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Discussion Starter #1
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

Hey Pete

I've done these motors (or at least very close to) for
forklift applications. First off, these aren't what I
know as a series wound motor. These Baldor made
motors have field windings that are (what I've always
called) stator wound fields. If you notice it has no
pole shoe bolts (which hole the pole piece (or shoe)
in place. As to how brush advancement plays out with
such a motor I haven't a clue as all the ones I've
built have gone to lift service in OEM applications.

On a good note, if it runs on 12 it'll run on higher,
so that's a good sign. Now that doesn't mean it'll
run good, meaning that it may need to be rebrushed and
have the commutator turned if in need as you'll get
brush arcing.

On a negitive side, these Baldors have small brushes
which limits it's ability to carry current and is it's
weak link so to speak. They also have a very thin
top-plate side to thier brush holder which can warp
and grab the brush if over heated. What's funny is
the other half of the holder is a big pig block of
cast bronze (go figure)lol. By removing the cover
band you'll see what I mean. While you're there grab
some pics of the brushes and commutator (best you can)
and I'll put an eye ball to them to see how she looks
on the inside.

Hope this helps
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
http://www.hitorqueelectric.com


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Discussion Starter #2
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

Jim,

Couple of questions.

1. (stator wound) Do you mean Shunt Wound?

2. Pole Shoe Bolts? No clue what your saying here. Still learning.
Steep learning curve you know.

I have looked at the brush and commutator and it looks pretty good.
Clean. Someone else here has a Baldor of the same physical size but
he says it's a compound wound motor. He explained that it has two
extra small wires coming out of the motor along with the 4 large
wires. Mine does not have those smaller wires. Aside from that it is
the same visual and physical size. I do know that Baldor did make
these older motors in Series Wound, Compound Wound and Shunt Wound. I
just wished I knew exactly mine was. My label tag had been removed so
I have no real clue except from what I am finding out from members here.

The one thing I do know is that this motor had been used on the
street for years in San Francisco in an older converted Datsun 411
Sedan. Not sure of the voltage that was used. Could not have been
much as it only looks like batteries were installed in the trunk
area. Maybe 8 or 10 12 volt batteries by the looks of things. Kinda a
best guess. It has no controllers or such anymore but the motor and
adaptor are still with the car. I did not purchase it from it's
original owner that converted it to electric but I do know it was
done quite some time ago.

Pete




Jim Husted wrote:

> Hey Pete
>
> I've done these motors (or at least very close to) for
> forklift applications. First off, these aren't what I
> know as a series wound motor. These Baldor made
> motors have field windings that are (what I've always
> called) stator wound fields. If you notice it has no
> pole shoe bolts (which hole the pole piece (or shoe)
> in place. As to how brush advancement plays out with
> such a motor I haven't a clue as all the ones I've
> built have gone to lift service in OEM applications.
>
> On a good note, if it runs on 12 it'll run on higher,
> so that's a good sign. Now that doesn't mean it'll
> run good, meaning that it may need to be rebrushed and
> have the commutator turned if in need as you'll get
> brush arcing.
>
> On a negitive side, these Baldors have small brushes
> which limits it's ability to carry current and is it's
> weak link so to speak. They also have a very thin
> top-plate side to thier brush holder which can warp
> and grab the brush if over heated. What's funny is
> the other half of the holder is a big pig block of
> cast bronze (go figure)lol. By removing the cover
> band you'll see what I mean. While you're there grab
> some pics of the brushes and commutator (best you can)
> and I'll put an eye ball to them to see how she looks
> on the inside.
>
> Hope this helps
> Cya
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
> http://www.hitorqueelectric.com
>
>
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Discussion Starter #3
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

Hi Pete,

Back in the 1970's, Baldor made some DC motors which
ended up on EVs. They used the stator from their
induction motor (AC) and modified it for the DC motor.
So it is not the typical rolled steel frame with 4
separate pole pieces attached inside with bolts thru
the frame. Instead it is a laminated stator pressed
inside the housing. The AC stators are non-salient,
meaning they have lots of teeth and slots (like 36 or
more) around the whole inner diameter. The AC winding
is distributed in these slots, making an armature
winding. When using the AC stator core for DC, they
punched out some of the teeth leaving 4 sections, to
make a 4 pole field. The the DC field winding was
wound in place on the remaining 4 sets of teeth and
slots.

Seems like a round about way, but saved a lot of
tooling $. The result wasn't too bad. And could be
wound for series, shunt, or compound DC motors. From
your pictures, yours looks like a series wound.

Word has it that they used light weight comms and
brushes. Also, looks like your motor is totally
enclosed. Some were ventilated, or forced air cooled.
Jet Industries ElectraVan used one of these Baldor 9
inch motors, forced vented at 96 volts. It had some
durability issues and was replaced early on with the
Prestolite MTC-4001, 7".

Just my opinion, keep below 96 volts. Don't try to
race with it. Maybe a current limit like 400 amps,
but not for long. Stay off hills, or go slow in a low
gear. Keep runs short, or figure out a way to vent
the motor. The way it sits, I'd guess it rated at 7
or 8 hp for one hour. Try to avoid overloads for more
than a few seconds. Too much current for too long
will melt the soldered connections on the comm.

Other than that, nice motor. Hope this helps.

Jeff M

--- gottdi <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> I am rebuilding an older electric vehicle and
> putting it back on the road. It
> is a 67 Datsun Bluebird 4 door sedan. It was
> converted years ago and used in
> San Francisco for many years. The little car has a
> Baldor motor installed
> but no information tags remain on the motor. The
> motor has been removed but
> will be reinstalled soon. I have looked at the motor
> and brush areas and
> even hooked up 12v to see if it works. I was told it
> did not. It does at
> least with 12v. All looks clean and does not smell
> of burnt motor. I know
> that smell anywhere. I was wanting to know if
> someone here on this list is
> using a baldor motor and could pass along some
> information. It looks like a
> very good motor. Clean and no rust anywhere on the
> motor. Here is my photo
> album of the motor.
>
> www.inertext.homeunix.com/baldor
>
> I am still unsure of what advancing the motor is for
> and if any motor can be
> advanced or only some? Not all of my information is
> here yet so I am doing
> this slowly. I have the ability but I do need to go
> through the learning
> curve. I did that with my VW TDI.
>
> www.inertext.homeunix.com/newlife
>
> That is the photo album of my TDI.
>
> I am thinking of zilla for my controller but some
> have said it's a 6 month
> wait. Yuck!. Ok, what about curtis or Alltrack? Or ?
> Is there more?
>
> What about chargers? I do plan on Optima Yellow
> tops. Price is not an issue.
>
> I know it's alot but I need the info.
>
> Thanks a bunch
> Pete


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Discussion Starter #4
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

Jeff,

Yes it does but it also means I will need to look at purchasing a new
motor that is designed for the EV. I will be driving this a good 44
miles per day and a few of the miles are going to be up hill from the
hwy to work. The rest will be on flat ground except for one pretty
steep hill out of town when I go home from work. It is short but
steep and on the hwy. Maybe I will put this motor back into the
little car and sell it and then just go get me a new motor and a VW
Golf or something and put one together. We do need an EV around here
to go with our Solar.

Thanks for explaining things to me. That helps a bunch.

Pete

Question, could the motor run smoothly on low voltage and still be
bad? In like not running on higher voltage?

Jeff Major wrote:

>
> Hi Pete,
>
> Back in the 1970's, Baldor made some DC motors which
> ended up on EVs. They used the stator from their
> induction motor (AC) and modified it for the DC motor.
> So it is not the typical rolled steel frame with 4
> separate pole pieces attached inside with bolts thru
> the frame. Instead it is a laminated stator pressed
> inside the housing. The AC stators are non-salient,
> meaning they have lots of teeth and slots (like 36 or
> more) around the whole inner diameter. The AC winding
> is distributed in these slots, making an armature
> winding. When using the AC stator core for DC, they
> punched out some of the teeth leaving 4 sections, to
> make a 4 pole field. The the DC field winding was
> wound in place on the remaining 4 sets of teeth and
> slots.
>
> Seems like a round about way, but saved a lot of
> tooling $. The result wasn't too bad. And could be
> wound for series, shunt, or compound DC motors. From
> your pictures, yours looks like a series wound.
>
> Word has it that they used light weight comms and
> brushes. Also, looks like your motor is totally
> enclosed. Some were ventilated, or forced air cooled.
> Jet Industries ElectraVan used one of these Baldor 9
> inch motors, forced vented at 96 volts. It had some
> durability issues and was replaced early on with the
> Prestolite MTC-4001, 7".
>
> Just my opinion, keep below 96 volts. Don't try to
> race with it. Maybe a current limit like 400 amps,
> but not for long. Stay off hills, or go slow in a low
> gear. Keep runs short, or figure out a way to vent
> the motor. The way it sits, I'd guess it rated at 7
> or 8 hp for one hour. Try to avoid overloads for more
> than a few seconds. Too much current for too long
> will melt the soldered connections on the comm.
>
> Other than that, nice motor. Hope this helps.
>
> Jeff M
>
> --- gottdi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> I am rebuilding an older electric vehicle and
>> putting it back on the road. It
>> is a 67 Datsun Bluebird 4 door sedan. It was
>> converted years ago and used in
>> San Francisco for many years. The little car has a
>> Baldor motor installed
>> but no information tags remain on the motor. The
>> motor has been removed but
>> will be reinstalled soon. I have looked at the motor
>> and brush areas and
>> even hooked up 12v to see if it works. I was told it
>> did not. It does at
>> least with 12v. All looks clean and does not smell
>> of burnt motor. I know
>> that smell anywhere. I was wanting to know if
>> someone here on this list is
>> using a baldor motor and could pass along some
>> information. It looks like a
>> very good motor. Clean and no rust anywhere on the
>> motor. Here is my photo
>> album of the motor.
>>
>> www.inertext.homeunix.com/baldor
>>
>> I am still unsure of what advancing the motor is for
>> and if any motor can be
>> advanced or only some? Not all of my information is
>> here yet so I am doing
>> this slowly. I have the ability but I do need to go
>> through the learning
>> curve. I did that with my VW TDI.
>>
>> www.inertext.homeunix.com/newlife
>>
>> That is the photo album of my TDI.
>>
>> I am thinking of zilla for my controller but some
>> have said it's a 6 month
>> wait. Yuck!. Ok, what about curtis or Alltrack? Or ?
>> Is there more?
>>
>> What about chargers? I do plan on Optima Yellow
>> tops. Price is not an issue.
>>
>> I know it's alot but I need the info.
>>
>> Thanks a bunch
>> Pete
>
>
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Discussion Starter #5
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

--- [email protected] wrote:

> Question, could the motor run smoothly on low
> voltage and still be
> bad? In like not running on higher voltage?
>

Hey Pete,

My guess is that if it runs smoothly at 12 volts, it
will be smooth at 48, 72 volts. But do not try this
at no load. It will over speed. As speed increases,
out of balance armature might become noticeable, or
bouncing brushes from an untrue comm. And as you
start to load the motor, and current goes up, some
issues might pop up. Most likely in the area of
commutation. You never know until you try. It is
unlikely that it will simply not run at higher voltage
if it runs at 12.

Jeff

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Major" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor


>
> Hi Pete,
>
> Back in the 1970's, Baldor made some DC motors which
> ended up on EVs.

Yeah! I had one! They were pretty crappy, Killed it in about a week,
in my Rabbit! The comm and brush rigging was SO wimpy, the comm connections
melted out early on. NOBODY solders in comm, commections, nowadaze! The
fields were wound with relatively many turns of round wire and it WAS a
series motor.It was as BIG as a ADV or Warp 9" motor, with only a fraction
of the power! Then I got my ADV 9" .Motor issues went away!

So, drive lightly, as the Baldor wasn't EVen varnished with class H or
what ever they use now!

Good Luck!

Bob

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Discussion Starter #7
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

--- [email protected] wrote:

> Jim,
>
> Couple of questions.
>
> 1. (stator wound) Do you mean Shunt Wound?

Hey Pete

No, like Jeff desribed it's wound more like an AC
stator. I have a Baldor in house for a Zamboni
that'll I'll try to grab pics of and post at my site
for viewing. Having looked a this one it is a series
wound, just not a formed coil type which yours is
probably also.
>
> 2. Pole Shoe Bolts? No clue what your saying here.
> Still learning.
> Steep learning curve you know.

On a formed coil motor the pole shoes are located
inside but bolted from the outside. If you go to my
site you'll see the bolts located on the motor body.

> I have looked at the brush and commutator and it
> looks pretty good.
> Clean. Someone else here has a Baldor of the same
> physical size but
> he says it's a compound wound motor. He explained
> that it has two
> extra small wires coming out of the motor along with
> the 4 large
> wires. Mine does not have those smaller wires. Aside
> from that it is
> the same visual and physical size.

There are tons of motor that look the same on the
outside but are totally different on the inside. EVen
for me it's tough to try and judge a motor by just an
outside view, actually make that almost impossible 8^o


I do know that
> Baldor did make
> these older motors in Series Wound, Compound Wound
> and Shunt Wound. I
> just wished I knew exactly mine was. My label tag
> had been removed so
> I have no real clue except from what I am finding
> out from members here.

We try to help but as stated it gets tough. It's why
I asked for some inside pics as that way it's not a
total hip shoot 8^)
>
> The one thing I do know is that this motor had been
> used on the
> street for years in San Francisco in an older
> converted Datsun 411
> Sedan. Not sure of the voltage that was used.

Being it was used doesn't always mean it's right for
you. What worked for one doesn't always meet the
needs of another.

Could
> not have been
> much as it only looks like batteries were installed
> in the trunk
> area. Maybe 8 or 10 12 volt batteries by the looks
> of things. Kinda a
> best guess.

I'm the motor guy here so I'll leave this for others
to chime in on.

It has no controllers or such anymore
> but the motor and
> adaptor are still with the car. I did not purchase
> it from it's
> original owner that converted it to electric but I
> do know it was
> done quite some time ago.

As Bob noted the brush rigging is the downfall of this
motor. FWIW I've always hated Baldor motor and have
always called them BalDorks, hehehe. In general they
are tough to get parts for (specially without a tag
number) and in general a lot less user friendly than
the other motor types like GE, Prestolite, ADC, Warp,
ect.

Anyway try and get me some pics and I can shed more
light.
Hope this helps
Cya
Jim Husted
HiTorque Electric


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Discussion Starter #8
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

gottdi wrote:
> rebuilding an older electric vehicle... has a Baldor motor installed
> but no information tags remain on the motor. anyone using a baldor
> motor and could pass along some information.

Baldors are generally good motors, though many were built with class B
insulation (130 deg.C max) instead of class H (180 deg.C max) preferred
for on-road EV use. The main drawback of the lower insulation class is
that it is easier to burn out the motor from overheating.

Looks like an old forklift motor; probably rated at 36v or 48v, but
capable of taking more. You advance the brushes to reduce arcing at
higher-than-rated voltages. Brush advance won't be necessary unless you
expect to run much higher voltages (96v or more).

It would run cooler if you don't mind cutting holes in the metal bands
at the ends and using an external blower to run cooling air through it.

> I am thinking of zilla for my controller but some have said it's a 6
> month wait. Yuck! Ok, what about curtis or Alltrack? Or? Is there
> more?

A Zilla is probably too much controller for this motor. You can turn it
down enough so you don't fry the motor; but then why buy so much controller?

A Curtis 1221 or 1231 would be fine. The Alltrax controllers are
generally for smaller, lower power vehicles but could be used if you're
on a tight budget. Besides these, there are lots more; Auburn, GE,
Sevcon, Zapi, etc.

> What about chargers? I do plan on Optima Yellow tops. Price is not an
> issue.

If you are thinking of Optimas and Zillas, are you sure you want to use
this motor? It will be your weakest link, unless it gets substantially
rebuilt.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net

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Discussion Starter #9
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

Pete,

Might be the spec for the Baldor?

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/

Jeff


--- gottdi <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> I am rebuilding an older electric vehicle and
> putting it back on the road. It
> is a 67 Datsun Bluebird 4 door sedan. It was
> converted years ago and used in
> San Francisco for many years. The little car has a
> Baldor motor installed
> but no information tags remain on the motor. The
> motor has been removed but
> will be reinstalled soon. I have looked at the motor
> and brush areas and
> even hooked up 12v to see if it works. I was told it
> did not. It does at
> least with 12v. All looks clean and does not smell
> of burnt motor. I know
> that smell anywhere. I was wanting to know if
> someone here on this list is
> using a baldor motor and could pass along some
> information. It looks like a
> very good motor. Clean and no rust anywhere on the
> motor. Here is my photo
> album of the motor.
>
> www.inertext.homeunix.com/baldor
>
> I am still unsure of what advancing the motor is for
> and if any motor can be
> advanced or only some? Not all of my information is
> here yet so I am doing
> this slowly. I have the ability but I do need to go
> through the learning
> curve. I did that with my VW TDI.
>
> www.inertext.homeunix.com/newlife
>
> That is the photo album of my TDI.
>
> I am thinking of zilla for my controller but some
> have said it's a 6 month
> wait. Yuck!. Ok, what about curtis or Alltrack? Or ?
> Is there more?
>
> What about chargers? I do plan on Optima Yellow
> tops. Price is not an issue.
>
> I know it's alot but I need the info.
>
> Thanks a bunch
> Pete


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Discussion Starter #10
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

Jeff,

That is actually a larger motor. Mine is shorter and not as wide.
Mine is only 15 or so inches long not including the shaft. 17 or so
inches including the shaft. May be close but the one pictured is for
sure larger than mine. By the way, that is the first one I found.
Specs will be sketchy until I can actually come up with another
baldor motor with every thing intact.

Pete



Jeff Major wrote:

>
> Pete,
>
> Might be the spec for the Baldor?
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/
>
> Jeff
>
>
> --- gottdi <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> I am rebuilding an older electric vehicle and
>> putting it back on the road. It
>> is a 67 Datsun Bluebird 4 door sedan. It was
>> converted years ago and used in
>> San Francisco for many years. The little car has a
>> Baldor motor installed
>> but no information tags remain on the motor. The
>> motor has been removed but
>> will be reinstalled soon. I have looked at the motor
>> and brush areas and
>> even hooked up 12v to see if it works. I was told it
>> did not. It does at
>> least with 12v. All looks clean and does not smell
>> of burnt motor. I know
>> that smell anywhere. I was wanting to know if
>> someone here on this list is
>> using a baldor motor and could pass along some
>> information. It looks like a
>> very good motor. Clean and no rust anywhere on the
>> motor. Here is my photo
>> album of the motor.
>>
>> www.inertext.homeunix.com/baldor
>>
>> I am still unsure of what advancing the motor is for
>> and if any motor can be
>> advanced or only some? Not all of my information is
>> here yet so I am doing
>> this slowly. I have the ability but I do need to go
>> through the learning
>> curve. I did that with my VW TDI.
>>
>> www.inertext.homeunix.com/newlife
>>
>> That is the photo album of my TDI.
>>
>> I am thinking of zilla for my controller but some
>> have said it's a 6 month
>> wait. Yuck!. Ok, what about curtis or Alltrack? Or ?
>> Is there more?
>>
>> What about chargers? I do plan on Optima Yellow
>> tops. Price is not an issue.
>>
>> I know it's alot but I need the info.
>>
>> Thanks a bunch
>> Pete
>
>
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Discussion Starter #11
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

I was curious if anyone if there is such a critter as a universal Baldor type motor. A chap says
he has a 5 h.p. 230v 33 amp. That has a commutator and he thought 4 brushes. 1725 rpm though suggests that this is like an a.c. induction motor. The plate didn't say anything about what kind it was though it came off of a silo unloader. Thanks eboy
I.m.o. The futures electric.
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Discussion Starter #12
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

Lots of EVs on the road with Baldor motors.

If the motor has brushes and a commutator (as opposed to maybe slip rings)
then it will run on DC.
Heck, skill saws, drills and most vacuum cleaners will run on DC.

> I was curious if anyone if there is such a critter as a universal Baldor
> type motor. A chap says
> he has a 5 h.p. 230v 33 amp. That has a commutator and he thought 4
> brushes. 1725 rpm though suggests that this is like an a.c. induction
> motor. The plate didn't say anything about what kind it was though it came
> off of a silo unloader. Thanks eboy
> I.m.o. The futures electric.
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Discussion Starter #14
Re: [EVDL] Baldor Motor

Here's on on ebay
150206391866

They probably wind it to run at a similar speed to an induction motor
so that it can be easily used in existing machines designed for
induction motors. Just a guess.





Robin <[email protected]> wrote:
> I was curious if anyone if there is such a critter as a universal Baldor type motor. A chap says
> he has a 5 h.p. 230v 33 amp. That has a commutator and he thought 4 brushes. 1725 rpm though suggests that this is like an a.c. induction motor. The plate didn't say anything about what kind it was though it came off of a silo unloader. Thanks eboy
> I.m.o. The futures electric.
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