[Chewy]

Hello,

I have currently bought:
Nissan Leaf Gen 2 Motor / Inverter
Zombieverter VCU
Tesla PCS and Control Board (10kw Ac charging and dc-dc converter)

Now I am to pick the most expensive part, and I am quite afraid to do so.
I have seen a good deal on a Tesla Model 3 Standard Range battery pack.
It was taken out of a car with only 5,500 miles on it and the price is $4,850.00 + $500 shipping.
I would plan to combine it with an Orion BMS.

Problem is, I don't understand how much capacity it has or how many volts it is, as it is intended to be a replacement for another Tesla.
If I look up the specs of that car, I should expect 50 Kwh with a nominal of 350v but if the cells are 5.2kwh, then It contains 9.5 cells??

Would this be a bad buy? I just would like a second opinion before I make a $5000 mistake.

The battery pack in question

Thank you very much for your time.

 

[dlud]

The battery pack includes bms, charger and dc-dc converter along with contactors and pre-charge system. You need a separate controller to operate the systems. Ingenext sells one. The battery should be 54 or 55 kWh with around 3000 cells. The challenge to use these packs is due to the size of the pack. There are 4 modules in the pack and they are quite long.

 

[dlud]

The price on this pack is good, however, you may want to buy from someone who can supply you with the cables, charger ecu and coolant lines and all connectors. The coolant connectors are proprietary and last time I looked, quite hard to come by.

 

[Chewy]

The price on this pack is good, however, you may want to buy from someone who can supply you with the cables, charger ecu and coolant lines and all connectors. The coolant connectors are proprietary and last time I looked, quite hard to come by.

Very helpful, thank you

 

[Chewy]

The battery pack includes bms, charger and dc-dc converter along with contactors and pre-charge system. You need a separate controller to operate the systems. Ingenext sells one. The battery should be 54 or 55 kWh with around 3000 cells. The challenge to use these packs is due to the size of the pack. There are 4 modules in the pack and they are quite long.

I found a video from superfastmatt which has a similarity to your reply. I already have a precharge system, contactors, and a hacked controller board for PCS (DC-DC / AC Charging). This is funny because I was planning on buying one separately on eBay for $500 but didn't know where It came from until I saw it in the video. I feel like I have a starting point for whether I feel comfortable buying these batteries.

 

[brian_]

...
I have seen a good deal on a Tesla Model 3 Standard Range battery pack.
It was taken out of a car with only 5,500 miles on it and the price is $4,850.00 + $500 shipping.
I would plan to combine it with an Orion BMS.

Problem is, I don't understand how much capacity it has or how many volts it is, as it is intended to be a replacement for another Tesla.
If I look up the specs of that car, I should expect 50 Kwh with a nominal of 350v but if the cells are 5.2kwh, then It contains 9.5 cells??

The cells are not 5.2 kWh. In a Model 3 there are thousands of 2170-size cells (less than 5 Ah @ 3.7 V or less than 19 Wh or 0.02 kWh each), grouped in four modules. 5.2 kWh sounds like the energy capacity of an original-style Model S or Model X module (one of 14 or 16 in the Model S/X battery), which contains a few hundred smaller (18650-size) cells.

Something like 50 kWh with a nominal voltage of 350 V is correct so the four modules are about 12 kWh each. (thanks to remy_martian for catching my typo)

Terminology note:
Tesla uses cylindrical cells, roughly like an old-fashioned AA, C, or D flashlight cell. The size designations are just the diameter and length, in millimetres, mashed together...

• 18650: 18 mm diameter by 65.0 mm long (used in most Model S and Model X; about 3 Ah capacity)
• 2170: 21 mm diameter by 70 mm long (used in most Model 3 and Model Y; about 5 Ah capacity)
• 4680: 46 mm diameter by 80 mm long (used in some of the newest Model Y; about 9 Ah capacity)

 

[remy_martian]

12kWh, not 24

 

[pottscb]

That modules appears to be sold out, there are others but they are more expensive. The model 3 modules are too long and too high voltage for my large ATV application (48V), does anyone know if they can be broken down I to individual cell groups? Also, anyone know when Tesla model 3 switched to 4680, and was it only high performance/range model? Any of these in the wild yet? (Junkyard)

 

[remy_martian]

Breaking down Model 3 packs (edit: MODULES) is close to impossible. It's a potted mess. Two Model S modules should work.

 

[pottscb]

HA! I’m very risk averse as this is my first DIY BEV project so want to start simple. I’ll start a new thread for it when I have a few more posts.

 

[Chewy]

That modules appears to be sold out, there are others, but they are more expensive. The model 3 modules are too long and too high voltage for my large ATV application (48V), does anyone know if they can be broken down I to individual cell groups? Also, anyone know when Tesla model 3 switched to 4680, and was it only high performance/range model? Any of these in the wild yet? (Junkyard)

I didn't post when I had come to a decision but it is probably helpful. I decided not to use a model 3 pack because they do break down, but into cells that are really long.

There is a way to fit them into smaller cars, but it is difficult. The person I saw do that on youtube was named Superfastmatt and he got them to fit but it required a lot of metalworking skills that I do not yet have. I also had questions about how to hook up BMS, which again, is possible, but less straightforward.

Model X and Y have modules that are much easier to fit in your car and hook up with a BMS, but they are more expensive.

I ended up settling on Nissan leaf batteries. The ones I found were relatively low in price but still easy to use and fit in a car, and I figured I can always upgrade my battery to tesla modules later if I wanted more range.

 

[brian_]

I didn't post when I had come to a decision but it is probably helpful. I decided not to use a model 3 pack because they do break down, but into cells that are really long.
View attachment 136271

To clarify the use of terminology... those are really long modules, each composed of hundreds of 2170-format cells.

 

[pottscb]

I didn't post when I had come to a decision but it is probably helpful. I decided not to use a model 3 pack because they do break down, but into cells that are really long.
View attachment 136271

There is a way to fit them into smaller cars, but it is difficult. The person I saw do that on youtube was named Superfastmatt and he got them to fit but it required a lot of metalworking skills that I do not yet have. I also had questions about how to hook up BMS, which again, is possible, but less straightforward.

Model X and Y have modules that are much easier to fit in your car and hook up with a BMS, but they are more expensive.
View attachment 136272

I ended up settling on Nissan leaf batteries. The ones I found were relatively low in price but still easy to use and fit in a car, and I figured I can always upgrade my battery to tesla modules later if I wanted more range.

I just came to the same decision about Tesla S cells. I don’t have the knowledge to implement open source software on BMS nor the cash for a multi-thousand dollar BMS (after the price of modules).
Do you mind relaying where you found the Nissan Leaf cells? They look to be more straightforward WRT implementing but the ones on eBay or Greentecauto are either 50-70% SoH or they want hundreds $ per module (making my 48V 200Ah requirement thousands). The nice thing with them is that they’re modular, I could build a 100Ah pack, and if it’s not enough (and as funds allow) turn it into a 200-300Ah pack.

I’m curious to know from people who have purchased used/remanufactured Leaf cells, are they holding fairly steady capacity or does the bottom dropout at some point?

 

[remy_martian]

It's funny how you went from a Tesla Model 3 module being too long, to a Model S being too expensive after BMS, then to a clapped-out Leaf battery being too expensive leading to halving the pack Ah which doubles the BMS cost per kWh and drops your vehicle performance to that of a golf cart.

This stuff costs money. Crazy money. Hobbies are defined as ways to pass time where the economics are insane.

 

[pottscb]

It's funny how you went from a Tesla Model 3 module being too long, to a Model S being too expensive after BMS, then to a clapped-out Leaf battery being too expensive leading to halving the pack Ah which doubles the BMS cost per kWh and drops your vehicle performance to that of a golf cart.

This stuff costs money. Crazy money. Hobbies are defined as ways to pass time where the economics are insane.

Who is this directed to? I only ask as I’m the last poster but not the discussion starter. I can identify as I’m in the same boat as OP, Tesla Model 3 cells are ridiculously long and Model S cells ridiculously expensive…all of which might be OK if they’re weren’t all ridiculously complicated to implement with an extremely low probability of doing it correctly the first time and people new to the hobby don’t want to accumulate a $5k box of parts that are unusable because they either lost got discourage or realized they were in way over their head (at least I am).

This entire process has similarities to raising a child🤣, endlessly complicated with no instruction manual and a promise of zero money left at the end! Who’s in?!?

 

[remy_martian]

It was directed at the direction this thread took.

Things only appear complicated if you don't take the time to learn it and if there's no expertise available to research or ask.

You aren't building a BMS from scratch, to where you're starting off knowing nothing about electronics design and assembly, so it's not complicated...you need to invest either your time, or money, or both, no matter what path you take. Only the idea or notion is free. Everything abstract seems simple, shallow knowledge of where it's headed also makes it seem like it shoupd be simple/easy when it is not.

If it was easy and free, everybody would do it. Conversions are not cheap, and the slope of reduced cost for us has been propped up by the solar "powerwall" crowd. We should be at $35-50/kWh at the salvage yards by now, but solar and grid guys are still scooping batteries up at $100-200/kWh and are happy to do so.

We're in a unique situation where a car part is not just for cars.

 

[Chewy]

Who is this directed to? I only ask as I’m the last poster but not the discussion starter. I can identify as I’m in the same boat as OP, Tesla Model 3 cells are ridiculously long and Model S cells ridiculously expensive…all of which might be OK if they’re weren’t all ridiculously complicated to implement with an extremely low probability of doing it correctly the first time and people new to the hobby don’t want to accumulate a $5k box of parts that are unusable because they either lost got discourage or realized they were in way over their head (at least I am).

This entire process has similarities to raising a child🤣, endlessly complicated with no instruction manual and a promise of zero money left at the end! Who’s in?!?

I had got mine from green tec auto. They are being delivered tomorrow
$150.00 / kWh, and i felt that was good enough for me. Got my nominal voltage by spending 2k rather than 10k so I can upgrade it later if I want

 

[Chewy]

It's funny how you went from a Tesla Model 3 module being too long, to a Model S being too expensive after BMS, then to a clapped-out Leaf battery being too expensive leading to halving the pack Ah which doubles the BMS cost per kWh and drops your vehicle performance to that of a golf cart.

This stuff costs money. Crazy money. Hobbies are defined as ways to pass time where the economics are insane.

Nothing wrong with doing a conversion with a budget in mind :^)

 

[remy_martian]

Every conversion has a budget. Every fantasy has a budget.

You did ok on the $150/kWh, assuming that's usable and not nameplate, energy.

 

[pottscb]

Those used leaf modules are tempting to us newbies as we can dip a toe in with less chance of getting burned. That or prismatic cells whose quality can be questionable.

Occasionally the newer 112Ah Leaf modules come but them they are pricey. Pick your poison.