Planning 1992 Geo Metro 3 door hatchback conversion

yuppie scum said:

I do appreciate converting classic cars to EV as a means of preserving them. But I'm not sure the Metro is worth preserving

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It's not. I don't think I've seen a DIY EV conversion yet which preserves a car that is better than the new equivalent; it's not like people are taking half-century-old Ferraris and making them usable by sticking outdated motors and salvaged batteries in them.

yuppie scum said:

Maybe I'm scarred from my experience from driving a 92 Metro XFI as my first car. While it had a little bit of charm as minimalist transportation, I feel like any car you could get for the cost of motors/battery/etc would be heads and shoulders ahead of the Metro

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If that other car is better because of the engine, that's irrelevant to conversion. If it has other desirable features that won't survive the conversion (such as air conditioning), they're irrelevant, too. If the other car is just bigger, that's not an advantage for EV conversion. Of course, if what someone wants to build is inconsistent with the Metro (actually Suzuki) body and chassis, then they should build with something else - flog the Metro for whatever it brings, and buy a more suitable non-runner with the cash.

The cost of the conversion parts still applies, no matter what vehicle you start with, so I don't quite get what point is of comparing the cost of those parts to the cost of a starting vehicle. Sure, it makes no sense to put $10,000 of electric hardware into a $50 car, but it also makes no sense to me to turn a decent $10,000 gas-engined car into a barely usable cheap EV.

ButchGibson said:

I was a bit encouraged by seeing a 1993 Metro with a total build cost of $200, top speed of 100Mph and range of 120 miles...

Resources:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/722

http://www.evalbum.com/1595

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That's just fiction. It looks like a reality check is needed.

Each and every part individual part listed costs more than $100, so the cost values are likely just random numbers. For an example, this car has 36 cells connected in series, and each cell costs at least $100 if new. Another thing that leads to nonsense project costs are people not counting the cost of parts and materials that they have "just lying around"... which means that another project paid for them. In this case, the multi-thousand-dollar motor is apparently from another Metro, where it was replaced by an even more expensive motor; no one gives away AC-35 motors! The aluminum used for mounts would have cost more than $200. There's a couple hundred dollars worth of fiberglass core, fabric, resin, etc. in the cored composite box used to house electronics.

Some info from that Garage page, with some pricing added (from a random supplier, just for a rough idea):
Yes, that's at least $10,000 USD worth of conversion parts (and there are lots of parts not listed), if purchased new.

The Garage page lists a main build thread:
Tevie2 Metro
It is 287 posts long, so I haven't read it all, but buried in there somewhere there might be an indication of actual costs (and effort). The builder appears to be still active in this forum, so you could send a message to him and ask.

ButchGibson said:

I've got a 1993 Honda Civic DX that might be a better and safer vehicle to attempt a conversion with but it is in worse shape and is an automatic.

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The Civic has a more sophisticated suspension (double A-arms in front - rare for small front-wheel-drive cars - and multilink rear suspension); you don't need that specifically for an EV conversion, but it is a nice chassis. We have one - the CRX version.

The automatic transmission is probably not worth the trouble to make work, but you could swap it for a manual (some irritating details in that, such as mounting the shifter). If you use a complete motor with transaxle salvaged from an EV (such as a Leaf), the car's original transmission won't matter.

The Civic is heavier and has more frontal area (bad for energy requirement), but it is still relatively light (only 2275 pounds plus options for that '93 DX hatch) and should have a higher capacity to carry additional battery than the Metro (compare the GVWR on the placard at the driver's door to the weight of the car)... so it's not a bad choice. Of course, if the Civic still runs well, it doesn't make sense to me to convert it, rather than buying another one with dead engine.

If the Civic is a hatchback (it also came as a 2-door coupe and 4-door sedan) then you have the same opportunity as I mentioned for the Metro: if you sacrifice the rear seat, you can replace it and the fuel tank with a good-sized battery pack under a nice and low cargo deck height. I don't think this makes as much sense for the coupe, and even less for the sedan, and I don't know if the rear seating is valuable to you or not.

Hi Butch,

My mates and I finished converting a 1993 Suzuki Swift 3 door hatchback in late 2010. I came up with the idea of converting a car to electric in 2007 and checked with my mates. One is a motor mechanic, one an auto electrician and another, my brother, an electrician. My knowledge of electricity was absolutely zero! Like me they all thought it would be a very interesting project.

We started with a 96v system using 100ah lead acid batteries. I bought the donor car for $150 as the motor had blown. Two and a half years later, my mates and I working maybe one weekend a month, I had a working registered electric Suzuki Swift. Range was just 30km and acceleration was slow.

Late 2013 the lead acids were exhausted. I replaced them with 32 Lithiums 100ah. Nominal pack voltage was then 102.4v. In the last 4 years I have been gradually increasing the pack voltage which is now at 122v nominal and will soon go to 136v nominal. Range is now about 100km and acceleration has improved considerably. I have also done some aerodynamic changes which also have helped.

The advice Brian has given you in previous posts in this thread should be taken on board in my opinion.

I have really, really enjoyed the challenge that my conversion has been - and still is. I also really enjoy driving around in something I built myself (with help!). I also don't mind that my car uses $0.02 of electricity per km.

You mention a nearby city to which you wish to drive occasionally. Are there any public charging stations there? My Suzuki would not be able to make what sounds like a 150 mile round trip without a re-charge.

Regards
Paul