[Mahonroy]

Hey guys, I am planning my electric conversion project and wanted to run my plan/ideas by you to make sure its all reasonable/feasible? I will talk about what the project is, my goals, what components I was thinking of using, and a few questions I had:

The vehicle is a 1957 Chevy Truck. I already removed the engine/transmission, converted it to front independent suspension (mustang II), installed a ford explorer 8.8 (4.11 gear ratio) rear end with limited slip differential, boxed the frame, and large disc brakes on all 4 wheels. It is now ready for electrical components and fabrication to support those.

My goal is that I want the system to be done properly & reliably, because I plan on driving the truck a lot. I feel that brake regeneration is important, that it should accelerate quickly if you want it to, be able to go highway speeds, and range being at the bottom of the list (hopefully at least 100 miles?). I also plan on charging it over night, and I already have a solar system installed to supplement charging costs.

Motors:

If brake regeneration is as important as it seems, then it really seems like this system should be based off AC motors right? It seems I should use 2x Siemens 1PV5135 mounted back to front. I also found that 2x Hyper 9 motors might fit the bill but combining the motors into a single shaft will need additional fabrication.

The dual warp 11 setup seemed really appealing at first, but it doesn't seem I can do brake regeneration as easily with this? Or is it still possible to make it work with this setup? I searched around but couldn't find much info on it.
Also, full throttle on this setup would most likely break the current rear-end... I was planning on upgrading this in the future however.

How useful is the brake regeneration? It seems like a good thing to do, but if it doesn't add much should I just ditch the idea?
​

Drive:

I was planning on mounting a U-joint directly to the output shaft of the dual motor setup, and running a drive shaft directly to my rear-end. The rear-end is 4.11 gear ratio. I have seen people use a power glide transmissions as well, but this seemed unnecessary

• Siemens 1PV5135: Max RPM of 10,000, and it looks that the majority of the torque is under 6,000 RPM. Running 6,000 RPM through 4.11 rear-end looks to be about 117 MPH. So I'm thinking this gearing will work?
• Hyper 9: Seems to be about same as Siemens motor.
• Warp 11: Max RPM of 5,000, continuous max RPM of 4,000. 4,000 RPM through 4.11 rear-end looks to be about 78 MPH, so this will still probably work here too?

Accessories:

I have been contemplating using a separate small DC motor to power the power steering pump, and air conditioner compressor. The IFS conversion I already did now has rack & pinion steering, but maybe it would be best to switch over to electric power steering instead? And in that case I could power the air conditioner compressor off the main drive... but it would only operate while in motion. For power brakes I was just going to use an electric vacuum pump & reservoir.​

Motor Controllers:

This is the point where I am really not sure what rout to go with, and would definitely appreciate your advice here. I was searching around for DC controller that had functions for brake regeneration, but didn't have much luck.​

Batteries:

I am still working out the details for batteries. There is so much room under the bed of the truck, under the hood, etc. that I'm not worried about space. It seemed to either go for Lead-Acid type batteries, or LiFePO4 batteries. I don't mind doing maintenance on the batteries, I just want them to last as long as possible... whatever the best value is of life vs cost. I will still continue to read more on this.​

Cooling:

Depending on the motor will most likely depend on the cooling. I can use a radiator for liquid cooling, or fans for forced air cooling.​

I know there are a lot of smaller items to work out that aren't listed, but I figured these were the main points that are the foundation for the system.

I would definitely appreciate your advice and input, thanks again for taking the time to check it out!

 

[Mahonroy]

I spoke to a few controller manufactures on the phone last week, and got some more insight. It looks like going AC is definitely the way to go, and that dual Hyper 9 motors with the AC-X1 controller will be perfect. You can mount them back to front just like the Warp 9/11 motors.

What do you guys think about the rest of the system plan? (e.g. the drive and accessories)

 

[rmay635703]

Before

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/1946-chevy-prius-truck-34935.html

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_dCdRWQLOPU


Finished

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/1946-chevy-prius-truck-34935-28.html


A Nissan Leaf or Chevy Volt “Motor” would work as well and likely have more power than either of the industrial forklift motors you looked at.


If you stick with stock gearing and frame I recommend keeping a manual transmission, even a 3 on the tree, most direct drive conversions need an 8:1 rear, especially a truck.

On this same subject what voltage are you using, what donor batteries are you going to source?

100 mile range is a tall order in a truck, for reference the Workhorse EV pickup has a 60kwhr battery to get an 80 mile range. Quite pricey and still not anywhere near 100 winter miles at highway speeds.


I have seen a Chevy Volt pull a full size enclosed boat on trailer, it’s weakness is the suspension and rear frame
if you could retrofit a Volt drivetrain into your truck and have it think it’s a Volt (which can be done different ways as the video shows) you would not need to worry about battery capacity as the generator would start up after you ran out of juice.
The Volt also has more system horsepower than your truck would have had originally OEM.

If you don’t stuff a Volt in there I would expect you to need around 120kwhrs of batteries to get a carefree winter range of 100 miles.
That’s about $20,000 of junkyard lithium batteries, which is no small order to integrate into your donor chassis

And lead, forgetaboutit, filling up every nook and cranny might get you a 8000lb truck that goes 40 or 50 miles on a good day, lead is just too bulky and heavy to fit enough capacity into a large brick like a truck.

Good Luck

 

[Mahonroy]

Before

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/1946-chevy-prius-truck-34935.html

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_dCdRWQLOPU


Finished

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/1946-chevy-prius-truck-34935-28.html


A Nissan Leaf or Chevy Volt “Motor” would work as well and likely have more power than either of the industrial forklift motors you looked at.


If you stick with stock gearing and frame I recommend keeping a manual transmission, even a 3 on the tree, most direct drive conversions need an 8:1 rear, especially a truck.

On this same subject what voltage are you using, what donor batteries are you going to source?

100 mile range is a tall order in a truck, for reference the Workhorse EV pickup has a 60kwhr battery to get an 80 mile range. Quite pricey and still not anywhere near 100 winter miles at highway speeds.


I have seen a Chevy Volt pull a full size enclosed boat on trailer, it’s weakness is the suspension and rear frame
if you could retrofit a Volt drivetrain into your truck and have it think it’s a Volt (which can be done different ways as the video shows) you would not need to worry about battery capacity as the generator would start up after you ran out of juice.
The Volt also has more system horsepower than your truck would have had originally OEM.

If you don’t stuff a Volt in there I would expect you to need around 120kwhrs of batteries to get a carefree winter range of 100 miles.
That’s about $20,000 of junkyard batteries, which is no small order to integrate into your donor chassis

Good Luck

Thanks for the info!

So the Hyper 9 has a max RPM limit of 10,000. What RPM range would be good to keep this thing in? From looking at the graph it looks like up to 6,000 RPM then efficiency starts to die off. 6,000 RPM would make the vehicle travel at 117MPH. I was going to replace the rear-end down the road... and at that point if I went with even a 6:1 ratio, that 6,000 RPM would have the truck traveling at about 80MPH. It seems I wouldn't want to go past a 6:1 ratio right? I was trying to avoid adding back a transmission for simplicity, cost, and avoid not losing 15% power through another transmission.

As far as voltage goes: the Hyper 9 is available in 2 different voltage levels. The 132 volt and 760 amps, and a 144 volt version with 500 amps (this one is also a little more expensive). They both say they both have a max of 88kW of power. Would one be preferable over the other?

If at first I can only get 40 miles that's ok too, I can always add more batteries later. There seems to be debate over using cheap lead-acid batteries or expensive LiFePO4 batteries, and I'm still not sure what is the best rout to go.

 

[rmay635703]

Lead isn’t cheap anymore and really is only good for learning, 40 highway miles @ 50% dod of lead would be a 640ahr 100 volt battery bank which weighs close to 2 tons

The hyper 9 looks like a good but expensive 75kw low voltage AC motor
It appears to be happiest around 2000 rpm in terms of power

At highway speeds I would question its ability to output enough power to keep you moving at rpms much above 3000, further its redline is 3300 continuous rpms meaning that anything above that is more or less useless.
It also recommends a chill plate, I’m really not sure what I think of it, perhaps someone here has used one?

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/ac-motor-offered-netgain-motors-inc-187185.html

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187593&highlight=Hyper

Looking at that motor closer I think it does fit your platform as is, (on paper at least) your rear end gears can likely stay where they are at. (Odd duck of a motor, most AC motors rev higher continuously and require higher voltages)

Not sure I guess it depends what you are looking to get out of it, that said a Nissan Leaf motor can easily output over 100kw at higher rpms and can cost as little as $500.
It’s not a canned solution but is fully worked out for diy purposes

When I see threads like yours I worry that you won’t get the results you expect after spending a fair amount of cash aka range, speed power.

Looks like we need a Brian here to comment.

 

[Bmmoffat]

From what I’ve researched (which I am relatively new to this) is the best way to go is to convert an ev vehicle to the chassis you want. Ex vehicles have the cheapest battery packs, that are higher quality than china batteries. You can start with everything you need and add more batteries as your pocketbook allows.

 

[brian_]

The hyper 9 looks like a good but expensive 75kw low voltage AC motor
It appears to be happiest around 2000 rpm in terms of power
...

Looking at that motor closer I think it does fit your platform as is, (on paper at least) your rear end gears can likely stay where they are at. (Odd duck of a motor, most AC motors rev higher continuously and require higher voltages)

That is as expected for the Hyper9, because NetGain ordered it (they don't make it) to suit their existing market of low-voltage vehicles. If you were starting from scratch to make an EV you would probably use a higher battery voltage and a differently configured motor (like essentially all current production highway-capable EVs) and would get better high-speed performance; however, if you were starting from the assumption of moderate battery voltage you might choose the Hyper9 configuration.

For someone not putting in a full salvaged production EV pack, and using an existing driveline suited to motor speeds comparable to a typical car or truck engine, this can work.

I would find the cost to be a problem. Buying two motors and two controllers seems like an expensive way to get enough power, but perhaps a more suitable single motor and controller would be just as expensive because it is so uncommon among aftermarket equipment.

 

[The Dudester]

Did you ever get this up and working? I may have access to and old 57 later this year (not restored but running).

 

[youngestEVer]

Hey guys, I am planning my electric conversion project and wanted to run my plan/ideas by you to make sure its all reasonable/feasible? I will talk about what the project is, my goals, what components I was thinking of using, and a few questions I had:

The vehicle is a 1957 Chevy Truck. I already removed the engine/transmission, converted it to front independent suspension (mustang II), installed a ford explorer 8.8 (4.11 gear ratio) rear end with limited slip differential, boxed the frame, and large disc brakes on all 4 wheels. It is now ready for electrical components and fabrication to support those.

My goal is that I want the system to be done properly & reliably, because I plan on driving the truck a lot. I feel that brake regeneration is important, that it should accelerate quickly if you want it to, be able to go highway speeds, and range being at the bottom of the list (hopefully at least 100 miles?). I also plan on charging it over night, and I already have a solar system installed to supplement charging costs.

Motors:

If brake regeneration is as important as it seems, then it really seems like this system should be based off AC motors right? It seems I should use 2x Siemens 1PV5135 mounted back to front. I also found that 2x Hyper 9 motors might fit the bill but combining the motors into a single shaft will need additional fabrication.​

​

The dual warp 11 setup seemed really appealing at first, but it doesn't seem I can do brake regeneration as easily with this? Or is it still possible to make it work with this setup? I searched around but couldn't find much info on it.​

Also, full throttle on this setup would most likely break the current rear-end... I was planning on upgrading this in the future however.​

​

How useful is the brake regeneration? It seems like a good thing to do, but if it doesn't add much should I just ditch the idea?​

​

Drive:

I was planning on mounting a U-joint directly to the output shaft of the dual motor setup, and running a drive shaft directly to my rear-end. The rear-end is 4.11 gear ratio. I have seen people use a power glide transmissions as well, but this seemed unnecessary​

• Siemens 1PV5135: Max RPM of 10,000, and it looks that the majority of the torque is under 6,000 RPM. Running 6,000 RPM through 4.11 rear-end looks to be about 117 MPH. So I'm thinking this gearing will work?
• Hyper 9: Seems to be about same as Siemens motor.
• Warp 11: Max RPM of 5,000, continuous max RPM of 4,000. 4,000 RPM through 4.11 rear-end looks to be about 78 MPH, so this will still probably work here too?

Accessories:

I have been contemplating using a separate small DC motor to power the power steering pump, and air conditioner compressor. The IFS conversion I already did now has rack & pinion steering, but maybe it would be best to switch over to electric power steering instead? And in that case I could power the air conditioner compressor off the main drive... but it would only operate while in motion. For power brakes I was just going to use an electric vacuum pump & reservoir.​

Motor Controllers:

This is the point where I am really not sure what rout to go with, and would definitely appreciate your advice here. I was searching around for DC controller that had functions for brake regeneration, but didn't have much luck.​

Batteries:

I am still working out the details for batteries. There is so much room under the bed of the truck, under the hood, etc. that I'm not worried about space. It seemed to either go for Lead-Acid type batteries, or LiFePO4 batteries. I don't mind doing maintenance on the batteries, I just want them to last as long as possible... whatever the best value is of life vs cost. I will still continue to read more on this.​

Cooling:

Depending on the motor will most likely depend on the cooling. I can use a radiator for liquid cooling, or fans for forced air cooling.​

I know there are a lot of smaller items to work out that aren't listed, but I figured these were the main points that are the foundation for the system.

I would definitely appreciate your advice and input, thanks again for taking the time to check it out!

Hey,

Sounds like a sweet build! I would definitely go with dual Hyper systems, and create a coupling plate and shaft coupler. I've spoken with Netgain about dual system setups, and apparently it is pretty simple on the software side of things. About batteries, 100 miles in that beast is going to be tough. I would probably reduce your range goal a bit, maybe 60-80 miles and just shoot for that. I would definitely keep the transmission, it's loads of fun to drive an electric motor with stick.

We just released a new device called the Systems Control Module (SCM), which can be found HERE , and I think it would greatly help you in the build. It simplifies so much of the EV conversion wiring, and makes it plug and play to add accessories like electric A/C, power steering, etc. I designed it to help the average car guy with common hand tools get into EV conversions to keep things as simple as possible.

Email me if you'd like some help planning your build, would like to learn basics, or need to source some parts (i have the best prices for batteries/motors/chargers/controllers etc.)

Cheers,
Adam
[email protected]