It is not perfect or good or practical in ANY stretch.Terrible inefficient and expensive. Quickly refueled? Hardly. Your not going to pull it out of the air in a few minutes.
Station Pete. Stations. Pull up somewhere that already has it available, pour it in the tank, and drive away. The station keeps the high powered compression equipment and has the power to keep their tanks topped off. The EV doesn't need to generate any LN2. Also users can generate and store their own at home and can top off their tanks at home while they are recharging.
The station can even be dual mode, facilitating some direct plug in charging of the batteries at the same time.
The key point is that stations can be erected in short order, and that refillability goes down into the same 5-10 minute range that fueling gas cars now.
I acknowledge that the setup is crappy. But when the alternative is carrying $50K of batteries and hoping that charging stations directly connected to power plants (250 Kw, seriously?) come online without breaking our backs costwise, there are some limitations we may need to accept.
Why go to the extreme of converting the electricity to an inert gas then using that to push your vehicle. Damn you really need to see the reality of that.
Fast refillability and cost effective. No one is going to build or support a cost unsustainable infrastructure, especially when in relative terms that the cost of gas is so cheap that any alternative that's not in the ballpark isn't going to fly.
LN2 is already a widescale liquid that's an afterthough of other industrial gas processing. You can buy it off the shelf for less than 50 cents a gallon.
And to reiterate for the third time, this is not a replacement. It's the second component of a hybrid infrastructure for a plug in EV.
If you need a vehicle with 100 mile range at freeway speeds then be sure you build or buy one that does that for you. If you need 300 miles then use a clean turbo diesel vehicle. It is truly the next best way to go a long distance for less. I guarantee our nitrogen system will leave you stranded far sooner than the battery vehicle or diesel vehicle.
As an enthusiast, cost is of no object to you. You cannot propose an infrastructure without doing a comparative cost analysis. Diesel is out because we're only having a discussion of all electric infrastructure. If diesel is in, then the problem is solved using current tech to put a plug in diesel/EV hybrid on the road and call it a day.
Here are the parameters:
1. 250+ mile range.
2. Refilling from empty to full in 15 minutes or less (I'll throw in an extra 5 minutes)
3. Per mile cost competive with gas/diesel at $2.50/gallon over a 5 year period. I'll allow for amortization of equipment over that time.
4. All electric with no petro in the loop.
It just cannot be all batteries. Not cost sustainable and no current tech will accept the nearly 100 kW of charge in that time period at anywhere near the price point. Diesel is out.
This is a think out of the box thread. Time to get to it.
I will go further with the electricity used to convert nitrogen to a usage form than you will go after you do the cost factor for the conversion and then buying the nitrogen then driving how ever long you can go.
Did I not start with it's inefficient? This is a supplemental thread. The only reason for the discussion is fast refillability at a cost effective price point. The most efficient, and primary mechanism, is charging of batteries. But batteries cannot currently meet points 1,2 and 3 above all at the same time. So you have to supplement with something else that's cheap, even if it's inefficient.
Go electric. Go direct. Use solar to a very large bank of batteries then use that bank to do fast charging. No other conversions needed. During the time no one is charging the charge from the solar will be banked in a huge battery to be utilized later and it will still be far more efficient. Building a Solar Electric Fast Charge Station like your typical Station is a very doable thing and even existing stations can ADD that to an existing system that caters to gassers that will still remain for a long time to come.
Price it out for me. Time it out for me. Do we have batteries that will accept that type of charge in the 10-15 minute timeframe that's cost effective? What's the cycle life going to be? Most LiFePo4 cells accept charge at 5C or less. That's why it takes hours to charge. How are you going to get that down to 15 minutes and keep the cost competitive?
I have no disagreement with you about augmenting existing stations. Side by side is how it'll get done. But like most consumers, I'm going to look at the sign with the price on it to decide if I'm going to buy. If gas cost me $50 to go 400 miles, and electricity cost me $16 to go 100 miles... If filling with gas takes 10 minutes, and filling with electricity takes an hour, then I'm not convinced as it costs more and is less convenient.
I have been driving my Leaf since Last June on a daily basis to work and back and a few side trips too. I would not have purchased the car if it did not fit the needs. My Leaf is used literally for 99% of MY driving and when I do NEED to go further I DO take the ICE. Not an issue. It also only costs me $1.50 to go 45 miles. Guaranteed you won't be doing that in your nitrogen vehicle.
You are an enthusiast. I'm arguing this from the perspective of an average ordinary user. So unfortunately, I'm going to have to pick apart your analysis:
1. The only discussion we are having is the 1% that the Leaf does not cover. While I wish that we could convince the populace that 99% is good enough, it's not. The only argument you will get from them is that if their mother calls and says come now, and she lives 150 miles away, the car won't get it done. It's a perception problem, and most of us are way to invested to see it. No ordinary person is going to drive home, and pick up the ICE. No ordinary person is going to call a cab. An ordinary person will hop in their car, even if the gas light is on, and start driving toward their mother. They will stop, get gas in 5 minutes, and keep moving. This situation and how people feel about it is the only reason we continue to have range extension discussions. Ordinary people already have a set expectation of their vehicle, and any challenger that isn't better and cheaper in virtually every area isn't going to get traction.
2. Does the $1.50 include the price of the charging station? From Nissan's site that $2K in cost. How do you amortize that? Also how much is the battery replacement? How do you amortize that too?
3. Charging at 120V takes 20 hours, 7 hours at 240V. This entire discussion is what happens when the car is on E due to unforseen circumstances.
4. The 480V quick charge is a step in the right direction. However, it's still 30 minutes, it only gets you an 80% charge, and it's unclear how much such a charge will cost, or where you can get it.
People switch because something is better or cheaper, not out of a sense of nobility. I'm wondering what will happen with the Leaf once the enthusiast market gets its fill.
I feel the same about any type of fuel cell too. They work but using electricity to convert is poorly used when that power could be banked in a battery for direct charging to a battery is the best way. The fuel cell vehicle can't really go any further than a good well built electric vehicle anyway and its way cheaper and available NOW.
Fuel cells use petro, so it's off my list.
I know that I'm being stubborn, but we are really discussing infrastructure sea change here. While limitations and high overall costs work in an enthusiast market, it will not fly with regular consumers. Just believing isn't going to be enough to get a large number of people to convert. People want a tangible return for switching.
Say for the sake of argument you have the Leaf, and you outfit it with an LN2 dewar, radiator, and air turbine and the LN2 filling infrastructure exists. In the emergency with the proverbial mother, one would hop in the car and start driving on the remaining electricity and using the LN2 that's in the tank. Before both run out, stop in a station, take as much of a fast charge as you can get in 5 minutes along with a full tank of LN2, and keep it moving.
It closes that 1% gap and does it in a cost effective way. Which is the objective.
ga2500ev
