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Question:
Seeing that EV technology is changing so rapidly these days, how do you choose what batteries, motors and other components to use in your builds? Do you think any major auto OEM (like Tesla) will eventually sell their batteries, motors and other components direct to consumers or garages?
Answer:
It all depends on what the customer is looking for and you go from there. I think the major manufactures outside Tesla already do, its just prohibitively expensive at this point. Also its not like an engine that works basically anywhere. OEM motors are looking for information from all over the car and will not work without the proper modules also making it unfeasible to use.
These are good observations.

The availability of the complete Bolt battery pack, at a reasonable price, from GM dealers has come up in discussion here a few times. My guess is that the motor and transaxle are available, too, but the parts websites can be a challenge to navigate.

The difficulty of using OEM components (whether salvage or new) outside of the original vehicle context is, of course, a major topic of discussion here. Examples include components from Tesla (all Model S/X so far), Nissan (Leaf), and GM (Bolt).


Since this Audi is the only example I've seen of a Tesla motor adapted to a non-Tesla transmission, it would have been good to ask how this was accomplished.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks! I try to ask this or a similar question to everyone I interview. It's a great topic! I am very curious to see how Chevy in particular handles the selling of the eCOPO motor.

I have been trying to get Polykup to agree to a separate interview solely about the build of the Audi. This was more of a focus on their background & business. Its gotten very good views, so I hoping that gets them to agree to a follow up! Then again, they might want to share to much technical detail, given this is their business...
 

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I am very curious to see how Chevy in particular handles the selling of the eCOPO motor.
The situation for eCOPO Camaro components will be very different from regular production components, since the eCOPO is a promotional race vehicle (not a production or roadworthy vehicle), and the components are not even based on anything used by GM in production. The motor does use two BorgWarner HVH 250-150 cores, which were originally developed for GM's two-mode hybrid, but they are no longer used in any GM product. GM builds their own motors, similar in design (High-Voltage Hairpin bar-wound) to the HVH line.

According to GM's Russ O’Blenes (Director, Performance Variants, Parts and Motorsport) as quoted in a GM media page:
“The possibilities are intriguing and suggest a whole new world for racers,” said O’Blenes. “Chevrolet pioneered the concept of the high-performance crate engine right around the time the original COPO Camaro models were created, and the eCOPO project points to a future that could include electric crate motors for racing, or even your street rod. We’re not there yet, but it’s something we’re exploring.”
Crate engine distribution is very different from production car replacement component distribution.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes, not there yet but I think they will figure it out.



Last I saw they planned to have the same bell house mounting pattern and crankshaft flange so that its able to be mounted to the LS transmissions.The current set-up has it mounted the COPO 3-speed auto.


I am mostly interested to see what kind of "education" they provide or try to push out if they sell similar to how they sell crate motors. Only time will tell...
 

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GM stated that their series of crate electric motors would bolt up to most any GM tranny
used in muscle cars - 400, 350, 700, etc.
Obviously the crate engine is the bet way to go - you are not ghetting tied into a one-off made-up system that no one can fix outside of the guy who dreamed it up, and parts would be a nightmare.
 

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Reading between the lines, eCOPO was nothing more than GM PR riding the coattails of a high school teacher, who has a racing team, whose kids helped build the car, IMO. The easiest way to do that was to replace the LS with HV250 cores and use third party electronics. I doubt GM put a nickel into it and there's NOTHING in the conversion that uses GM EV parts, which should stink to any journalist worth their salt. I seriously doubt you'll see a "crate" conversion or an eCOPO from GM Performance Parts within a decade from now.
 

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Reading between the lines, eCOPO was nothing more than GM PR riding the coattails of a high school teacher, who has a racing team, whose kids helped build the car, IMO.
Sure, auto manufacturers often make PR with the efforts of race teams - that's why they pay contingency awards.

The easiest way to do that was to replace the LS with HV250 cores and use third party electronics. I doubt GM put a nickel into it and there's NOTHING in the conversion that uses GM EV parts, which should stink to any journalist worth their salt.
Most race teams are not factory-funded, and modifications for racing often have no connection to production parts. Do you really think there are any GM or Ford chassis components in "Chevrolet" and "Ford" NASCAR race cars? I do agree that the general lack of technical connection to past or present GM EVs suggests that GM was not involved in development of the eCOPO, although the HVH motors were originally developed by Remy (a former GM division) for GM's two-mode hybrids.

Yes, I agree that a reasonable journalist would note that there is no connection between the EV components in this race car and GM's production EVs.

I seriously doubt you'll see a "crate" conversion or an eCOPO from GM Performance Parts within a decade from now.
Perhaps not, but GM sells crate motors which share few if any parts with any production engine they have ever built.
 

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Remember the tesla powered audi that took the internet by storm! I caught up with the owner of Polykup & builder of that EV conversion!

https://electricss.com/qa-polykup/
I ordered this system based on limited research, this article included. I sent PolyKup 5K 6 months ago and got a lot of run around. Eventually he sent me one non functional component of the vcu. About 1/3 of promised package. This is not a viable business.. please don’t be duped like I was.
 

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I sent PolyKup 5K 6 months ago
I'd be interested in hearing both sides of the story here. Are they willing to explain their side? Could you start a thread and offer them the option of responding?

Also, if you paid via c/c or other recognised means then there will likely be a channel to recover the money for non performance.
 

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Looking back , it’s been like six months and a couple of days so yeah. I’ve sent plenty of people in the EV space thousands of dollars. Zero EV, Steath EV, Tesla Parts in San Diego all come to mind, with no issues. There has to be some element of trust due to the limited number of suppliers for this hobby. I’m just putting this out there as a cautionary tale. Like I said I came to this site trying to research this issue I found no red flags related to PolyKup and if I save one person from having the experience I’m having I feel like it’s the right thing to do to speak up about it.
 

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Uh oh. Someone else on this board just reached out to me in a PM saying that they’re in a similar situation with PolyKup…. Is this considered mail fraud or wire fraud? Can I reach out to his local police department?
 

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Did a bit of research.

Look at the crew on the "team" of Polykup, and there's one guy who is a contractor software developer, and a graphics artist, and a guy with seemingly little experience who is a circuit designer. Founder you can read for yourself.

Here's the Polykup board:
Output device Office equipment Font Computer monitor accessory Machine

Here's the source of that board:

Passive circuit component Circuit component Green Hardware programmer Electronic component


Advantics is a French company that was started by none other than Michal Elias, who was among the first to hack and get a Tesla LDU running:


It appears to me, and I may be wrong, that Polykup's efforts were merely to repackage the Tesla battery and LDU into their Audi, coupling the Tesla to the hollowed out Audi tranny, which was acclaimed on Youtube (including Rich Rebuilds).

From here, looking at the bios, it looks to me like a team was assembled to create a driver interface storyboard of screens for the web pitch - there's a graphics designer on the team.

There's a "board designer", but I don't see any board designs other than the Advantics board and his resume doesn't yell at me as having done very many board designs.

There's also a software contractor dude, but none of the bios reek with "embedded software designer", to me.

So, I think what we may have is a GUI driver display concept based on the Advantics board, and if you squint you can see the Advantics marking on Polykup's offering, but I don't see the resources to take it any further. Maybe Advantics has a screen controller after all these years? I didn't look and someone with time should.

If anything, in my opinion the Advantics board should have been a passthrough to those that gave them money.

I've funded many a Kickstarter and seen so many projects fail that use customer money to fund R&D.

Maybe this started out as a naive, well-intended effort that was way over their heads. Maybe they're still working on it. One thing it does take a lot of experience to do, though, is to fall on your sword and tell your customers where you are in delivery and what happened to their money.

Call them. At least get an Advantics board out of it is what I'd suggest. In the Audi videos, at least you see a working LDU that you can control with buttons, switches and pedals...all Elias' team's efforts from what I can tell.

This is all my own opinion and perspective, which could be totally out of whack. I don't have enough facts to draw any definite conclusions. Some of you may have a vested interest to take this much deeper.
 

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That's some interesting info for sure...

I spoke to them briefly a while ago about my project and using their products. I get that from a business point of view they probably prefer their own local market rather than trying to cover international markets as well, But when I asked about whether things like the maps and sim card cell service functions would work in other countries there was no real answer. They assured me that they could make a pretty graphic of my car on the screen though. surely adding map support for another country using google maps or another already offered api should be easy enough from a software standpoint, so perhaps it is a skills problem of the staff? I am talking out my ass a bit, so take it with a grain of salt.

Im trying to remember who it was in the youtube community that used Polykup in their build, But I do remember them remarking that what turned up was a bare electronic device with no enclosure in a recycled postal package and no real documentation. It really had an unfinished 'good luck figuring the rest out yourself' vibe to it. For the money involved, you'd expect an enclosure to hold the board and some level of documentation on how to make it all work, faq etc
 

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I did, in fact receive an Advantics VCU2 as described above , after about 4 months, in a box with some popcorn packing. This however is not what I ordered, I ordered the delux package on Sam’s recommendation. It did have the enclosure but no documents whatsoever. No terminal connectors, no guidance as to how to proceed. Upon request Sam sent a file from advantics with fairly high level instructions which I hope I can navigate. I then reached out again and asked where the rest was and was told it was coming in 2 days. Why package and send one part and then plan on sending all the rest of the components 2 days later? This was 2-3 weeks ago, before I finally reached the end of my rope.
My message may be being heard however as yesterday I received a message from Sam saying he’s unsure why I’m feeling scammed and all the promised components have already been shipped. No tracking info provided however. If in fact everything shows up , as promised, I will amend each and every post I have made to reflect that fact. Future customers may take this information and use it as they wish, either choosing to go directly to Advantics or choose a different vendor or perhaps negotiating a reasonable deposit with balance due COD…
 

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A week later nothing ever showed up even though PolyKup had reached out and said he had shipped out the balance of my order. I reached out through our communication channel of choice 24 Hrs ago and have not received a response.
 
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