Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?

Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?

Hi Jerry,

I agree, I think the EVette could go 30mph on less than 30amps, but still I doubt the average conversion can go 30mph at 30amps. I took the EVette to Moroso before BBB, not much there for electric cars. I live about 50mi. from Moroso in Okeechobee. I`m thinking of starting my own competition in front of my home, city street laws only. No driving on the wrong side of the road, no backing up except to turn, no driving on the shoulder of the road, no pealing rubber. The idea would be to stay within 20 feet of the EVette going the same direction, if you win I`ll buy lunch, if I win you buy. None of my friends that know the car would try it. Call first.

Tom Sines

-----Original Message-----
>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>Sent: Oct 17, 2007 6:04 PM
>To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>
>
> Hi Tom and All,
> Glad to hear it's running better and
>handles well. I'd have to say though 120wthr/mile isn't very
>good for 30 mph in your size vehicle.
> So we can expect you at next yrs BBB for a
>run down the autocross course and range contest?
> For those planning vacations the BBB in
>late Jan around Palm Beach and a good reason to get out of
>the cold north.
> Jerry Dycus
>
>----- Original Message Follows -----
>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette amps
>Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:13:14 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>>Sent: Oct 17, 2007 3:25 PM
>>>To: ev list <[email protected]>
>>>Subject: [EVDL] Electric EVette amps
>>>
>>>Hi Everyone,
>>>Latest test, 30amps at 30mph, 120vdc, now thats more like
>>it. Got new batteries, big difference. I`ve noticed some
>>of you are a little afraid of the EVette, well don`t worry,
>>nobody is going to make you ride in it. Did I mention, its
>>possible to drive the EVette,by computer. It seems to me,
>>>that would be a programmer`s dream!
>>>Tom Sines
>>>
>>>________________________________________
>>>PeoplePC Online
>>>A better way to Internet
>>>http://www.peoplepc.com
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>For subscription options, see
>>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>________________________________________
>>PeoplePC Online
>>A better way to Internet
>>http://www.peoplepc.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>For subscription options, see
>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?

Hi Tom and All,

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:14:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

>Hi Jerry,
>
>I agree, I think the EVette could go 30mph on less than
>30amps, but still I doubt the average conversion can go
>30mph at 30amps.

But yours nor mine are conversions but built from
scratch EV's thus have a large eff advantage over lead mine
conversion type EV's. Mine should be in the 60wthr/mile at
30 mph. Since yours is similar weight, about 1400lbs, size,
that's what you should be aiming for. And there are
conversions that also get about that, namely John Bryan's
Ghia EV, much better than your consumption at that speed.
Though switching to LLR tire should help you a fair amount.


I took the EVette to Moroso before BBB,
>not much there for electric cars.

I've wondered about why? I've heard about you for
several yrs but never heard an independent test of the
Evette. Why not?
The BBB with it's timed auto-cross course is an
excellent place for you to show what it can do in front of
EV'ers. Spinning in place is a cool trick but it's handling,
stability in traffic that counts if it's to be more than a
toy. If it can keep up with the faster EV's on the course
would prove how good the Evette is. No?

I live about 50mi. from
>Moroso in Okeechobee. I`m thinking of starting my own
>competition in front of my home, city street laws only. No
>driving on the wrong side of the road, no backing up except
>to turn, no driving on the shoulder of the road, no pealing
>rubber. The idea would be to stay within 20 feet of the
>EVette going the same direction, if you win I`ll buy lunch,
>if I win you buy. None of my friends that know the car
>would try it. Call first.

That's a rigged test as you know it is where as the
Auto-cross course is a realistic one.
Another interesting test is at long range at 70mph on
the interstate, at least for you as that's what mine is
built for along with economical commuting, crash protection
and excellent handling.
So let's bet lunch on who wins the Auto-cross between
us?

Jerry Dycus
>
>Tom Sines
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jerryd <[email protected]x>
>>Electric EVette at BBB?
>>
>> Hi Tom and All,
>> Glad to hear it's running better and
>>handles well. I'd have to say though 120wthr/mile isn't
>>very good for 30 mph in your size vehicle.
>> So we can expect you at next yrs BBB for
>>a run down the autocross course and range contest?
>> For those planning vacations the BBB in
>>late Jan around Palm Beach and a good reason to get out of
>>the cold north.
>> Jerry Dycus
>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>>>Hi Everyone,
>>>>Latest test, 30amps at 30mph, 120vdc, now thats more
>>>like it. Got new batteries, big difference. I`ve
>>>noticed some of you are a little afraid of the EVette,
>>>well don`t worry, nobody is going to make you ride in it.
>>> Did I mention, its possible to drive the EVette,by
>>>>computer. It seems to me, that would be a programmer`s
>>>>dream! Tom Sines

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?

Hi Jerry,

Your absolutely right, it is rigged, for people who drive in the CITY, and that is pretty much everybody. I guess what your saying is you know you`ll lose so you would like to change the bet. Well, I really don`t feel like playing around in the dirt with the EVETTE its to pretty, however I`m building a secondary prototype for just that purpose.

Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>Sent: Oct 18, 2007 5:10 PM
>To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>
>
> Hi Tom and All,
>
>----- Original Message Follows -----
>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:14:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>
>>Hi Jerry,
>>
>>I agree, I think the EVette could go 30mph on less than
>>30amps, but still I doubt the average conversion can go
>>30mph at 30amps.
>
> But yours nor mine are conversions but built from
>scratch EV's thus have a large eff advantage over lead mine
>conversion type EV's. Mine should be in the 60wthr/mile at
>30 mph. Since yours is similar weight, about 1400lbs, size,
>that's what you should be aiming for. And there are
>conversions that also get about that, namely John Bryan's
>Ghia EV, much better than your consumption at that speed.
>Though switching to LLR tire should help you a fair amount.
>
>
> I took the EVette to Moroso before BBB,
>>not much there for electric cars.
>
> I've wondered about why? I've heard about you for
>several yrs but never heard an independent test of the
>Evette. Why not?
> The BBB with it's timed auto-cross course is an
>excellent place for you to show what it can do in front of
>EV'ers. Spinning in place is a cool trick but it's handling,
>stability in traffic that counts if it's to be more than a
>toy. If it can keep up with the faster EV's on the course
>would prove how good the Evette is. No?
>
>I live about 50mi. from
>>Moroso in Okeechobee. I`m thinking of starting my own
>>competition in front of my home, city street laws only. No
>>driving on the wrong side of the road, no backing up except
>>to turn, no driving on the shoulder of the road, no pealing
>>rubber. The idea would be to stay within 20 feet of the
>>EVette going the same direction, if you win I`ll buy lunch,
>>if I win you buy. None of my friends that know the car
>>would try it. Call first.
>
> That's a rigged test as you know it is where as the
>Auto-cross course is a realistic one.
> Another interesting test is at long range at 70mph on
>the interstate, at least for you as that's what mine is
>built for along with economical commuting, crash protection
>and excellent handling.
> So let's bet lunch on who wins the Auto-cross between
>us?
>
> Jerry Dycus
>>
>>Tom Sines
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>>>Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>
>>> Hi Tom and All,
>>> Glad to hear it's running better and
>>>handles well. I'd have to say though 120wthr/mile isn't
>>>very good for 30 mph in your size vehicle.
>>> So we can expect you at next yrs BBB for
>>>a run down the autocross course and range contest?
>>> For those planning vacations the BBB in
>>>late Jan around Palm Beach and a good reason to get out of
>>>the cold north.
>>> Jerry Dycus
>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>>>>Hi Everyone,
>>>>>Latest test, 30amps at 30mph, 120vdc, now thats more
>>>>like it. Got new batteries, big difference. I`ve
>>>>noticed some of you are a little afraid of the EVette,
>>>>well don`t worry, nobody is going to make you ride in it.
>>>> Did I mention, its possible to drive the EVette,by
>>>>>computer. It seems to me, that would be a programmer`s
>>>>>dream! Tom Sines
>


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http://www.peoplepc.com

_______________________________________________
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Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?

Hi Tom and All,

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:38:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

>Hi Jerry,
>
>Your absolutely right, it is rigged, for people who drive
>in the CITY,

People drive to get somewhere which means they
rarely need to spin in circles!! If one does spin 180 it
would be facing the wrong direction so your great
manuverability is really a problem on the road, not an
asset.
An Auto-cross is an accepted way to judge a cars
handling yet you seem to be scared of it missing at least 3
chances to show it at the BBB's before.

and that is pretty much everybody. I guess
>what your saying is you know you`ll lose so you would like
>to change the bet.

What it means is I'm not a fool doing a useless
test. It's rather hard to win when you are just allowed to
follow. How about you follow me on a normal 20 mile commute
route or better, an 80 mile Freeway route or better the
range test at the BBB?
Of course you are afraid of actually having the
Evette really tested judging by your actions in the past
avoiding them.


Well, I really don`t feel like playing
>around in the dirt with the EVETTE its to pretty, however

Translation, above 30 mph it gets really hairy.

Jerry Dycus



>I`m building a secondary prototype for just that purpose.
>
>Tom Sines
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>>Sent: Oct 18, 2007 5:10 PM
>>To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle
>>Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL]
>>Electric EVette at BBB?
>>
>> Hi Tom and All,
>>
>>----- Original Message Follows -----
>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:14:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>>
>>>Hi Jerry,
>>>
>>>I agree, I think the EVette could go 30mph on less than
>>>30amps, but still I doubt the average conversion can go
>>>30mph at 30amps.
>>
>> But yours nor mine are conversions but built from
>>scratch EV's thus have a large eff advantage over lead
>>mine conversion type EV's. Mine should be in the
>>60wthr/mile at 30 mph. Since yours is similar weight,
>>about 1400lbs, size, that's what you should be aiming for.
>>And there are conversions that also get about that, namely
>>John Bryan's Ghia EV, much better than your consumption at
>>that speed. Though switching to LLR tire should help you a
>>fair amount.
>>
>> I took the EVette to Moroso before BBB,
>>>not much there for electric cars.
>>
>> I've wondered about why? I've heard about you for
>>several yrs but never heard an independent test of the
>>Evette. Why not?
>> The BBB with it's timed auto-cross course is an
>>excellent place for you to show what it can do in front of
>>EV'ers. Spinning in place is a cool trick but it's
>>handling, stability in traffic that counts if it's to be
>>more than a toy. If it can keep up with the faster EV's on
>>the course would prove how good the Evette is. No?
>>
>>I live about 50mi. from
>>>Moroso in Okeechobee. I`m thinking of starting my own
>>>competition in front of my home, city street laws only.
>>>No driving on the wrong side of the road, no backing up
>>>except to turn, no driving on the shoulder of the road,
>>>no pealing rubber. The idea would be to stay within 20
>>>feet of the EVette going the same direction, if you win
>>>I`ll buy lunch, if I win you buy. None of my friends
>>>that know the car would try it. Call first.
>>
>> That's a rigged test as you know it is where as the
>>Auto-cross course is a realistic one.
>> Another interesting test is at long range at 70mph
>>on the interstate, at least for you as that's what mine is
>>built for along with economical commuting, crash
>>protection and excellent handling.
>> So let's bet lunch on who wins the Auto-cross
>>between us?
>>
>> Jerry Dycus
>>>
>>>Tom Sines
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>>>>Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>>
>>>> Hi Tom and All,
>>>> Glad to hear it's running better and
>>>>handles well. I'd have to say though 120wthr/mile isn't
>>>>very good for 30 mph in your size vehicle.
>>>> So we can expect you at next yrs BBB
>>>>for a run down the autocross course and range contest?
>>>> For those planning vacations the BBB
>>>>in late Jan around Palm Beach and a good reason to get
>>>>out of the cold north.
>>>> Jerry Dycus
>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>>>>>Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>Latest test, 30amps at 30mph, 120vdc, now thats more
>>>>>like it. Got new batteries, big difference. I`ve
>>>>>noticed some of you are a little afraid of the EVette,
>>>>>well don`t worry, nobody is going to make you ride in
>>>>> it. Did I mention, its possible to drive the EVette,by
>>>>>>computer. It seems to me, that would be a
>>>>>>programmer`s dream! Tom Sines
>>
>
>
>________________________________________
>PeoplePC Online
>A better way to Internet
>http://www.peoplepc.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

_______________________________________________
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Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?

Hi Jerry,

Its more like I won`t and you can`t. Let me explain in more detail, Putting batteries in conventional car will never make it. You need to make the car fit the batteries, not make the batteries fit the car. The EVette can hold up to 40 batteries(although I don`t have that many in the car at this time), an electric conversion can hold about 26 batteries. Next, its about less amps, and more distance, here again, the EVette uses about 30amps at 30mph, and I`m sure I can trim it a little more. Next its about power, the EVette has two motors twice the power. next its about extreme maneuverability, hence my challange. I`m building a secondary prototype at this time, if I can get a sponsor, I would like to put two 11` motors, and two 2k Zillas in the car, at that time I would be more than happy to play in the dirt with you. Make no mistake, this is a one of a kind invention.

Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>Sent: Oct 20, 2007 8:55 PM
>To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>
>
> Hi Tom and All,
>
>----- Original Message Follows -----
>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:38:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>
>>Hi Jerry,
>>
>>Your absolutely right, it is rigged, for people who drive
>>in the CITY,
>
> People drive to get somewhere which means they
>rarely need to spin in circles!! If one does spin 180 it
>would be facing the wrong direction so your great
>manuverability is really a problem on the road, not an
>asset.
> An Auto-cross is an accepted way to judge a cars
>handling yet you seem to be scared of it missing at least 3
>chances to show it at the BBB's before.
>
> and that is pretty much everybody. I guess
>>what your saying is you know you`ll lose so you would like
>>to change the bet.
>
> What it means is I'm not a fool doing a useless
>test. It's rather hard to win when you are just allowed to
>follow. How about you follow me on a normal 20 mile commute
>route or better, an 80 mile Freeway route or better the
>range test at the BBB?
> Of course you are afraid of actually having the
>Evette really tested judging by your actions in the past
>avoiding them.
>
>
> Well, I really don`t feel like playing
>>around in the dirt with the EVETTE its to pretty, however
>
> Translation, above 30 mph it gets really hairy.
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
>>I`m building a secondary prototype for just that purpose.
>>
>>Tom Sines
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>>>Sent: Oct 18, 2007 5:10 PM
>>>To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle
>>>Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL]
>>>Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>
>>> Hi Tom and All,
>>>
>>>----- Original Message Follows -----
>>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>>To: [email protected]
>>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:14:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>>>
>>>>Hi Jerry,
>>>>
>>>>I agree, I think the EVette could go 30mph on less than
>>>>30amps, but still I doubt the average conversion can go
>>>>30mph at 30amps.
>>>
>>> But yours nor mine are conversions but built from
>>>scratch EV's thus have a large eff advantage over lead
>>>mine conversion type EV's. Mine should be in the
>>>60wthr/mile at 30 mph. Since yours is similar weight,
>>>about 1400lbs, size, that's what you should be aiming for.
>>>And there are conversions that also get about that, namely
>>>John Bryan's Ghia EV, much better than your consumption at
>>>that speed. Though switching to LLR tire should help you a
>>>fair amount.
>>>
>>> I took the EVette to Moroso before BBB,
>>>>not much there for electric cars.
>>>
>>> I've wondered about why? I've heard about you for
>>>several yrs but never heard an independent test of the
>>>Evette. Why not?
>>> The BBB with it's timed auto-cross course is an
>>>excellent place for you to show what it can do in front of
>>>EV'ers. Spinning in place is a cool trick but it's
>>>handling, stability in traffic that counts if it's to be
>>>more than a toy. If it can keep up with the faster EV's on
>>>the course would prove how good the Evette is. No?
>>>
>>>I live about 50mi. from
>>>>Moroso in Okeechobee. I`m thinking of starting my own
>>>>competition in front of my home, city street laws only.
>>>>No driving on the wrong side of the road, no backing up
>>>>except to turn, no driving on the shoulder of the road,
>>>>no pealing rubber. The idea would be to stay within 20
>>>>feet of the EVette going the same direction, if you win
>>>>I`ll buy lunch, if I win you buy. None of my friends
>>>>that know the car would try it. Call first.
>>>
>>> That's a rigged test as you know it is where as the
>>>Auto-cross course is a realistic one.
>>> Another interesting test is at long range at 70mph
>>>on the interstate, at least for you as that's what mine is
>>>built for along with economical commuting, crash
>>>protection and excellent handling.
>>> So let's bet lunch on who wins the Auto-cross
>>>between us?
>>>
>>> Jerry Dycus
>>>>
>>>>Tom Sines
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>>>>>Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Tom and All,
>>>>> Glad to hear it's running better and
>>>>>handles well. I'd have to say though 120wthr/mile isn't
>>>>>very good for 30 mph in your size vehicle.
>>>>> So we can expect you at next yrs BBB
>>>>>for a run down the autocross course and range contest?
>>>>> For those planning vacations the BBB
>>>>>in late Jan around Palm Beach and a good reason to get
>>>>>out of the cold north.
>>>>> Jerry Dycus
>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>Latest test, 30amps at 30mph, 120vdc, now thats more
>>>>>>like it. Got new batteries, big difference. I`ve
>>>>>>noticed some of you are a little afraid of the EVette,
>>>>>>well don`t worry, nobody is going to make you ride in
>>>>>> it. Did I mention, its possible to drive the EVette,by
>>>>>>>computer. It seems to me, that would be a
>>>>>>>programmer`s dream! Tom Sines
>>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________________
>>PeoplePC Online
>>A better way to Internet
>>http://www.peoplepc.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>For subscription options, see
>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


________________________________________
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http://www.peoplepc.com

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Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?

Hi Doug,

I understand what your saying, however even an autocross doesn`t showcase the extreme maneuverability of the EVette. There is a new game in town, one that I think is much more relevant to real driving, besides I`m having to much fun rattling cages. Really, the only thing that matters is to bring good useful electric cars to America, at a price the average person can aford.
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: Doug Weathers <[email protected]>
>Sent: Oct 21, 2007 6:42 PM
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>
>
>

jerryd wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Tom and All,
>>
>> ----- Original Message Follows -----
>> From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:38:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>
><snip>
>
>>> Well, I really don`t feel like playing
>>> around in the dirt with the EVETTE its to pretty, however
>>
>> Translation, above 30 mph it gets really hairy.
>>
>> Jerry Dycus
>
>How about this translation: maybe Tom doesn't know what an autocross
>event is, and thinks it's something like motocross, which explains the
>comment about the dirt.
>
>Autocross events are held on flat paved parking lots. A twisty course
>is marked out with traffic cones and people compete to see who can
>drive their car through the course the fastest. Dirt is not involved.
>It's safe - distances are short and speeds are low; a run can take less
>than a minute and you're all alone on the course. A respectable
>performance at an autocross event would do a lot to quiet the Evette's
>skeptics.
>
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocross>
>
>Motocross is a motorcycle sport, played outdoors in the mud. Or
>sometimes indoors in the mud. Completely inappropriate for most
>four-wheeled vehicles. And dirt is definitely involved.
>
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motocross>
>--
>Doug Weathers
>Las Cruces, NM, USA
>http://www.gdunge.com/
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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Click to expand...

Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?

I have tried to stay out of this discussion because I believe most of it is
a fairy tale. But I beg to differ with you, Tom, on your description of
what an Autocross is. I have a Porsche 944 that I have driven in several
different autocrosses and the main reason for the autocross is to showcase
your cars handling and maneuverability. It also showcases the driver's
ability to drive the car through the many different gates. Now my 944 can
not spin around in circles but it does do a fair job in an autocross and I
have even driven the 944 at a local motor sport park that is 2 and 1/8 miles
long with 14 different turns. I really enjoyed doing both of these types of
events. If I had your vehicle and I was as sure of it as you sound then I
would be proud to enter that EVette in as many autocrosses and other similar
venues that would showcase the ability of my vehicle. I do not understand
your hesitation to enter your vehicle in whatever type of event that would
showcase its abilities unless all of this stuff that we have been hearing
lately is just so much smoke. I also believe that by entering your EVette
in these events you would only enhance your position and it would show
people like me that you truly do have a very unique vehicle and that it will
do everything that you said that it will do.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Thanks, Freddie

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/899
http://www.southernev.com/dakotaev.htm






-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Tom S.
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 9:20 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?

Hi Doug,

I understand what your saying, however even an autocross doesn`t showcase
the extreme maneuverability of the EVette. There is a new game in town,
one that I think is much more relevant to real driving, besides I`m having
to much fun rattling cages. Really, the only thing that matters is to bring
good useful electric cars to America, at a price the average person can
aford.
Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: Doug Weathers <[email protected]>
>Sent: Oct 21, 2007 6:42 PM
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>
>
>

jerryd wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Tom and All,
>>
>> ----- Original Message Follows -----
>> From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:38:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>
><snip>
>
>>> Well, I really don`t feel like playing
>>> around in the dirt with the EVETTE its to pretty, however
>>
>> Translation, above 30 mph it gets really hairy.
>>
>> Jerry Dycus
>
>How about this translation: maybe Tom doesn't know what an autocross
>event is, and thinks it's something like motocross, which explains the
>comment about the dirt.
>
>Autocross events are held on flat paved parking lots. A twisty course
>is marked out with traffic cones and people compete to see who can
>drive their car through the course the fastest. Dirt is not involved.
>It's safe - distances are short and speeds are low; a run can take less
>than a minute and you're all alone on the course. A respectable
>performance at an autocross event would do a lot to quiet the Evette's
>skeptics.
>
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocross>
>
>Motocross is a motorcycle sport, played outdoors in the mud. Or
>sometimes indoors in the mud. Completely inappropriate for most
>four-wheeled vehicles. And dirt is definitely involved.
>
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motocross>
>--
>Doug Weathers
>Las Cruces, NM, USA
>http://www.gdunge.com/
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


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Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?

Hi Tom and All,

----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
To: [email protected], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:53:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

>Hi Jerry,
>
>Its more like I won`t and you can`t.

Translation, I'm scare for someone to drive it or
drive it faster than 30 mph.


Let me explain in
>more detail, Putting batteries in conventional car will
>never make it. You need to make the car fit the batteries,
>not make the batteries fit the car.

And what does that have to do with handling? Nice
changing the subject. Building as an EV has little to do
with your problems. Ending up crashing into oncoming
traffic, lightpole, tree is.



The EVette can hold up
>to 40 batteries(although I don`t have that many in the car
>at this time), an electric conversion can hold about 26
>batteries.

Mine will only use 12 to get 100+ mile range. Why
does yours need so many?


Next, its about less amps, and more distance,
>here again, the EVette uses about 30amps at 30mph, and I`m
>sure I can trim it a little more.

First it's about drag the EVette has too much of. But
if you have to fight it to drive a straight line so I guess
you don't need much range anyway. The Sunrise EV 4 passenger
gets 100whrs/mile at speed. I'd bet if you can actually get
to 70 mph safely, would easily take 250-350wthrs/mile due to
such bad aero.



Next its about power,
>the EVette has two motors twice the power. next its about
>extreme maneuverability, hence my challange. I`m building
>a secondary prototype at this time, if I can get a sponsor,
>I would like to put two 11` motors, and two 2k Zillas in
>the car, at that time I would be more than happy to play in
>the dirt with you. Make no mistake, this is a one of a
>kind invention.

Extreme maneuverability is not an asset!! And more
power won't help but hurt instead.
Your lack, refusal of independent testing shows you are
scared of it as it would show how bad the EVette really is.
You say you want to make EV's, how about making one
that will actualy sell. Your present chassis could be redone
into a Dymaxion style as another poster mentioned, aero,
light, maneuverable but still tractable at speeds. Or one
like mine, the best 3wh style in many ways especially
safety. And have an excellent EV that would sell well I
believe. I'd be happy to help with a new design for free as
I want good EV's out there and you might be someone who
could build them if you get a better design.
But yours, if one of many things from brakes, belts,
motors, controllers, pot boxes, contactors, ect fail at
speed, you crash which is not good for anyone.
This is my last post on this. Be at the BBB for a real
test or we know you are just hot air and your EV is a 1
trick pony.
Jerry Dycus

>
>Tom Sines
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>>Sent: Oct 20, 2007 8:55 PM
>>To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle
>>Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL]
>>Electric EVette at BBB?
>>
>> Hi Tom and All,
>>
>>----- Original Message Follows -----
>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>>Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:38:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>>
>>>Hi Jerry,
>>>
>>>Your absolutely right, it is rigged, for people who drive
>>>in the CITY,
>>
>> People drive to get somewhere which means they
>>rarely need to spin in circles!! If one does spin 180 it
>>would be facing the wrong direction so your great
>>manuverability is really a problem on the road, not an
>>asset.
>> An Auto-cross is an accepted way to judge a cars
>>handling yet you seem to be scared of it missing at least
>>3 chances to show it at the BBB's before.
>>
>> and that is pretty much everybody. I guess
>>>what your saying is you know you`ll lose so you would
>>>like to change the bet.
>>
>> What it means is I'm not a fool doing a useless
>>test. It's rather hard to win when you are just allowed to
>>follow. How about you follow me on a normal 20 mile
>>commute route or better, an 80 mile Freeway route or
>>better the range test at the BBB?
>> Of course you are afraid of actually having the
>>Evette really tested judging by your actions in the past
>>avoiding them.
>>
>>
>> Well, I really don`t feel like playing
>>>around in the dirt with the EVETTE its to pretty, however
>>
>> Translation, above 30 mph it gets really hairy.
>>
>> Jerry Dycus
>>
>>
>>
>>>I`m building a secondary prototype for just that purpose.
>>>
>>>Tom Sines
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>>>>Sent: Oct 18, 2007 5:10 PM
>>>>To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric
>>>>Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re:
>>>>[EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>>
>>>> Hi Tom and All,
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message Follows -----
>>>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>>>To: [email protected]
>>>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:14:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>>>>
>>>>>Hi Jerry,
>>>>>
>>>>>I agree, I think the EVette could go 30mph on less than
>>>>>30amps, but still I doubt the average conversion can go
>>>>>30mph at 30amps.
>>>>
>>>> But yours nor mine are conversions but built from
>>>>scratch EV's thus have a large eff advantage over lead
>>>>mine conversion type EV's. Mine should be in the
>>>>60wthr/mile at 30 mph. Since yours is similar weight,
>>>>about 1400lbs, size, that's what you should be aiming
>>>>for. And there are conversions that also get about that,
>>>>namely John Bryan's Ghia EV, much better than your
>>>>consumption at that speed. Though switching to LLR tire
>>>>should help you a fair amount.
>>>>
>>>> I took the EVette to Moroso before BBB,
>>>>>not much there for electric cars.
>>>>
>>>> I've wondered about why? I've heard about you
>>>>for several yrs but never heard an independent test of
>>>>the Evette. Why not?
>>>> The BBB with it's timed auto-cross course is an
>>>>excellent place for you to show what it can do in front
>>>>of EV'ers. Spinning in place is a cool trick but it's
>>>>handling, stability in traffic that counts if it's to be
>>>>more than a toy. If it can keep up with the faster EV's
>>>>on the course would prove how good the Evette is. No?
>>>>
>>>>I live about 50mi. from
>>>>>Moroso in Okeechobee. I`m thinking of starting my own
>>>>>competition in front of my home, city street laws only.
>>>>>No driving on the wrong side of the road, no backing up
>>>>>except to turn, no driving on the shoulder of the road,
>>>>>no pealing rubber. The idea would be to stay within 20
>>>>>feet of the EVette going the same direction, if you win
>>>>>I`ll buy lunch, if I win you buy. None of my friends
>>>>>that know the car would try it. Call first.
>>>>
>>>> That's a rigged test as you know it is where as
>>>>the Auto-cross course is a realistic one.
>>>> Another interesting test is at long range at 70mph
>>>>on the interstate, at least for you as that's what mine
>>>>is built for along with economical commuting, crash
>>>>protection and excellent handling.
>>>> So let's bet lunch on who wins the Auto-cross
>>>>between us?
>>>>
>>>> Jerry Dycus
>>>>>
>>>>>Tom Sines
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>>>>>>Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Tom and All,
>>>>>> Glad to hear it's running better and
>>>>>>handles well. I'd have to say though 120wthr/mile
>>>>>>isn't very good for 30 mph in your size vehicle.
>>>>>> So we can expect you at next yrs BBB
>>>>>>for a run down the autocross course and range contest?
>>>>>> For those planning vacations the BBB
>>>>>>in late Jan around Palm Beach and a good reason to get
>>>>>>out of the cold north.
>>>>>> Jerry Dycus
>>>>>
>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>>Latest test, 30amps at 30mph, 120vdc, now thats more
>>>>>>>like it. Got new batteries, big difference. I`ve
>>>>>>>noticed some of you are a little afraid of the EVette
>>>>>>>, well don`t worry, nobody is going to make you ride
>>>>>>> in it. Did I mention, its possible to drive the
>>>>>>>>EVette,by computer. It seems to me, that would be a
>>>>>>>>programmer`s dream! Tom Sines
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________________
>>>PeoplePC Online
>>>A better way to Internet
>>>http://www.peoplepc.com
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>For subscription options, see
>>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>For subscription options, see
>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>________________________________________
>PeoplePC Online
>A better way to Internet
>http://www.peoplepc.com

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
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Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?

Hi Jerry,

I hope I didn`t upset you to much, however we simply disagree, but thanks for being an adversary, it gives me a chance to make my case. For those of you who would like to see the "EVette" the car will be on display in Orlando at the convention center for the Green Earth Expo, In May.

Tom Sines
-----Original Message-----
>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>Sent: Oct 22, 2007 9:11 PM
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>
>
> Hi Tom and All,
>
>----- Original Message Follows -----
>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected], Electric Vehicle Discussion List
><[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:53:08 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>
>>Hi Jerry,
>>
>>Its more like I won`t and you can`t.
>
> Translation, I'm scare for someone to drive it or
>drive it faster than 30 mph.
>
>
> Let me explain in
>>more detail, Putting batteries in conventional car will
>>never make it. You need to make the car fit the batteries,
>>not make the batteries fit the car.
>
> And what does that have to do with handling? Nice
>changing the subject. Building as an EV has little to do
>with your problems. Ending up crashing into oncoming
>traffic, lightpole, tree is.
>
>
>
> The EVette can hold up
>>to 40 batteries(although I don`t have that many in the car
>>at this time), an electric conversion can hold about 26
>>batteries.
>
> Mine will only use 12 to get 100+ mile range. Why
>does yours need so many?
>
>
> Next, its about less amps, and more distance,
>>here again, the EVette uses about 30amps at 30mph, and I`m
>>sure I can trim it a little more.
>
> First it's about drag the EVette has too much of. But
>if you have to fight it to drive a straight line so I guess
>you don't need much range anyway. The Sunrise EV 4 passenger
>gets 100whrs/mile at speed. I'd bet if you can actually get
>to 70 mph safely, would easily take 250-350wthrs/mile due to
>such bad aero.
>
>
>
> Next its about power,
>>the EVette has two motors twice the power. next its about
>>extreme maneuverability, hence my challange. I`m building
>>a secondary prototype at this time, if I can get a sponsor,
>>I would like to put two 11` motors, and two 2k Zillas in
>>the car, at that time I would be more than happy to play in
>>the dirt with you. Make no mistake, this is a one of a
>>kind invention.
>
> Extreme maneuverability is not an asset!! And more
>power won't help but hurt instead.
> Your lack, refusal of independent testing shows you are
>scared of it as it would show how bad the EVette really is.
> You say you want to make EV's, how about making one
>that will actualy sell. Your present chassis could be redone
>into a Dymaxion style as another poster mentioned, aero,
>light, maneuverable but still tractable at speeds. Or one
>like mine, the best 3wh style in many ways especially
>safety. And have an excellent EV that would sell well I
>believe. I'd be happy to help with a new design for free as
>I want good EV's out there and you might be someone who
>could build them if you get a better design.
> But yours, if one of many things from brakes, belts,
>motors, controllers, pot boxes, contactors, ect fail at
>speed, you crash which is not good for anyone.
> This is my last post on this. Be at the BBB for a real
>test or we know you are just hot air and your EV is a 1
>trick pony.
> Jerry Dycus
>
>>
>>Tom Sines
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>>>Sent: Oct 20, 2007 8:55 PM
>>>To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle
>>>Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL]
>>>Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>
>>> Hi Tom and All,
>>>
>>>----- Original Message Follows -----
>>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>>To: [email protected]
>>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 06:38:42 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>>>
>>>>Hi Jerry,
>>>>
>>>>Your absolutely right, it is rigged, for people who drive
>>>>in the CITY,
>>>
>>> People drive to get somewhere which means they
>>>rarely need to spin in circles!! If one does spin 180 it
>>>would be facing the wrong direction so your great
>>>manuverability is really a problem on the road, not an
>>>asset.
>>> An Auto-cross is an accepted way to judge a cars
>>>handling yet you seem to be scared of it missing at least
>>>3 chances to show it at the BBB's before.
>>>
>>> and that is pretty much everybody. I guess
>>>>what your saying is you know you`ll lose so you would
>>>>like to change the bet.
>>>
>>> What it means is I'm not a fool doing a useless
>>>test. It's rather hard to win when you are just allowed to
>>>follow. How about you follow me on a normal 20 mile
>>>commute route or better, an 80 mile Freeway route or
>>>better the range test at the BBB?
>>> Of course you are afraid of actually having the
>>>Evette really tested judging by your actions in the past
>>>avoiding them.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I really don`t feel like playing
>>>>around in the dirt with the EVETTE its to pretty, however
>>>
>>> Translation, above 30 mph it gets really hairy.
>>>
>>> Jerry Dycus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I`m building a secondary prototype for just that purpose.
>>>>
>>>>Tom Sines
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>>>>>Sent: Oct 18, 2007 5:10 PM
>>>>>To: "Tom S." <[email protected]>, Electric
>>>>>Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re:
>>>>>[EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Tom and All,
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message Follows -----
>>>>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>>>>To: [email protected]
>>>>>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>>>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:14:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Jerry,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I agree, I think the EVette could go 30mph on less than
>>>>>>30amps, but still I doubt the average conversion can go
>>>>>>30mph at 30amps.
>>>>>
>>>>> But yours nor mine are conversions but built from
>>>>>scratch EV's thus have a large eff advantage over lead
>>>>>mine conversion type EV's. Mine should be in the
>>>>>60wthr/mile at 30 mph. Since yours is similar weight,
>>>>>about 1400lbs, size, that's what you should be aiming
>>>>>for. And there are conversions that also get about that,
>>>>>namely John Bryan's Ghia EV, much better than your
>>>>>consumption at that speed. Though switching to LLR tire
>>>>>should help you a fair amount.
>>>>>
>>>>> I took the EVette to Moroso before BBB,
>>>>>>not much there for electric cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've wondered about why? I've heard about you
>>>>>for several yrs but never heard an independent test of
>>>>>the Evette. Why not?
>>>>> The BBB with it's timed auto-cross course is an
>>>>>excellent place for you to show what it can do in front
>>>>>of EV'ers. Spinning in place is a cool trick but it's
>>>>>handling, stability in traffic that counts if it's to be
>>>>>more than a toy. If it can keep up with the faster EV's
>>>>>on the course would prove how good the Evette is. No?
>>>>>
>>>>>I live about 50mi. from
>>>>>>Moroso in Okeechobee. I`m thinking of starting my own
>>>>>>competition in front of my home, city street laws only.
>>>>>>No driving on the wrong side of the road, no backing up
>>>>>>except to turn, no driving on the shoulder of the road,
>>>>>>no pealing rubber. The idea would be to stay within 20
>>>>>>feet of the EVette going the same direction, if you win
>>>>>>I`ll buy lunch, if I win you buy. None of my friends
>>>>>>that know the car would try it. Call first.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a rigged test as you know it is where as
>>>>>the Auto-cross course is a realistic one.
>>>>> Another interesting test is at long range at 70mph
>>>>>on the interstate, at least for you as that's what mine
>>>>>is built for along with economical commuting, crash
>>>>>protection and excellent handling.
>>>>> So let's bet lunch on who wins the Auto-cross
>>>>>between us?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jerry Dycus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Tom Sines
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>From: jerryd <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>Electric EVette at BBB?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Tom and All,
>>>>>>> Glad to hear it's running better and
>>>>>>>handles well. I'd have to say though 120wthr/mile
>>>>>>>isn't very good for 30 mph in your size vehicle.
>>>>>>> So we can expect you at next yrs BBB
>>>>>>>for a run down the autocross course and range contest?
>>>>>>> For those planning vacations the BBB
>>>>>>>in late Jan around Palm Beach and a good reason to get
>>>>>>>out of the cold north.
>>>>>>> Jerry Dycus
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>From: "Tom S." <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>>>Latest test, 30amps at 30mph, 120vdc, now thats more
>>>>>>>>like it. Got new batteries, big difference. I`ve
>>>>>>>>noticed some of you are a little afraid of the EVette
>>>>>>>>, well don`t worry, nobody is going to make you ride
>>>>>>>> in it. Did I mention, its possible to drive the
>>>>>>>>>EVette,by computer. It seems to me, that would be a
>>>>>>>>>programmer`s dream! Tom Sines
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________________
>>>>PeoplePC Online
>>>>A better way to Internet
>>>>http://www.peoplepc.com
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>For subscription options, see
>>>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>For subscription options, see
>>>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>>
>>________________________________________
>>PeoplePC Online
>>A better way to Internet
>>http://www.peoplepc.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev


________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev