Yup. Thats the difference between building something great that nobody can afford and successfully marketing something that is good enough.Right now it can't be beat for cost to density ratio, if their cost claims are accurate.
It's a good idea to link the original source and use quotes when copying and pasting another person's material.Automakers often do comparison ads.....
It's a good idea to link the original source and use quotes when copying and pasting another person's material.
Interesting argument. Many have argued that liquid cooling is "superior" - yet note that 1940's technology air-cooled motors dominate in aviationAutomakers often do comparison ads showing how their features or specs are better than their competitors', but they don't generally trash other makers' designs in public.
Like so many conventions, this one doesn't seem to apply to Elon Musk, CEO of venture-funded startup Tesla Motors [NSDQ:TSLA]. He savaged the "primitive" design of the battery pack in the 2011 Nissan Leaf, the all-electric hatchback that will go on sale in December.
The comments came at during a conference call with investors discussing Tesla's second-quarter loss. following its June initial public offering.
They expanded, more bluntly, on concerns expressed by former Tesla marketing honcho Darryl Siry and others over the Leaf's air-cooled battery pack.
Unlike the water-cooled packs of the Tesla Roadster and the 2011 Chevrolet Volt, which use radiators to dissipate heat, the Leaf must use ambient air and fans to cool its lithium-ion battery. Temperature extremes--whether -25 or 120 degrees F--can make air cooling is a challenge.
Musk said the production Leaf used a "much more primitive level of technology" than anything Tesla had considered putting into production, and predicted that the Leaf's pack would experience "huge degradation" in cold weather and essentially "shut off" in hot temperatures.
Nissan has warrantied its battery pack for 8 years/100,000 miles (as has Chevrolet for the 2011 Volt), which should reassure consumers anxious over the prospect of a five-figure replacement battery pack several years into their ownership.
Every carmaker simulates harsh duty cycles on its battery pack designs before they're approved for production. General Motors has done several tours of its battery laboratory during Volt development, and Nissan surely has a similar lab.
They probably can build your $12K pack of LiFePO4 for less, but the LiMn cells they use are not the same thing nor do they cost the same as TS/CALB LiFePO4. They have a higher energy density and are presumably made to closer tolerances in regards to capacity and internal resistance. I'm pretty sure the TS/CALB cells we use are also made in greater volume at this point than Nissan's LiMn cells so we actually have economies of scale in our favor. As Nissan ramps up production and actually starts selling vehicles in volume this should lower their costs as well and hopefully lower prices and/or allow longer range. There is room in the LEAF for about twice the battery pack but it would be a $50K vehicle at today's prices.If I could build a pack for $12K then Nissan should be able to build it for $4K
Agree. If it can work, simpler is better. Musk is obviously ignoring the possibility that Nissan's LiMn cells handle temperature extremes better than Tesla's LiCo cells and therefor don't need such an aggressive climate control regime. A Telsa Roadster left unplugged for an extended period can drain it's pack while trying to actively heat or cool it, a LEAF, and my car, won't do that.Interesting argument. Many have argued that liquid cooling is "superior" - yet note that 1940's technology air-cooled motors dominate in aviation