Price of an 60kw Induction motor

23877 Views 33 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Huub3, Feb 2, 2011

steven4601

Discussion Starter · Jan 26, 2011

Hello,

Recently I have joined this forum to read and learn as much as possible about vehicle conversions to electric. I have set my target for the motor to induction motors.

My plan is to design and build an inverter myself. If that fails Im willing to step back and modify a small 3phase inverter with a much bigger output pack.

Yesterday I received pricing + shipping and VAT for a (new) watercooled 60kw continious 90kw peak (60s) induction motor. 80kG, 8000 RPMS max.

Is 3700,- Euro (including 19% VAT and shipping) a good/fair price for such a motor?

//Steven

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RoughRider

· #2 · Jan 26, 2011

you can get a AC50 for around 4000$ including the controller...

it is around 70kW peak too...

but it can do much better...

i think the next generation controller will be 144V and 650A...90kW

efan

· #3 · Jan 26, 2011

I assume you already know about EVE and what they offer but in case you dont...here it is

http://shop.electro-vehicles.eu/shop/browse.asp?cat=60&path=47,60&tipoprod=AC_Induction_Motors

steven4601

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jan 26, 2011 (Edited)

2

RoughRider said:
you can get a AC50 for around 4000$ including the controller...

it is around 70kW peak too...

but it can do much better...

i think the next generation controller will be 144V and 650A...90kW

Hi RoughRider,
Do you have a web/source for when and how it is going to do 90kW?
I have made a graph of the AC50 @ 96 and fictional 144V (extrapolated!!!) and the motors that i'm currently also considering for my conversion. The AC50 data was taken from an XLS provided by http://hpevs.com/drive-systems/ac-50 . The other motors where eyeballed from bitmaps.

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steven4601

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 26, 2011

I made things less clear as they should have been.
the Voltages on the graph are DC-Bus voltages, the currents are motor RMS currents.

karlos

· #6 · Jan 26, 2011

steven4601 said:
Yesterday I received pricing + shipping and VAT for a (new) watercooled 60kw continious 90kw peak (60s) induction motor. 80kG, 8000 RPMS max.

Hi Steven, who are you getting the price off? Could we have a link to the motor website please?

steven4601

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 26, 2011

karlos said:
Hi Steven, who are you getting the price off? Could we have a link to the motor website please?

Ill explain in more detail soon. First financial objectivity. Is it a bargain?

karlos

· #8 · Jan 26, 2011

steven4601 said:
Ill explain in more detail soon. First financial objectivity. Is it a bargain?

Assuming it is liquid cooled and the duty rating is suitable for you, it sounds reasonable, you can certainly find motors far more pricey and some less but the lesser ones seem to be lower voltage and higher amps; personally for reasons you are aware of no doubt, I like the higher voltage option.

efan

· #9 · Jan 26, 2011

hey Steven a quick search got me these...I think a better bargain...altho this motor is not rated at 60kw continuous power...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

corbin

· #10 · Jan 27, 2011

steven4601 said:
Ill explain in more detail soon. First financial objectivity. Is it a bargain?

I don't know about a bargain, but the price isn't bad considering comparable motors on EVE:

http://shop.electro-vehicles.eu/shop/details.asp?prodid=MES07&cat=0&path=47,60

Or, weaker ones for 2200:
http://shop.electro-vehicles.eu/shop/details.asp?prodid=EVE02&cat=0&path=47,60

-corbin

karlos

· #11 · Jan 27, 2011

corbin; [URL said:
http://shop.electro-vehicles.eu/shop/details.asp?prodid=MES07&cat=0&path=47,60[/URL]

-corbin

Make sure you use the fixing brackets as a guy on here awhile ago, it is my understanding didn't and cracked the mounting face. Blamed the Manufacturer of course. I wonder if the fixing brackets were in the drawing back then?

steven4601

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jan 27, 2011

Hi,
That Siemens has been on my wish list for a long time.

To bad the seller sells only to the US. Shipping to the netherlands and customs will probably bog down to 3k euro in total for a 30kw/60kw peak motor...

Siemens have got a few other motors too available through HEC-drives here in the netherlands. They are marginally

more expensive than the price i quoted in the start of my topic for the 50/60kw motor.

drivin98

· #13 · Jan 27, 2011

$1,899 US for a Siemens/Ford motor on eBay right now. Not sure about the kW rating but I believe it's up there.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260727239097#ht_500wt_1182

steven4601

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jan 27, 2011

Eric Tischer is using that motor in his Volkswagen Passat conversion. If I remember correctly it did 90hp/60kw avg @ 300V. It speeds a 1900kg car to 60mph in 15 seconds. Which confirms 60kw.

efan

· #15 · Jan 27, 2011

one of the pictures shows the motor sticker and it says "rated battery voltage 250v" ....so are you saying that it can be run at higher voltage...just like a dc motor can?

corbin

· #16 · Jan 28, 2011

steven4601 said:
Eric Tischer is using that motor in his Volkswagen Passat conversion. If I remember correctly it did 90hp/60kw avg @ 300V. It speeds a 1900kg car to 60mph in 15 seconds. Which confirms 60kw.

It is 33kw continuous, and 67 peak.

http://www.zuglet.com/ev/fordsiemens/fordsiemens.html

If you have a 60kw continuous, 90kw peak, then it is MUCH better.

corbin

steven4601

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jan 28, 2011

efan said:
one of the pictures shows the motor sticker and it says "rated battery voltage 250v" ....so are you saying that it can be run at higher voltage...just like a dc motor can?

Ofcourse. Limits in iron saturation and maximum electric withstanding voltage of the enamal wire (insulation voltage) must be respected. For most motors the enamel wire can handle 230VAC (400VDC) fine. It is the Iron that saturates. Tinker with the maximum volts per hz limit and it should deliver more kilowatt's at higher rpm's.

etischer

· #18 · Jan 28, 2011 (Edited)

At the peak, I'm pulling about 280A @ 300V from the battery.
At around 8k rpm I'm still pulling about 180A @ 310V.
My battery is nominally 330V.

The Ford Ranger EV was rated 84kw with a 300V battery.

I couldn't be happier with this motor. 0-60 is 14 seconds using only 2nd gear. Once I add my encoder, I'm hoping to get a bit more torque off the line and shave off another 1/2 second.

Huub3

· #19 · Jan 28, 2011 (Edited)

Removed as double entering of same text

Huub3

· #20 · Jan 28, 2011

Steven,

not completely sure what you are looking for (torque, rpm, bus voltage).

But using an industrial AC induction motor gives you this power level for below USD 2000 (using alu frame to achieve low weight).

Have a look at ABB (expensive but large variety of motors) or other industrial suppliers. Go for a 220 V version, and you will have rated torque till ca. 2750 RPM. Look for a nominal 20 kW, with the 220 Delta version you get. ca. 35-40 kW nominal at 400-440 VAC (ca. 600 VDC), then taking into account the peak/nominal ratio (typical 3 or better) you have a 90-120 kW peak engine. THis is similar to the work done by some guys at www.aeva.asn.au .

These motors are fan cooled, so less issue with cooling too. Only disadvantage is max rpm is only 5000-6000 rpm, compared with 9000-11000 for "real EV motors".

Regards,

Huub

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