Please select the most popular LifePO4 battery sizes, Thanks

11137 Views 40 Replies 17 Participants Last post by meanderingthemaze, Aug 9, 2010

hipowerkevin

Discussion Starter · Jul 10, 2010 (Edited)

Hello everyone!

Our company Hipower has updated some new modules.
There are new 100AH, 200AH, 160AH and 60AH sizes.
We also have former 100AH and 200AH sizes.

Here is the list of our most common lifepo4 battery capacity (AH) and sizes,
It is important that your suggestion would help us so that we can make the decision, can you tell which item you like most?

Following are AH and dimensions:

Terminals / holes:

new module type:
100AH 10mm
160AH 14mm
200AH 14mm
60 AH 6mm

former type:
100AH 8mm
50AH 6mm

Thanks very much for your help!

Best Regards!
Kevin from Hipower

See less See more

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

EVfun

· #2 · Jul 10, 2010

I am currently using Thundersky 60 amp hour cells so size 6 looks attractive to me. I think each battery manufacturer will find their product more accepted (more sales) if they work with the existing sizes being made. It makes the product more interchangeable, like the way standard group sizes do for lead acid batteries.

ewdysar

· #3 · Jul 10, 2010

My interest in EV's goes towards range, so I've been focused on the 160Ah to 200Ah offerings from various manufacturers. But the most desirable format depends on the specific installation, so I would say there is no better answer.

That said, if a manufacturer built cells that, when combined in packs of 4, were the same size as typical EV FLA cells like T-105 or US-125 batteries, there should be a reasonable market for people replacing their FLA battery packs. The upgrade would provide reduced weight and/or increased range/performance, while using existing battery racks.

Eric

hipowerkevin

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jul 10, 2010

For 60AH battery size are almost same to thundersky, so it is one more selection for diyers.

For new modules, I have considered BCI group 31, 4-D, 8-D, GC2 and T-105, because it is common in lead acid batteries.

The new module 100/160/200, there are no higher than 9 inch, and they can easliy replace the lead acid, like 100AH for group 31, 200AH for 4-D, 8-D, 160AH for group 31, 4-D, or T-105.

It is needed that LifePO4 battery suitable for common lead acid battery size replace, for more ecnomic and easy acceptable.

JRP3

· #5 · Jul 10, 2010

hipowerkevin said:
It is needed that LifePO4 battery suitable for common lead acid battery size replace, for more ecnomic and easy acceptable.

I'm not sure that's true. There are relatively few lead acid EV's on the road and since lithium will be smaller for greater capacity it won't be that hard to fit them. As long as the height of the cell is the same or shorter, that's the big issue. Obviously the smaller overall volume the better, but that is limited by the technology.

pgt400

· #6 · Jul 10, 2010

hipowerkevin said:
For 60AH battery size are almost same to thundersky, so it is one more selection for diyers.

For new modules, I have considered BCI group 31, 4-D, 8-D, GC2 and T-105, because it is common in lead acid batteries.

The new module 100/160/200, there are no higher than 9 inch, and they can easliy replace the lead acid, like 100AH for group 31, 200AH for 4-D, 8-D, 160AH for group 31, 4-D, or T-105.

It is needed that LifePO4 battery suitable for common lead acid battery size replace, for more ecnomic and easy acceptable.

Where can I find the specs / price for the 60ah size?

dimitri

· #7 · Jul 10, 2010

Kevin,

can you also publish specs for terminals for new 160AH and 200AH cells? Are they threaded holes or threaded posts? What thread size, hole size, etc?

Also, are all cells listed in your table 3C type cells?

Asking a public forum for preferences is a futile effort, there are more opinions than forum members

When you start selling your new cells you will see which ones are more popular, based on orders.

Also, Thundersky and CALB cell dimensions have become defacto standard in the DIY market, so the closer you get to those the easier it will be to compete with them, that also includes terminals standards.

And, as I told you before, having inventory ready to ship from US based warehouse is probably the best thing you can do to gain US marketshare, assuming competitive price of course.

Thanks for sharing your new developments!

See less See more

EVfun

· #8 · Jul 10, 2010 (Edited)

hipowerkevin said:
The new module 100/160/200, there are no higher than 9 inch, and they can easliy replace the lead acid, like 100AH for group 31, 200AH for 4-D, 8-D, 160AH for group 31, 4-D, or T-105.

It is needed that LifePO4 battery suitable for common lead acid battery size replace, for more ecnomic and easy acceptable.

I have to agree with JRP3, I don't think you need to copy lead acid sizes. Lithium batteries can generate their own new size standards because they will be so much smaller for a given battery pack capacity. One exception to that may be the Golf Cart battery sizes (GC-1, like the T-105) because there is such a large installed base of a single size. Those are used in more than golf carts and old EVs.

hipowerkevin

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jul 11, 2010

dimitri said:
Kevin,

can you also publish specs for terminals for new 160AH and 200AH cells? Are they threaded holes or threaded posts? What thread size, hole size, etc?
Also, are all cells listed in your table 3C type cells? ...

From now on Hipower all batteries would have hole on anode and cathode, with a hole people could easily screw the terminals on. all the old size that with no hole would be not produced. --I am in home, so I have no detail size of hole, but I would glad to offer and suggest company add them to specification.

All of those batteries are the power type, at least 3C, for small AH like 40AH, would have 5C. the limit of C-rate mainly depends on heating uping speed of anode/cathode, and the inner heat in cells need to be cooling well.

For warehouse in US now is being pushing by Lili He, My main purpose also is to offer the best common AH and size to her, and she would put that size cells in US as storage. but we are not so sure weather new size are wellcome, like 100AH cells, two sizes, need to be desided.

For replacement of lead acid, we mainly considered the higth, no taller would be OK, batteries still has small size. replacement means if put into group 31, still has not of space rest. because the new module, like 100AH, the energy density would be 150Wh/L.

Best Regards!

Kevin Tang
From Hipower

Click to expand...

rmay635703

· #10 · Jul 11, 2010

EVfun said:
I have to agree with JRP3, I don't think you need to copy lead acid sizes.

One exception to that may be the Golf Cart battery sizes (GC-1, like the T-105) because there is such a large installed base of a single size. Those are used in more than golf carts and old EVs.

T105 is almost universal, that size limitation has been what has prevented me from moving to higher voltage 12v T1275's in my one car for more speed.

He does not need to copy that size BUT the size should be divisible by it so you can fit lithium batteries into the footprint evenly, it is a real pita when you want to upgrade to both lithium and more voltage and the darn things do not fit well leaving a huge gap in the compartments.

That is one reason I don't have NiMH in my car right now, long and skinny packs so I couldn't fit them easily into the battery boxes and also couldn't fit enough voltage in as is without cutting and welding Al.

Cheers
Ryan

JRP3

· #11 · Jul 11, 2010

hipowerkevin said:
For warehouse in US now is being pushing by Lili He, My main purpose also is to offer the best common AH and size to her, and she would put that size cells in US as storage. but we are not so sure weather new size are wellcome, like 100AH cells, two sizes, need to be desided.
Best Regards!

Kevin Tang
From Hipower

I'd say the shorter, denser, new cell is the better choice.

david85

· #12 · Jul 11, 2010

I really like what you have done with the new 200Ah cell. Do you have energy density specs for the new list?

dimitri

· #13 · Jul 11, 2010

Kevin,

in my opinion, all your new sizes seem attractive. You can't go wrong stocking 40AH,60AH,100AH,160AH,200AH cells in US. All these sizes are used in conversions from bikes to cars to boats, etc.

Please add terminal specs, bolt size, thread, etc. to cells documentation.

Any idea of when new cells will be ready to ship from US warehouse and what will be the price per AH ?

dimitri

· #14 · Jul 11, 2010

EVfun said:
I have to agree with JRP3, I don't think you need to copy lead acid sizes. Lithium batteries can generate their own new size standards because they will be so much smaller for a given battery pack capacity. One exception to that may be the Golf Cart battery sizes (GC-1, like the T-105) because there is such a large installed base of a single size. Those are used in more than golf carts and old EVs.

I think you misunderstand Kevin's message. They are not copying LA size, but they want to conform to at least 2 dimesions of common BCI Group sizes and then let 3rd dimesion be whatever it is based on LFP density.
Current prismatic LFP production has pretty well defined density, there haven't been any major improvements, so its just a matter of compromizing given volume across 3 dimensions. You pick 2 desired dimensions and the 3rd is determined by required volume to pack it tight with LFP material.
This makes perfect sense. Remember, EV conversions is a small market, any LFP manufacturer has to shoot for competition with LA in ALL markets, including Golf Carts, solar banks, boat and RV housebanks, etc. All those markets are dominated by standard LA batteries, so if 4 LFP cells fit nicely into LA volume with some room to spare, its perfect for those markets. But their current cells are too tall and don't fit well, hence their desire to change their molds.

See less See more

Powered By DC

· #15 · Jul 11, 2010

Hi Kevin,

Your new mold sizes are a huge improvement over the old sizes, especially for the the 60ah and 100ah cells.
On the 160ah and 200ah cells I think your company should try to match the TS size of H 279mm(10.98") W 182mm(7.17") T 70.6mm(2.78") Athough the new sizes you posted are also much better than the previous sizes.
As others have noted the terminals your company uses currently are hard to deal with as there are no lugs made to fit them. It looks like your company already plans to change them and I think that will also be a huge improvement.

Best Regards

Dave Kois
Current EV Tech, LLC
http://www.currentevtech.com
253-988-5020

See less See more

hipowerkevin

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jul 12, 2010

david85 said:
I really like what you have done with the new 200Ah cell. Do you have energy density specs for the new list?

Energy density could be easily calculated as total WH / L

For example, 200AH cells is 3.2*200/ (2.55*0.70*2.38) = 150.64849469199447

Voltage multiple with AH, then divide by volume, the new 200 / 160 / 100 AH module are all about 150WH/L

If use Voltage multiple with AH, then divide by weight, would get energy density, as WH / kg

EVfun

· #17 · Jul 12, 2010

dimitri said:
I think you misunderstand Kevin's message. They are not copying LA size, but they want to conform to at least 2 dimesions of common BCI Group sizes and then let 3rd dimesion be whatever it is based on LFP density.

No misunderstanding, I think we all understood the message to mean sizes that allow a battery (group of cells) to be assembled in a box originally designed for golf cart batteries. A lithium replacement for GC lead is going to be either much smaller or much higher capacity than the pack it replaces.

JRP3

· #18 · Jul 12, 2010

hipowerkevin said:
If use Voltage multiple with AH, then divide by weight, would get energy density, as WH / kg

But you didn't publish the weights

JRoque

· #19 · Jul 13, 2010

But you didn't publish the weights

or prices!! An approximate price per Ah delivered to a warehouse in US would be a good start (for me).

JR

david85

· #20 · Jul 13, 2010

I don't expect them to publish prices but even if they do, past experience has taught me that its rarely their bottom line.

Maybe these are not in production yet and thats why a firm weight rating is not available? Just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.