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Re: [EVDL] 200 mile range at 60mph. 300 lb battery pack. Highschoolproject.

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Re: [EVDL] 200 mile range at 60mph. 300 lb battery pack. Highschoolproject.

A very neat vehicle, congratulations on the accomplishment. Very well
done by the parents, teachers and highschoolers.


I've been all over this vehicle's website, and they don't make it very
clear how they arrived at the MPGe figures. Are they real-world, are
they estimates, how long/far were they running at what speed? All of
these things are available for the X PRIZE vehicles, both real-world and
dyno... in other words, have they actually run it for 200 miles at 60mph
and achieved 300 MPGe? Or was it extrapolated? Was it stop-and-go
like real world traffic or pulse-and-glide hypermiling style on a closed
track? What was the average speed around the track? Oval or winding
(ie, turn in BOTH directions ;-) Was it completely smooth, or were
there potholes/dips?

When I checked, the best I could find is that it seemed to be done on a
7.7 mile course when the car was geared for top speed around 43 mph.
This is from memory, so if anyone fact checks me and I'm wrong, I'd be
thrilled to know the actual figures. Looking here, I suspect I'm right:

So to say the words 200 mile range, 60 mph and 300 MPGe all together is
highly misleading.

>From what I can see in the photos, this vehicle is missing features that
we've come to expect in a car... from the basic things like a roof and
windshield wipers to legally required things like head/tail lights and
turn signals -- this is critical because these things add weight which
directly impacts MPGe.

Missing safety features in the X PRIZE incurred weight penalties, even
on vehicles that were not legally required to have them (3-wheelers as
motorcycles are not required to have ABS braking systems). The shell
would not withstand daily use, as it is shrinkwrap (the 3M product used
to seal leaky windows). Unfortunately Motorweek allowed them to compare
the 300 MPG to the X PRIZE vehicle instead of editing it out, further
showing MW's journalistic irrelevance covering the bleeding edge tech in
the car industry. This vehicle would not have qualified to even get on
the track for the X PRIZE as it's not road legal and is a single seater.
West Philly, on the other hand is a high school that DID compete in the
X PRIZE, and got to meet with the President:

I get 200-600 MPGe in my two seater Twike human-electric hybrid
depending on how much I pedal and how fast I go. It too can do about 60
mph. But it doesn't get 200-600 MPGe at 60mph. But it does have a
roof, head/tail lights, stereo system and IS road legal.

High MPGe (over 100) is relatively easy -- you can blow away 100 MPGe on
an eBike. HOWEVER, high MPGe at Interstate speeds (60+ MPH), for long
distances (100-200 miles) in a road-legal 2 or 4 passenger vehicle is
not easy. If it were, the automakers would've stepped in and walked
away with the X PRIZE -- but the risk was too great for the possible

Regardless of your feelings about the X PRIZE itself, trivializing the
results of the competitors by comparing only the MPGe results to
vehicles that would not even qualify to be on most racetracks (you need
brake lights, and you have to pass safety inspections which require
things like, well, mirrors) is... well... highschoolish: it's trying to
make yourself look good by putting somebody else down "we got 300 MPGe
and the best X PRIZE competitors only got (less) MPGe". This is a
paraphrased quote from one of their advisors that MotorWeek broadcast.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Bob Rice
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 10:29 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 200 mile range at 60mph. 300 lb battery pack.

Now yur talking!! What a freshing read after the X prize scamm! Yeah!
they would LIKE a car builder to pick up the Panacea desigh? In their
dreams! Sigh. Look far that James Worden got with the Sunrise project? A

Hellova lotta monny went into THAT design. too! Lee Hart saw a hiothing
thing there, trying to revive the Sunrise. IT ran about 300 miles on the

public highways~Boston -NYC Of Cott a good write up in the TY Slimes,
even.coure it used the then, new NMH badd-eries BEFOR General Murders
hold of the rights to them. We hanw wher THAT got? IF you EV fans
the "Gceat Electric Race" of . oh, about 1971-2? It was between MIT and
both citaltlia of high teck? Better spellers, too?!But in it's later
the Gas Sheeple dove in,m with BIG bux to defeat the purocoe of the
thing.Sorta like the X prize scam? Big money. Don't rock the boat, EVen
it was the Titanic?Oh though ya would never ask? Of cOURSE a
rig won the Clean car race. Jiggle the rules; DON'T count the polution
involved in MANYFACTURING the gas used!BUT they wer quick to tote up the

"polution" from the electric factory?Like' Watching "Whelled the
Car"You stomch churned through it, as realoty$$ catches up with Big Bux?

"the slogen" America Runs on Dunkin" Downuts"~ On TV DRUMMED into ur
deformed minds!A"a merica rouns BIG coperation Monies"

OK ? rather going in my USUAL rant? Just BUILD your own car or get
line for yur Leaf? Can't wait to see it go over big time? But can't
it, the Jetta will do for now? Can't wait for sheeple to start stacking
up in recing yards, for the Badderies!We should gave a great selection
sheeple cell foning, texting,clowing through stop lights and RR
crossings>g>?!PROBABLY wouldn't be enogh usable cells in this event?

But these noble atoble I HOPES don't for noght?

Still wating for a miricle? The Golf ISN"T leaking they say???

Sea Ya

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 10:14 AM
Subject: [EVDL] 200 mile range at 60mph. 300 lb battery pack. High

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