forum reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any content item for any reason.
This situation certainly does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling about the ElMoto forum, and I see no reason to become a member or follow other threads, even if I were interested in a bike project.

I know I was a bit annoyed by some of the attitude shown by FA on his thread about the Lee-Hart Batt-Bridge, but it was my choice to follow and participate in that discussion. Other threads have been worse, such as the one by IAinventor with his E-loop and K-loop malarkey, but, again, I chose to follow and try to help. :)

I know what it feels like to be banned, especially when it happens without warning and is "permanent". That happened on the Victoria Stilwell forum where some members are so opposed to physical consequences for bad behavior ("punishment"), that even suggesting that you tell a dog "NO!" is considered abusive and you should just wear thick gloves and pants and ignore the dog until it gets tired of biting you. Yet the moderators there chose to use punishment on me. But I was able to use a different server and create a new identity and pose as a woman with a new rescued dog, and wasted their time by posting some fictitious stories. I even purchased "Anonymizer" software that routes web traffic through various IP addresses. ;)
 

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I understand the desire to help understand the events in ElMoto.org, but without consultation with the administration there, we don't know all of what really happened... and since this is not ElMoto.org, we don't need to.

After 15 posts, the only things relevant to this forum which have appeared are:
  1. Functional Artist has accused the administration of this forum of unfairly blocking Functional Artist's logins, but he won't even ask them if he was even blocked; and,
  2. Functional Artist has attacked members of this forum, in this thread,
    • for reasons unrelated to this forum, and
    • for a post in this forum which was unrelated to Functional Artist and which he did not flag as a concern.
Can we get back to DIY electric cars?
 

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I just went through the thread in question, and although some of the content was annoying, IMHO it hardly met the stated criteria for such heavy-handed moderation and permanent ban:

This situation certainly does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling about the ElMoto forum, and I see no reason to become a member or follow other threads, even if I were interested in a bike project.

I know what it feels like to be banned ...
So you want to judge? Here's the background I'm comfortable sharing. If you're going to be judgmental, you can be a little less ignorant of the facts.

Kevin was on for about 2 weeks when he was given a 1 week temporary ban. I only know of one other member in the 10 years I've been on who's gotten banned, temporarily or otherwise, other than bots. So yeah, that was some kind of a record.

If you read the thread, several members (not I) tried to contribute to the thread and suggest ways he could improve the readability. These he construed as "coming at him". Again, read it for yourself. A member here, frodus, after holding back for an uncharacteristic amount of time, posted this: http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4789&p=52930&viewfull=1#post52930 (same thread, in case you didn't read it entirely.) frodus, as you undoubtably know from this forum, isn't always so tactful and constructive (we've known each other a long time, and we try. Lord knows we try.)

This was his response: http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4789&p=53080&viewfull=1#post53080

At that point, I was happy to step off - I have a lot of work to do, and this wasn't even remotely fun or educational and the guy was clearly not interested in anything I had to say. Electro Flyers and frodus were trying to work with the guy (told to me via PM), but a funny thing was happening. He made a kind of schoolyard threat: "Bustin' your Balls, (keep messin' with me) you ain't seen nothin' yet" ...and suddenly I start getting spammed on my personal websites (which I use for income) by gay male porn stars who are mentioning ElMoto specifically. It was probably a good thing, because I'd just rebuilt all of my sites, and forgot to tighten up security. I went back and took a look, and asked Mike if he wouldn't mind giving me Kevin's IP address so I could add it to the Block list.

His response was to give it to me, and tell me he was banning Kevin permanently. It wasn't my request, my call, or even what I wanted to happen.

Funny thing, the hits on the site stopped immediately. I honestly don't think Kevin's capable of that kind of harassment, I don't think he's smart enough, but whatever, it was an interesting coincidence, since I don't really know any gay male porn stars who are into building electric motorcycles. I then tightened all the other stuff I'd forgotten about...

Besides that, Kevin cross-posts complete content from several other forums. That, in many forums I've been on, is grounds for banning all by itself. Here's what I observed: http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4824&p=53146&viewfull=1#post53146

If all that seems heavy handed, so be it. ElMoto is pretty much run by one guy with a day job and a couple of moderators who try to make a contribution, and they play it the way they see fit. I was a mod for a bit, and it's a suck job. This whole episode has made me cobble together some money to donate to the forum again.

--

By the way. The fact that you brag about bypassing a forum ban is pretty, um, sketchy in my opinion. The fact that you even explain how to do it, I consider straight out unethical, especially considering the fact that Kevin was banned from our forum. Good job, something to be proud of. If he reappears on ElMoto or bypasses my filters I'll figure we have you to thank, personally. Again, I've run forums and moderated them too. Guys like you are the reason it sucks.

Funny, I came back to post because it occurred to me Kevin started the thread because he thought that I had him banned on Elmoto (again - I did not) and on here simultaneously. That made me laugh so hard I wet myself, so I just wanted to add a little comment. I mean, yes, I have those powers, but I wouldn't waste them on him. (That was a joke, for the humorless trolls reading this.)

I remember spending long hours on this site reading Ripperton's thread, where he was doing stuff like building a frikkin motor and a race bike and shit. Sad to see what kind of crap you guys want to talk about now.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Yes, he had made that unsubstantiated accusation, and has apparently declined to take my suggestion and ask this forum's admin what happened.

Keep in mind that the "vBulletin Message" about a ban was from the other forum, not this one.


Did Ted say that? He said that he discussed a post with this site's admins; I assume that the post in question is the original post of this thread, although of course I could be mistaken. If you are making a different assumption, perhaps you should get the facts before also attacking another forum member; if that means that you need to clarify the timing associated with Ted's remark, you could ask Ted.

Well, he could address administration issues with the administrators, rather than rant in the forum making accusations. He could address personal issues with the individual members involved (using this forum's private messaging if he no longer has access to the other forum's tools) rather than taking a personal issue public.



1.) I was just stating a fact.
2.) A "waste of time", do you really think the admins would acknowledge or admit it?
3.) But, yes, Ted clearly admitted to it, himself.




I am/was just warning everyone about this type bullying, "trolling" & "flaming" by fellow members. (of this forum)


Another fact, Yes, he "came at me" several times, but keep in mind that the context of the story has changed, Ted has a habit of continually going back & editing "cleaning up" his posts, so it reads a bit different, now.




I am an artist. This is my story. This is my motorcycle/conversion.


Do I (or anyone) "have" to accept advise?


I am/was simply sharing what I did. (my art)


If Chuck Berry would had told Prince that the chorus in one of his songs was "wrong" & that it should be "like this"


Would of it been wrong for Prince to say thank you for your advise, but I'd like to try it this/my way?


Yes, after interrupting "my story" & making wise cracks several times, with the attitude "I'm the great Ted & you should take my advise", I referred to him as a pompous jerk (probably like a 3 out of 10 on the insult scale) & later it seemed like he was "jelly" (not my words)


I've had words/disagreements with others on this forum (Frodus, Duncan & Paul, justto name a few) but, they never felt so threatened that they needed to "silence me" or "run me out of town"


* The EL Moto forum even has a Fight Club section, maybe I should of put my build story there.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I understand the desire to help understand the events in ElMoto.org, but without consultation with the administration there, we don't know all of what really happened... and since this is not ElMoto.org, we don't need to.


After 15 posts, the only things relevant to this forum which have appeared are:
  1. Functional Artist has accused the administration of this forum of unfairly blocking Functional Artist's logins, but he won't even ask them if he was even blocked; and,
  2. Functional Artist has attacked members of this forum, in this thread,
    • for reasons unrelated to this forum, and
    • for a post in this forum which was unrelated to Functional Artist and which he did not flag as a concern.
Can we get back to DIY electric cars?
Yes, "we" should be having this is a conversation
...bullying IS real


While dealing with this stuff, I also researched & posted info on "proper forum etiquette"


…& here were their (childish) their reactions


http://elmoto.net/showthread.php?t=4822
 

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Like any forum, you are not entitled to membership or say anything you want. It is a privilege granted to you and can be revoked for any reason or no reason at all. That is the real world works there snowflake. So what in the world does this have to do with the forum software? If you are being bullied and picked on, it is because you earned it.
 
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