Q: On iBooster vs Stock brake booster + aftermarket Vacuum Pumps?

2409 Views 9 Replies 5 Participants Last post by gunns, Jan 14, 2022

gunns

Discussion Starter · Dec 27, 2021

I haven't posted much here since I started my EV conversion process because most of the work I've done so far with my 83 Ferrari Mondial has been in stripping out the unnecessary components (like the engine) and rebuilding the suspension.

I've documented my progress on this thread on fchat here: 83 Mondial QV - EV conversion project using Tesla LDU

I'm now to the point where I'm starting to order EV components and address some vehicle specific issues. While some people have done EV conversions on Ferrari 308s, I haven't seen a build yet for a Mondial conversion.

In going through the various interior systems while I wait for my EV parts, I noticed that I will need some kind of vacuum pump to actuate the various HVAC flaps. While don't plan to get HVAC working initially, I DO plan on having them work eventually so i want to allow for their operation.

Q1: Does the iBooster GEN1/GEN2 offer some kind of accessory vacuum generation OR is it strictly a 12V operated brake booster?
- It seems like the most elegant solution (fabricate a mount to attach in place of the stock brake booster) but if I cannot get vacuum for the HVAC flaps, I think I must pass.

Q2: For the standalone 12V vacuum pumps (which will also require a reservoir), what are the best options for 2021?

I found this retailer's old blog talking about the Mes-DEA 70/6E2 and the Hella UP28.

Vacuum pump for power brakes - EVcreate

In a car converted to electric there is no motor vacuum available. Most straightforward solution is to use an electric vacuum pump. Unfortunately these are noisy. I have looked at a few and tested a Mes-Dea and Hella. Spoiler: I prefer electric power brakes.

www.evcreate.nl

I also found some rotary vane vacuum pumps from companies like master power/LEEDs but I haven't found any dB ratings for these kinds of pumps

Black Bandit Electric Vacuum Pump Kit | Brake Vacuum Booster

Looking for a quiet, vibration free electric brake vacuum booster pump? Try our efficient and quality-tested Black Bandit series vacuum pump today!

leedbrakes.com

Silent Drive Vacuum Pump

silent drive vacuum pump

www.mpbrakes.com

To solve my need for vacuum for my brake booster AND my HVAC flaps, are these still the best options to consider?

Thanks in advance,
-g

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brian_

· #2 · Dec 27, 2021 (Edited)

gunns said:
Q1: Does the iBooster GEN1/GEN2 offer some kind of accessory vacuum generation OR is it strictly a 12V operated brake booster?

It is only a braking system - there is no vacuum component.

A modern car doesn't need vacuum for anything, and the Bosch braking components don't support HVAC functions in an older car. Modern cars use electric motors for HVAC flaps/doors, instead of vacuum.

Before they switched to the iBooster, Tesla used an electrically powered vacuum pump for brake assist - maybe there are some of those pumps still around. I wondered if the Leaf did too, and apparently it did, because I did a search Leaf vacuum pumps and found an aftermarket replacement for the stock early Leaf vacuum pump in eBay; it apparently fits hundreds of different vehicles... including various Ferrari models. My guess is that any vacuum pump used by OEMs would be suitable.

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gunns

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 27, 2021

brian_ said:
It is only a braking system - there is no vacuum component.

A modern car doesn't need vacuum for anything, and the Bosch braking components don't support HVAC functions in an older car. Modern cars use electric motors for HVAC flaps/doors, instead of vacuum.

I see. Thanks for the confirmation. Vacuum pump it is.

In looking at aftermarket vacuum pump options, I found three options that are probably worth considering

MES-DEA 70/6E2 aka Tesla Roadster pump <58dBA ~$300
Master Power Silent Drive Pump (rotary vane) 65dBA ~$600
LEEDs Black Bandit VP001 ??? dB $380

Q: Does anyone here have experience with the LEEDs product?
If not, I may just go for the Tesla Roadster pump. Biggest downside is that its coming from the EU vs available in the US.

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brian_

· #4 · Dec 27, 2021

gunns said:
In looking at aftermarket vacuum pump options, I found three options that are probably worth considering

MES-DEA 70/6E2 aka Tesla Roadster pump <58dBA ~$300
Master Power Silent Drive Pump (rotary vane) 65dBA ~$600
LEEDs Black Bandit VP001 ??? dB $380

Q: Does anyone here have experience with the LEEDs product?
If not, I may just go for the Tesla Roadster pump. Biggest downside is that its coming from the EU vs available in the US.

It shouldn't be necessary to go all the way back to the Roadster - Tesla used a vacuum pump in the early Model S, too. $300 sounds like a lot for a decade-old vacuum pump.

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gunns

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 27, 2021

brian_ said:
It shouldn't be necessary to go all the way back to the Roadster - Tesla used a vacuum pump in the early Model S, too. $300 sounds like a lot for a decade-old vacuum pump.

FWIW, allegedly its new old stock.

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remy_martian

· #6 · Dec 28, 2021

You can get a new GM vacuum pump for $150...used, for prototyping, are about $50.

You should switch the pump on when you need it using a vacuum switch on your accumulator tank. HVAC doors move once or twice in a drive cycle, your Ferarri's brake squeal will cover for the pump turning on 😂

With a switch on the pump you don't have to be anal-retentive about every dBA a pump makes.

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gunns

Discussion Starter · #7 · Dec 28, 2021 (Edited)

remy_martian said:
You can get a new GM vacuum pump for $150...used, for prototyping, are about $50.

You should switch the pump on when you need it using a vacuum switch on your accumulator tank. HVAC doors move once or twice in a drive cycle, your Ferarri's brake squeal will cover for the pump turning on 😂

With a switch on the pump you don't have to be anal-retentive about every dBA a pump makes.

That was always the plan: some of these pumps have built in vacuum switches but if they didnt I would install one anyway.

Im being anal retentive about this project because:
a) if you've ever worked on one of these old cars you'll understand how hand built they are. With no glorious sounding (but slower than a modern camry) flatplane crank engine, i suspect im going to hear a lot more creaking and noise from the various holes in the body. I'll plug as many as I don't need but this isn't a Toyota that goes together like legos.

B) I don't mind spending up to the $600 some of these vacuum options cost knowing full well that they are overpriced for the tech; however, if I do spend this kind of money, i would like the vac pump with the best QC and design (not just one in a pretty housing.

I was hoping someone has already bought all of these pumps, done a comparison, and shown all the nerds. If one doesn't exist, I may just have to make one.

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Bratitude

· #8 · Dec 28, 2021

Any vw diesel car has nice little cheap vacuum pumps. That plus a check valve, vacuum tank, and a pressure switch should work the hvca flaps great with out the pump running all the time.

this is a great little circuit to regulate the vacuum pump based on the vacuum pressure in the system

Electronic pressure switch for brake vacuum pump

openinverter.org

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piotrsko

· #9 · Dec 29, 2021

There's a cute little quiet vacuum pump in every F250 diesel that does all the vacuum required, but some say it is too small for brakes even with a big reservoir.

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gunns

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jan 14, 2022

I settled on the LEEDs vacuum pump and it seems like a pretty decent bit of kit. My only issue with it was that I couldn't get the relay to activate and stay activated when powered by my 200A craftsman wall plugged in "car starter"; for some reason, the car starter couldn't deal with the LEEDS vacuum pump ramp; it would energize the relay and immediately de-energize it (resulting in a "click click click" vs pumping).
Customer support for LEEDs (via phone) was actually pretty good. I had tested the internal components to confirm that the pump did indeed work (bypassed the relay and the vacuum switch). They were happy to take it back but suggested I try placing a battery in the circuit to see if that would help. It did so I'm keeping it.

Anyway, next step while i wait for my other EV components is to decide about the vacuum reservoir.
Q: How much volume do I really need for a vacuum reservoir for a brake booster and HVAC?

The stock one that came with the Mondial looks like an ancient 14oz can. That was obviously enough to actuate the HVAC flaps when the engine wasn't running but my post-EV conversion setup also needs to supply the brake booster.
I could fab something compact out of an old water bottle OR buy something with a check valve for pretty cheap.

https://www.morris4x4center.com/crown-automotive-vacuum-reservoir-52004366.html

https://www.amazon.com/Mota-Performance-A70269-Aluminum-Reservoir/dp/B002ZMBSM0/
- Aftermarket vacuum reservoirs like this are roughly 118ci^2 or 1.93 liters

Summit Racing SUM-G1464B Summit Racing™ Vacuum Reservoirs | Summit Racing

Free Shipping - Summit Racing™ Vacuum Reservoirs with qualifying orders of $99. Shop Vacuum Reservoirs at Summit Racing.

www.summitracing.com

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