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Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 1, Issue 53

After a night of pouring rain, I jumped into my '74 Beetle for a rainy
morning commute at 4 a.m.

The car ran fine yesterday before the rain. This morning I turned the key
and didn't get the tell-tale "donk" of the Albright contactor closing. It
did something because I pushed on the pedal and the motor -barely- spun with
the transmission in neutral.

The contactor is in the engine bay and as you probably know, VW Beetle
engine lid has ventilation gills so it's possible that rain got into it, but
there is a rainshield on the inside that does a pretty good job of keeping
water out of everything. I've driven during and after rains before without a
problem.

Is the contactor toast? If there was water across the cable posts would it
damage the contactor or would it just boil away? I read that these
contactors have "magnetic blowouts". Did they blowout?

It was 4 a.m. so it was dark and I didn't have a lot of time to fool with it
but I am positive that the controller was completely dry so I am 98% sure
that the contactor is the problem in some way. Either it's not getting a
good 12v to close the contacts of the contactor itself is jacked up somehow.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Rich A.
In EV withdrawl.


>From: [email protected]
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: EV Digest, Vol 1, Issue 53
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:24:52 -0700
>
>Send EV mailing list submissions to
> [email protected]
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> [email protected]
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
> [email protected]
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of EV digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. EV Controllers ([email protected])
> 2. Re: Anyone heard from the NEDRA Nationals? ([email protected])
> 3. Re: vacuum pump noise (Jack Murray)
> 4. Re: slightly OT: Hybrid wins 24 hour race (TrotFox Greyfoot)
> 5. Re: Zilla Engine Light Blinking (Mark Dutko)
> 6. Re: EV Controllers (Morgan LaMoore)
> 7. Re: Zilla Engine Light Blinking (Morgan LaMoore)
> 8. Re: Zilla Engine Light Blinking (Marty Hewes)
> 9. Re: TS warnings, Re: New HEV and EV (FRED JEANETTE MERTENS)
> 10. Re: vacuum pump noise (Roland Wiench)
> 11. Re: Anyone heard from the NEDRA Nationals? (Marty Hewes)
> 12. Re: H2 FS Record Ford (Tom Shay)
> 13. Re: another berlingo question (FRED JEANETTE MERTENS)
> 14. Re: Zilla Engine Light Blinking (Mark Dutko)
> 15. Re: Zilla Engine Light Blinking (Mark Dutko)
> 16. Re: Powdercoating corroding; arcing between batt. terminal
> and battery rack (JS)
> 17. Re: TS warnings, Re: New HEV and EV (Marty Hewes)
> 18. Re: Zilla Engine Light Blinking (Roland Wiench)
> 19. Re: [EV] Re: oops (Cor van de Water)
> 20. Re: Zilla Engine Light Blinking ([email protected])
> 21. Re: battery help (Jeff Shanab)
> 22. Re: battery help (Cor van de Water)
> 23. Re: H2 FS Record Ford (Jeff Shanab)
> 24. Re: Zilla Engine Light Blinking (Jeff Shanab)
> 25. Re: Anyone heard from the NEDRA Nationals? (David O'Neel)
> 26. Re: Zilla Engine Light Blinking (Mark Dutko)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:02:52 EDT
>From: [email protected]
>Subject: [EVDL] EV Controllers
>To: [email protected]
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>I've heard great things about the Zilla controllers but I understand they
>are both very costly and there is a long waiting list for them. I am an
>electronics engineer and would consider building my own controller. Are
>there
>plans any where? Is there a schematic for the Zillas avaiable?
>
>Thank you,
>
>Dave Delman
>1981 Electric DeLorean Project
>
>
>
>************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
>at
>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:33:23 +0000
>From: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone heard from the NEDRA Nationals?
>To: [email protected]
>Message-ID:
> <[email protected]>
>
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>I'll chime in.
>Speaking oly of Friday Night's NEDRA activities, it was quite a scene.
>Probably 2 dozen or more EV's at the races and at least 10 race EV's.
>The racing EV's that I saw Friday night (until about 10:30pm) included:
>* White Zombie (Wayland's 70's Datsun)
>* Orange Poppy (Otmar's 914)
>* Cobra EV
>* Dave Cloud's Geo
>* Rick Barnes' compact
>* Don Crabtree's FrankenDragon electric motorcycle
>
>Along with these there were other EV's present including:
>* Viktor Tikhonov's Honda CRX
>* Tim Kutscha's red 914
>* The 5' diam propeller powered land buggy (raced at Woodburn a number of
>years ago)
>* A couple of PHEV's
>* My 1921 Milburn Light Electric coupe
>* An electric Datsun pickup
>* Rod Wilde's Gone Postal van
>* Rich Rudman's Goldie(?)---didn't see it there but assumed it was there
>* I'm sure there were several others
>
>I didn't catch all the racing, but did see Tim Brehm take the White Zombie
>to a 12.2sec finish and later heard John Wayland come by saying that in
>another run the Zombie and its competitor both runed 12.0 somethings...
>
>I also saw the electric Cobra turn something like 12.2sec in its first run
>using what looked like an array of DeWalt lithium packs.
>
>I saw the aftermath of a run that Dave Cloud's car made---a situation that
>shut the track down for at least 30minutes and causing the loudest and
>fastest gas cars to have to quit racing for the evening.
>
>It was a lot of fun, with dozens of good EV folks talking EVs.
> >From the stands, the crowd was bigger than usual I thought.
>And the crowd went wild with every EV that raced...wild that is until the
>track shut down for a half hour...I saw many folks left the track during
>that time.
>
>I'm sure others can chime in with the details on all of this. And I
>guarantee there'll be stories.
>For me, it was a peaceful drive out to the track with my dad in an old
>timey car that predates his age by 11 years. It was the second drag race
>he'd ever been to...the first being 4 years before I was born.
>It was really neat quietly cruising the old electric jalopy the 12miles
>back home in the dark.
>
>-Myles Twete
>1921 Milburn Light Electric: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/348
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: Mike Willmon <[email protected]>
>
> > Here it is Sunday and I'm about to go into withdrawls.
> > Someone had to have raced ;-)
> > Hope nobody broke anything, except records.
> >
> > Mike,
> > Anchorage, Ak.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:35:14 -0700
>From: Jack Murray <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] vacuum pump noise
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>Frankly, the solution to the noise problem is to eliminate the vacuum
>booster and thus the pump. I just pulled it off my Fiero today, and the
>brake pedal assembly out of the car. It looks like I can get another
>50% pedal leverage.
>
>Does anyone know what force multiplier a brake booster provides?
> From the design it seems to be an on-off setup.
>I've tried to find the info on the web, no such luck as yet.
>
>Jack
>
>David Brandt wrote:
> > Actually, Roland, your pump is different than the ones most of us use.
>We typically use diaphragm pumps. These are reliable and sturdy, and do
>not technically require a separate check valve (though it is a good idea to
>include one) because there is a very high resistance to leak through due to
>the design of the pump. The reliability (and the fact they already make
>one in the right size that runs off of 12VDC) is probably why nobody has
>yet tried to make something better specifically for EV's. Even the one
>Victor offers is a diaphragm style, I believe (correct me if that is wrong,
>Victor).
> >
> > They make a lot of noise by the very design of the pump. It is
>unbalanced, as well as the fact it pumps that rubber diaphragm back and
>forth, and it also uses reed style valves that can add additional noise.
> >
> > In contrast to yours, the diaphragm style pump radiates its noise from
>two sources - the secondary source is the vibration it transmits through
>the supporting structure. The primary source is from the diaphragm and is
>transmitted out the exhaust, which is why filtering the exhaust does a
>decent job of silencing it.
> >
> > A vane style pump like yours, if functioning correctly, should make very
>little noise, but does require a separate check valve, as there is a large
>leak path even when the pump is new. It can draw down a vacuum very
>quickly, though.
> >
> > If it does make noise (and is functioning properly), it is likely due to
>the cam (liner) design allowing the blades to experience shock. The only
>way to ensure this does not happen is to cut a cam profile (specifically a
>cycloidal profile) into the interior of the liner. Most pumps typically
>just use a circle, though, because it is easier to make. The noise is
>acceptable, because a diesel engine will easily drown it out, even just
>idling!
> >
> > Personally, I'd be interested in the part number you are using, where to
>get them, and how quickly it draws down a vacuum. Are you running it off
>of your acessory drive system?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > David Brandt
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Roland Wiench <[email protected]>
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 7:06:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] vacuum pump noise
> >
> >
> > The noise in the vacuum pump is sometime cause by the check value in the
> > vacuum pump that pops open and close which is more noisy at lower in.hg.
> As
> > the vacuum builds up to above 15 in.hg. it should decrease in the noise
> > factor and when you get to about 18 in.hg. then there is hardly any
>noise at
> > all and at 22 in.hg., I can't here it.
> >
> > If you do not have a large enough canister that should have addition
>vacuum
> > check valves before and after the canister, plus addition check values
>for
> > each addition vacuum take off, the bleed down will be faster and you may
>not
> > get to the higher vacuum reading.
> >
> > Of course if you have a vacuum pump that only goes to 15 in.hg., then
>you
> > will always have some noise.
> >
> > I install a vacuum meter on this system, which I find that the noise is
> > greater at initial start up and it fades away when it gets above 18
>in.hg.
> >
> > I am using a GMC vacuum pump design for a diesel truck. It is a radial
>vane
> > type that will pull 22 in.hg. For some devices that required a lower
> > vacuum, than a GMC vacuum value can be added which adjusts the vacuum to
>any
> > setting as needed.
> >
> > Tubing will not work, because the through bolt still transmit the noise
>to
> > the chassis. Use rubber insert nuts on the vacuum pump which is then
> > mounted to a 1/4 inch thick aluminum plate, and then mount that aluminum
> > plate with rubber insert nuts to your mounting area. You can get these
> > rubber insert nuts from a hardware store.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dan Whitley" <[email protected]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 2:08 PM
> > Subject: [EVDL] vacuum pump noise
> >
> >
> >
> >>What is the best way to reduce the noise from the vacuum pump?
> >>Despite it having rubber washers to separate it from the wheel well
> >>it is quite noisy. The controller also has some noise that is
> >>probably normal, but with all the "quite" it is rather annoying!
> >>Thanks, Dan
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>For subscription options, see
> >>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
> >
>____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
>knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:43:08 -0400
>From: "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] slightly OT: Hybrid wins 24 hour race
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID:
> <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Errr... Massive motor on the rear is to accept massive amounts of
>current during acceleration? In my head the fronts would be of
>relatively little use during peak accel for traction.
>
>What kind of power bias do you guys use on the Imp for acceleration?
>
>Trot, the theoretical, fox...
>
>On 8/18/07, ProEV <[email protected]> wrote:
><<snip>>
> > The flaw in this theory is, 'why run such a massive rear motor?' It
>could be
> > the only unit they could find that would survive as part of the
>driveline.
> > Otherwise, could they be massivly biasing the friction brake system to
>the
> > front to balance the car? Or using some kind of computer control to mix
> > friction and regenerative braking?
>
>
>--
>| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
>| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
>| >\_/< [email protected] \ third alternative."
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:44:16 -0700
>From: Mark Dutko <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>That's what I was thinking- It should be over cooled I would think???
>
>Mark
>
David Brandt wrote:
>
> > That's the reply I got - of course it's over 100 here, and it
> > typically flashes towards the end of the hot afternoon drive, so I
> > can believe it's getting hot. It's hard to believe yours is...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > David Brandt
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Mark Dutko <[email protected]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:26:56 PM
> > Subject: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> >
> >
> > I drove my Yaris on the Freeway today and never pulled more than 60
> > battery amps, the engine light would blink every once and a while
> > after the first 5 miles or so. I have the Ev source cooling kit and a
> > fan blowing on the radiator. Is this a temp warning? It's less than
> > 70 outside and I thought I had the controller over cooled. It has
> > also blinked in the evening when it is under 60 outside and using the
> > controller harder.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > ______________
> > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
> > that gives answers, not web links.
> > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:54:40 -0500
>From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV Controllers
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID:
> <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Hi,
>
>You can't get a schematic for the Zilla's because it belongs to the
>designers and they will probably protect their intellectual property. They
>make a living selling their controller, so they probably don't want to give
>away the design. You could try asking them about it at their website,
>though. [http://www.cafeelectric.com/]
>
>I'm also looking at building my own controller. I was just going to design
>it myself; I was thinking of basing it on a half-bridge circuit with
>parallel'ed Mosfet's. IGBT's would be nice, but big ones are hundreds of
>dollars each and small ones don't parallel well.
>
>I just read a paper that described using a PWM controller in boost mode to
>provide regen for series-wound motors. One end of the motor is shorted to
>ground; the other end is controlled by a half-bridge of heavy-duty MOSFETs
>(with protective diodes in parallel). In normal operation, it acts as a
>normal chopper, with current from the battery through the high-side FET to
>the motor, and current coming through the low-side diode when the high-side
>switch is off.
>
>In regen operation, it uses the same half-bridge circuit as a boost
>converter, with the motor as the power supply and the batteries as a load.
>The motor has its back EMF that is your voltage source; it also has a
>resistance and the inductance of the field winding. When the low-side
>switch
>is on, the back EMF is connected to ground through the field inductance.
>The
>current is then increasing, storing energy in the field winding's magnetic
>field. Then, when the low-side switch turns off, current must continue to
>flow through the field winding. This causes a voltage spike in the motor
>voltage, sending it above the positive rail, where current flows through
>the
>high-side diode and into the battery.
>
>How does this circuit operation sound to you? I haven't done a full
>magnetic
>analysis of how DC series-wound motors work, but at the circuit level I
>think that it will regen properly. The only thing that could mess with its
>basic operation is if the back EMF reverses polarity when the current
>reverses polarity. I don't think that this would happen, but I am not sure.
>
>-Morgan LaMoore
>
>On 8/19/07, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > I've heard great things about the Zilla controllers but I understand
>they
> > are both very costly and there is a long waiting list for them. I am an
> > electronics engineer and would consider building my own
> > controller. Are there
> > plans any where? Is there a schematic for the Zillas avaiable?
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Dave Delman
> > 1981 Electric DeLorean Project
> >
> >
> >
> > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new
>AOL
> > at
> > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:57:36 -0500
>From: "Morgan LaMoore" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID:
> <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>If it's air-cooled, could it be dust in the heatsinks? My laptop was
>overheating recently (getting over 90 Celsius), and I found that a 1/4"
>layer of dust was blocking the heatsinks.
>
>I don't know if you want to take apart your controller to check that,
>though, it might void your warranty.
>
>-Morgan LaMoore
>
>On 8/19/07, Mark Dutko <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > That's what I was thinking- It should be over cooled I would think???
> >
> > Mark
> >
David Brandt wrote:
> >
> > > That's the reply I got - of course it's over 100 here, and it
> > > typically flashes towards the end of the hot afternoon drive, so I
> > > can believe it's getting hot. It's hard to believe yours is...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > David Brandt
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Mark Dutko <[email protected]>
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:26:56 PM
> > > Subject: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> > >
> > >
> > > I drove my Yaris on the Freeway today and never pulled more than 60
> > > battery amps, the engine light would blink every once and a while
> > > after the first 5 miles or so. I have the Ev source cooling kit and a
> > > fan blowing on the radiator. Is this a temp warning? It's less than
> > > 70 outside and I thought I had the controller over cooled. It has
> > > also blinked in the evening when it is under 60 outside and using the
> > > controller harder.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________________
> > > ______________
> > > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
> > > that gives answers, not web links.
> > > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:57:58 -0500
>From: "Marty Hewes" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>Overcooled? What's it going to do at -20F in Chicago in January? Is there
>something I need to know? I have to wonder if it's a coolant flow problem
>or a temp sensor that's got a mind of it's own?
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Dutko" <[email protected]>
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:44 PM
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
>
>
> > That's what I was thinking- It should be over cooled I would think???
> >
> > Mark
> >
David Brandt wrote:
> >
> >> That's the reply I got - of course it's over 100 here, and it
> >> typically flashes towards the end of the hot afternoon drive, so I
> >> can believe it's getting hot. It's hard to believe yours is...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> David Brandt
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----
> >> From: Mark Dutko <[email protected]>
> >> To: [email protected]
> >> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:26:56 PM
> >> Subject: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> >>
> >>
> >> I drove my Yaris on the Freeway today and never pulled more than 60
> >> battery amps, the engine light would blink every once and a while
> >> after the first 5 miles or so. I have the Ev source cooling kit and a
> >> fan blowing on the radiator. Is this a temp warning? It's less than
> >> 70 outside and I thought I had the controller over cooled. It has
> >> also blinked in the evening when it is under 60 outside and using the
> >> controller harder.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> For subscription options, see
> >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________________
> >> ______________
> >> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
> >> that gives answers, not web links.
> >> http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> For subscription options, see
> >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:59:03 -0500
>From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings, Re: New HEV and EV
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>marty what has been said many time is do not do business with them untill
>they change their ways that the bad vibs are intented to make them aware
>that they must change and make honest restitution for the wrong they have
>done this is not a case of punish untill they give a pound of flesh + more
>and then make restutition . you are coming in on the tail of a real long
>thread . these guy don't want ts's life blood they want ts to make things
>right AND make honest restitution . that isnt any more than you would want
>from a maf. that did you wrong .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marty Hewes<mailto:[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 6:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings, Re: New HEV and EV
>
>
> This reminds me of certain parts of the world where dwelling on the past
> creates such anger that making a better situation for the future just
>can't
> happen. I'm not saying what happened in the past was acceptable. But
>it
> was the past, and holding onto that anger and simply attacking them is
>not
> going to get us where we'd like to be, having a reliable supplier. The
> question is, is there a way to get from a troubled history, to a
>position
> where we can count on them to supply us good batteries? Just lashing
>out at
> them is non-productive. What do we need to do to quit dwelling on the
>past
> and negotiate this to a mutually rewarding future? We need higher tech
> batteries, few companies will talk to us, and this dwelling on the past
>to
> the exclusion of moving forward is seriously getting in the way.
>
> There is a huge difference between encouraging a teenage thief to do the
> crime, and locking him up for life with no chance of parole for a bad
> decision.
>
> I'm a new person around here, and I would really like some decent
>batteries.
> I'm getting really tired of hearing why I shouldn't have access to them
> because of what someone (did I read that the "someone " doesn't even
>work
> there anymore?) did to someone else a while back. I want to know what
>is
> being negotiated to move forward.
>
> I suggest reading the book "Culture Shock" by Kevin Sinclair. He's got
>some
> very specific suggestions about how to get such problems corrected.
>
> Marty
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
><[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 5:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings, Re: New HEV and EV
>
>
> > Rod Dilkes wrote:
> >
> > > I can understand the TS factory's reluctance to offer a warranty in
> > > the circumstance where no battery management system was used.
> >
> > A BMS had nothing to do with it. TS sold defective cells to begin
>with,
> > no BMS is meant (or can) fix bad cells.
> >
> > I meant to use the product with real BMS. Does this make any
>difference?
> >
> > > However it does nothing to help the grass roots EV industry by
> > > defaming one of the few battery manufacturers that will actually
> > > supply EV enthusiasts!
> >
> > Are you suggesting to praise them for what they did in the sake of
> > potential future benefits for EV enthusiasts? Sort of like encourage
> > teenage thief to do the crime now (by letting it slide) because there
>is
> > a chance he will a good grown up person in future.
> >
> > Victor
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> >
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> >
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:58:25 -0600
>From: "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] vacuum pump noise
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Hello David,
>
>I purchase the GMC vacuum pump for a GM dealer. Any one will do, a Chevy
>or
>GMC is the same. It is a belt driven type that is mounted to a GMC engine
>front mount accessory unit, that holds a Delco inverter-alternator, air
>conditional pump and a place for the vacuum pump and canister, and two
>electric drive motors that fit in the same spot that the power steering
>would be. The power steering unit is a separate mounted electric unit.
>
>If you are running a automatic transmission like I am, make sure you get
>the
>GMC vacuum value that attaches to the accelerator linkage, that controls
>the
>transmission pump pressure like a engine vacuum would.
>
>The pilot shaft of the main motor can also drive these units using a
>electric clutch that is engage when the accelerator unit is off, or the
>electric motor comes on line when the accelerator is on.
>
>One of the large Buick's has a nice aluminum accessory frame work that also
>attaches to the front of the engine which will work by attaching it to the
>front of the new Warp 11 motors that has six tap bolt holes on the front
>motor face.
>
>Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David Brandt" <[email protected]>
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 6:41 PM
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] vacuum pump noise
>
>
> > Actually, Roland, your pump is different than the ones most of us use.
>We
> > typically use diaphragm pumps. These are reliable and sturdy, and do
>not
> > technically require a separate check valve (though it is a good idea to
> > include one) because there is a very high resistance to leak through due
> > to the design of the pump. The reliability (and the fact they already
> > make one in the right size that runs off of 12VDC) is probably why
>nobody
> > has yet tried to make something better specifically for EV's. Even the
> > one Victor offers is a diaphragm style, I believe (correct me if that is
> > wrong, Victor).
> >
> > They make a lot of noise by the very design of the pump. It is
> > unbalanced, as well as the fact it pumps that rubber diaphragm back and
> > forth, and it also uses reed style valves that can add additional noise.
> >
> > In contrast to yours, the diaphragm style pump radiates its noise from
>two
> > sources - the secondary source is the vibration it transmits through the
> > supporting structure. The primary source is from the diaphragm and is
> > transmitted out the exhaust, which is why filtering the exhaust does a
> > decent job of silencing it.
> >
> > A vane style pump like yours, if functioning correctly, should make very
> > little noise, but does require a separate check valve, as there is a
>large
> > leak path even when the pump is new. It can draw down a vacuum very
> > quickly, though.
> >
> > If it does make noise (and is functioning properly), it is likely due to
> > the cam (liner) design allowing the blades to experience shock. The
>only
> > way to ensure this does not happen is to cut a cam profile (specifically
>a
> > cycloidal profile) into the interior of the liner. Most pumps typically
> > just use a circle, though, because it is easier to make. The noise is
> > acceptable, because a diesel engine will easily drown it out, even just
> > idling!
> >
> > Personally, I'd be interested in the part number you are using, where to
> > get them, and how quickly it draws down a vacuum. Are you running it
>off
> > of your acessory drive system?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > David Brandt
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Roland Wiench <[email protected]>
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 7:06:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] vacuum pump noise
> >
> >
> > The noise in the vacuum pump is sometime cause by the check value in the
> > vacuum pump that pops open and close which is more noisy at lower in.hg.
> > As
> > the vacuum builds up to above 15 in.hg. it should decrease in the noise
> > factor and when you get to about 18 in.hg. then there is hardly any
>noise
> > at
> > all and at 22 in.hg., I can't here it.
> >
> > If you do not have a large enough canister that should have addition
> > vacuum
> > check valves before and after the canister, plus addition check values
>for
> > each addition vacuum take off, the bleed down will be faster and you may
> > not
> > get to the higher vacuum reading.
> >
> > Of course if you have a vacuum pump that only goes to 15 in.hg., then
>you
> > will always have some noise.
> >
> > I install a vacuum meter on this system, which I find that the noise is
> > greater at initial start up and it fades away when it gets above 18
>in.hg.
> >
> > I am using a GMC vacuum pump design for a diesel truck. It is a radial
> > vane
> > type that will pull 22 in.hg. For some devices that required a lower
> > vacuum, than a GMC vacuum value can be added which adjusts the vacuum to
> > any
> > setting as needed.
> >
> > Tubing will not work, because the through bolt still transmit the noise
>to
> > the chassis. Use rubber insert nuts on the vacuum pump which is then
> > mounted to a 1/4 inch thick aluminum plate, and then mount that aluminum
> > plate with rubber insert nuts to your mounting area. You can get these
> > rubber insert nuts from a hardware store.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dan Whitley" <[email protected]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 2:08 PM
> > Subject: [EVDL] vacuum pump noise
> >
> >
> > > What is the best way to reduce the noise from the vacuum pump?
> > > Despite it having rubber washers to separate it from the wheel well
> > > it is quite noisy. The controller also has some noise that is
> > > probably normal, but with all the "quite" it is rather annoying!
> > > Thanks, Dan
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
> >
> >
>____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
> > knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 11
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:59:30 -0500
>From: "Marty Hewes" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone heard from the NEDRA Nationals?
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>Dave is OK I hope?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:33 PM
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone heard from the NEDRA Nationals?
>
>
> > I'll chime in.
> > Speaking oly of Friday Night's NEDRA activities, it was quite a scene.
> > Probably 2 dozen or more EV's at the races and at least 10 race EV's.
> > The racing EV's that I saw Friday night (until about 10:30pm) included:
> > * White Zombie (Wayland's 70's Datsun)
> > * Orange Poppy (Otmar's 914)
> > * Cobra EV
> > * Dave Cloud's Geo
> > * Rick Barnes' compact
> > * Don Crabtree's FrankenDragon electric motorcycle
> >
> > Along with these there were other EV's present including:
> > * Viktor Tikhonov's Honda CRX
> > * Tim Kutscha's red 914
> > * The 5' diam propeller powered land buggy (raced at Woodburn a number
>of
> > years ago)
> > * A couple of PHEV's
> > * My 1921 Milburn Light Electric coupe
> > * An electric Datsun pickup
> > * Rod Wilde's Gone Postal van
> > * Rich Rudman's Goldie(?)---didn't see it there but assumed it was there
> > * I'm sure there were several others
> >
> > I didn't catch all the racing, but did see Tim Brehm take the White
>Zombie
> > to a 12.2sec finish and later heard John Wayland come by saying that in
> > another run the Zombie and its competitor both runed 12.0 somethings...
> >
> > I also saw the electric Cobra turn something like 12.2sec in its first
>run
> > using what looked like an array of DeWalt lithium packs.
> >
> > I saw the aftermath of a run that Dave Cloud's car made---a situation
>that
> > shut the track down for at least 30minutes and causing the loudest and
> > fastest gas cars to have to quit racing for the evening.
> >
> > It was a lot of fun, with dozens of good EV folks talking EVs.
> >>From the stands, the crowd was bigger than usual I thought.
> > And the crowd went wild with every EV that raced...wild that is until
>the
> > track shut down for a half hour...I saw many folks left the track during
> > that time.
> >
> > I'm sure others can chime in with the details on all of this. And I
> > guarantee there'll be stories.
> > For me, it was a peaceful drive out to the track with my dad in an old
> > timey car that predates his age by 11 years. It was the second drag
>race
> > he'd ever been to...the first being 4 years before I was born.
> > It was really neat quietly cruising the old electric jalopy the 12miles
> > back home in the dark.
> >
> > -Myles Twete
> > 1921 Milburn Light Electric: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/348
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Mike Willmon <[email protected]>
> >
> >> Here it is Sunday and I'm about to go into withdrawls.
> >> Someone had to have raced ;-)
> >> Hope nobody broke anything, except records.
> >>
> >> Mike,
> >> Anchorage, Ak.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> For subscription options, see
> >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 12
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 18:02:00 -0700
>From: "Tom Shay" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] H2 FS Record Ford
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>The fuel cell powered Fusion 999 ran at 207 mph on the Bonneville Salt
>Flats
>on July 16, 2007.
>This car obviously was not designed as a practical vehicle, but as a
>demonstration of how fast
>a fuel cell powered car could go at Bonneville. All the available space in
>and under the car is filled
>with fuel cells, tanks and various equipment.
>
>We shouldn't sneer and make snide remarks about Fool Cells. Whether we
>agree
>or not, fuel
>cells will probably be used in future vehicles.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Steven Lough" <[email protected]>
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 2:52 PM
>Subject: [EVDL] H2 FS Record Ford
>
>
> > After viewing the YouTube story from Autoblog, ( very good detail )
> > at: a look into the design of the Ford
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rACx-YJXEgg
> >
> > ....There should be NO mistaking why we call these things FOOL CELLS
> >
> > Notice that there is only room in the car for a driver...
> >
> > I think it would be relatively simple to build a 200 mph car with
> > room for 2, +
> > using LiIon Technology, and AC OR DC drive....
> > at WHAT......1/4th the cost ???
> > --
> > Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> > Seattle EV Association
> > 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> > Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> > Day: 206 850-8535
> > Eve: 206 524-1351
> > e-mail: [email protected]
> > web: http://www.seattleeva.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 13
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:12:07 -0500
>From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] another berlingo question
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>it may have been his opinion but very good professional advice you should
>follow
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steve O<mailto:[email protected]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 7:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] another berlingo question
>
>
> Yeah Ian suggested we checked the fault light. It was there and OK. The
>main difference between his and mine is when I bought my berlingo it was
>actually working and running with no warning lights! Also there is no
>obvious burned up circuitry.
>
> Ians motor is fixed anyway. Correct diagnosis with the field coils.
>Interestingly the chap who fixed the motor said these motors should be
>taken to bits when changing the brushes and fully cleaned out. This is
>because the carbon from brushes mixes with a tiny amount of gear box oil
>and makes a nice grinding compound in the motor which is good for
>knackering the coils. Also 2 of the brushes are impossible to get to
>without taking the motor to bits. Just changing the 2 brushes at the top
>that you can get at is not good enough. Just his opinion!!
>
> Looking forward to getting Ian's controller back!
>
> Steve
>
> Evan Tuer <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> Just a thought, have you checked that the fault light is actually
>working?
>
> That other unit I've got in for repair came from a vehicle with
> similar symptoms, the power section is utterly blown up (and then
> hack-repaired) and it had been sold like that with the fault light
> taken out of the dash. Must get on with fixing it.
>
> Regards
> Evan
>
> On 8/17/07, Steve O wrote:
> > Hi Phillippe
> >
> > Thanks for your reply. My eberlingo went from running fine to not
>running with no warning lights at all.
> > First click of the ignition fires up the cooling system etc (whirring
>noise) and the charge goes up to 100% on the dashboard. Trying to do the
>next click to engage the main contactor - nothing. No green "drive" light,
>no musical chime and no clunk of the main contactor. Hence it will not go.
>I have taken the cover off the main ECU and there is no obvious burnt out
>tracks but I do not really know what I am looking for!
> > Citroen say I need a new ECU.
> > A friend with some knowledge of these cars tells me some part of the
>"start sequence" must not be working therefore the main contactor will not
>click. The battery pack is in good order, There is no electrical fault
>light on the dash. Any thoughts?
> > I would gladly buy a working ECU from a scrap vehicle if you know of
>one that is working. Let me know the price / postage cost etc.
> >
> > Merci!!
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > "vehiculeselectriques.free.fr" wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > These ECU are beautiful electronics and very reliable but whole system
>next
> > to them is less ...
> > Most common fault with PSA ECU is charger going into security mode....
>or
> > bang
> > It happen near each time after leakage of battery/ECU colant system as
>water
> > pump ... is now pumping air, no more cooling, 3kW charger is going hot
>to
> > hell and cut off or die
> > You can drive the car but no more charge it and find your car in half
> > charged state with "electric fault" light ON at morning.
> >
> > Disconnecting High Voltage (Rear pack behind left wheel fuse is most
> > easy/quick to catch) reset the ECU stored fault.
> > But you have to check water level on the coolant tank, right side
>under the
> > hood.
> > If it's low or empty instead of full to the top end as it should be,
>you
> > HAVE to find the coolant hoosing leak, most of the time it's on rear
>box but
> > check for coolant water sign on the floor after filling the tank to
>full
> > again.
> > dismount battery box and repair the leak with polyur?thane glue on the
>2
> > crap plastic oblong hoose part where the leak is.
> >
> > Generaly (if fault is well known and electronic cards not too much
>toasted)
> > these faulty ECU can be rebuilt, you can contact me by email off list.
> >
> > Philippe
> > vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> >
> >
> >
> > 2007/8/17, Thomas Ward :
> > >
> > > steve
> > >
> > > I don't think there is a controller suitable for the berlingo 162V
>Sepex
> > > motor.
> > >
> > > I believe you could use a Zilla on the armature with a constant
>voltage
> > > on the field. I asked Otmar about this and he dissuaded me from
>doing so.
> > >
> > >
> > > you can pick up spare parts for berlingos in france.
> > >
> > > I bought a few parts off a guy in bordeaux, he had one accident
>damaged
> > > van and one almost perfect but without the largest of the battery
> > > modules. I think he wanted 1500 euros for the whole thing. I can try
>to
> > > find his email address if you want. I initially contacted him via an
> > > advert on the forums of Phillip Borges vehiculeseletriques.free.fr
> > > website which is very useful if you can read French. I'm sure you
>will
> > > find some spare parts from there.
> > >
> > > I haven't heard any reports of the controller being unreliable but
>have
> > > heard many reports of citroen being unable to service. For example
>the
> > > battery cooling system on my berlingo developed a small leak last
>Spring
> > > and registered a low water fault. I took it to the Citroen garage,
>they
> > > told me the controller was faulty and that I needed to spend 5 grand
>on
> > > a new one. When I got it home I had a look and soon discovered the
>low
> > > water and the water leak. I refilled the water, completely
>disconnected
> > > the main and the 12V batteries, reconnected and the car was fine.
>There
> > > was nothing wrong with the controller, I drove it for another 8000
>miles
> > > with no problems (other than having to top up the cooling water
>every
> > > trip and every charge).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > steve ollerton wrote:
> > > > Hello again
> > > >
> > > > If I decided to sack off the berlingo controller gubbins (which
>seem
> > > > fairly unreliable anyway) which controller would suit the 170V DC
>system
> > > > that this car has. Citroen want 5 grand for a new ECU / controller
>box.
> > > > Any cheaper options available?
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > For subscription options, see
> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
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> > > For subscription options, see
> > >
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> > >
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>
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 14
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:15:02 -0700
>From: Mark Dutko <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>Water cooled, radiator, fan from EV source...
>
>
>On Aug 19, 2007, at 6:57 PM, Morgan LaMoore wrote:
>
> > If it's air-cooled, could it be dust in the heatsinks? My laptop was
> > overheating recently (getting over 90 Celsius), and I found that a
> > 1/4"
> > layer of dust was blocking the heatsinks.
> >
> > I don't know if you want to take apart your controller to check that,
> > though, it might void your warranty.
> >
> > -Morgan LaMoore
> >
> > On 8/19/07, Mark Dutko <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> That's what I was thinking- It should be over cooled I would think???
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
David Brandt wrote:
> >>
> >>> That's the reply I got - of course it's over 100 here, and it
> >>> typically flashes towards the end of the hot afternoon drive, so I
> >>> can believe it's getting hot. It's hard to believe yours is...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> David Brandt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>> From: Mark Dutko <[email protected]>
> >>> To: [email protected]
> >>> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:26:56 PM
> >>> Subject: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I drove my Yaris on the Freeway today and never pulled more than 60
> >>> battery amps, the engine light would blink every once and a while
> >>> after the first 5 miles or so. I have the Ev source cooling kit
> >>> and a
> >>> fan blowing on the radiator. Is this a temp warning? It's less than
> >>> 70 outside and I thought I had the controller over cooled. It has
> >>> also blinked in the evening when it is under 60 outside and using
> >>> the
> >>> controller harder.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Mark
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> For subscription options, see
> >>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ____________________________________________________________________
> >>> __
> >>> ______________
> >>> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
> >>> that gives answers, not web links.
> >>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> For subscription options, see
> >>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> For subscription options, see
> >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 15
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:17:25 -0700
>From: Mark Dutko <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>I bled all viable bubbles out of the system, the radiator does get
>war and the brass fitting on the pump is quite warm so I assume the
>coolant is flowing..
>
>
>On Aug 19, 2007, at 6:57 PM, Marty Hewes wrote:
>
> > Overcooled? What's it going to do at -20F in Chicago in January?
> > Is there
> > something I need to know? I have to wonder if it's a coolant flow
> > problem
> > or a temp sensor that's got a mind of it's own?
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Dutko" <[email protected]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> >
> >
> >> That's what I was thinking- It should be over cooled I would think???
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
David Brandt wrote:
> >>
> >>> That's the reply I got - of course it's over 100 here, and it
> >>> typically flashes towards the end of the hot afternoon drive, so I
> >>> can believe it's getting hot. It's hard to believe yours is...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> David Brandt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>> From: Mark Dutko <[email protected]>
> >>> To: [email protected]
> >>> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:26:56 PM
> >>> Subject: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I drove my Yaris on the Freeway today and never pulled more than 60
> >>> battery amps, the engine light would blink every once and a while
> >>> after the first 5 miles or so. I have the Ev source cooling kit
> >>> and a
> >>> fan blowing on the radiator. Is this a temp warning? It's less than
> >>> 70 outside and I thought I had the controller over cooled. It has
> >>> also blinked in the evening when it is under 60 outside and using
> >>> the
> >>> controller harder.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Mark
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> For subscription options, see
> >>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ____________________________________________________________________
> >>> __
> >>> ______________
> >>> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
> >>> that gives answers, not web links.
> >>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> For subscription options, see
> >>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> For subscription options, see
> >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 16
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:19:40 -0700
>From: JS <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Powdercoating corroding; arcing between batt.
> terminal and battery rack
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Bob Bath wrote:
>
> > Anyone else had this happen? I'm frustrated at
> > puddling of acid around the battery tops, meaning that
> > the quick caps (all that US Battery is selling right
> > now) are indirectly responsible.
>
>I just put 2 of the quick caps (3 ganged) on my Trojan T105,
>and after 2 weeks I found acid had leaked out of the center
>cell cap, even though the water was low. I did not like
>the trojan grouping of 3 caps. I'm planning to find
>individual caps. (My other 46 cells were dry.)
>
>John in Sylmar, Ca
>PV EV
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 17
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 21:40:22 -0500
>From: "Marty Hewes" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings, Re: New HEV and EV
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>Nasty comments on a web site, and venting anger in an Email forum isn't
>likely to fix the past situation, or develop a working relationship with a
>possibly promising future. You need to realize that we (home builders of
>BEV) are not perceived to be a big market, and that they do not live or die
>by what we think of them.
>
>There are two approaches we should be taking. First is to present some
>data
>as to how many $ we might spend in the near term future if they clean up
>their act. The other (hopefully simultaneous) approach is to bring some
>pressure down on them. It won't be from a web site or from a forum. The
>Chinese government is very concerned with perceptions about trade with
>companies in China, especially in the last few weeks (at least nobody's
>bitching about the lead content in batteries) and companies in China are
>very concerned with the governments perception of them. I was serious, the
>book Culture Shock covers this stuff. There are ways to fix this, and I
>don't see us pursuing them.
>
>I belong to the U.S. - China Chamber of Commerce here in Chicago. The
>purpose of the chamber is to break down trade barriers and solve problems.
>The chamber knows influential people in Shenzhen China, and I've been there
>myself (got the fake Rolex to prove it) and intend to go back. I might be
>able to do something about this, but I'm hearing a lot of complaining, too
>many differing opinions about what actually happened. I see no
>documentation
>about what the exact problems were, or what has been done recently to try
>to
>fix it, just a lot of hostility. That makes it pretty tough for me to do
>anything.
>
>Marty
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "FRED JEANETTE MERTENS" <[email protected]>
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:59 PM
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings, Re: New HEV and EV
>
>
> > marty what has been said many time is do not do business with them
> > untill they change their ways that the bad vibs are intented to make
>them
> > aware that they must change and make honest restitution for the wrong
>they
> > have done this is not a case of punish untill they give a pound of
>flesh
> > + more and then make restutition . you are coming in on the tail of a
> > real long thread . these guy don't want ts's life blood they want ts to
> > make things right AND make honest restitution . that isnt any more than
> > you would want from a maf. that did you wrong .
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Marty Hewes<mailto:[email protected]>
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 6:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings, Re: New HEV and EV
> >
> >
> > This reminds me of certain parts of the world where dwelling on the
>past
> > creates such anger that making a better situation for the future just
> > can't
> > happen. I'm not saying what happened in the past was acceptable. But
>it
> > was the past, and holding onto that anger and simply attacking them is
> > not
> > going to get us where we'd like to be, having a reliable supplier. The
> > question is, is there a way to get from a troubled history, to a
>position
> > where we can count on them to supply us good batteries? Just lashing
>out
> > at
> > them is non-productive. What do we need to do to quit dwelling on the
> > past
> > and negotiate this to a mutually rewarding future? We need higher tech
> > batteries, few companies will talk to us, and this dwelling on the past
> > to
> > the exclusion of moving forward is seriously getting in the way.
> >
> > There is a huge difference between encouraging a teenage thief to do
>the
> > crime, and locking him up for life with no chance of parole for a bad
> > decision.
> >
> > I'm a new person around here, and I would really like some decent
> > batteries.
> > I'm getting really tired of hearing why I shouldn't have access to them
> > because of what someone (did I read that the "someone " doesn't even
>work
> > there anymore?) did to someone else a while back. I want to know what
>is
> > being negotiated to move forward.
> >
> > I suggest reading the book "Culture Shock" by Kevin Sinclair. He's got
> > some
> > very specific suggestions about how to get such problems corrected.
> >
> > Marty
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 5:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] TS warnings, Re: New HEV and EV
> >
> >
> > > Rod Dilkes wrote:
> > >
> > > > I can understand the TS factory's reluctance to offer a warranty in
> > > > the circumstance where no battery management system was used.
> > >
> > > A BMS had nothing to do with it. TS sold defective cells to begin
>with,
> > > no BMS is meant (or can) fix bad cells.
> > >
> > > I meant to use the product with real BMS. Does this make any
> > difference?
> > >
> > > > However it does nothing to help the grass roots EV industry by
> > > > defaming one of the few battery manufacturers that will actually
> > > > supply EV enthusiasts!
> > >
> > > Are you suggesting to praise them for what they did in the sake of
> > > potential future benefits for EV enthusiasts? Sort of like encourage
> > > teenage thief to do the crime now (by letting it slide) because there
> > is
> > > a chance he will a good grown up person in future.
> > >
> > > Victor
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > >
> >
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> >
> >
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev<http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev>
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 18
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:59:00 -0600
>From: "Roland Wiench" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Not likely it overcool. I ran the Zilla at -33 below and that's even with
>a
>large radiator fan, large holding tank and a 1 gallon per minute pump, and
>also a filter air 150 CFM Dayton blower.
>
>One LED is a low voltage indicator, and will flash when the main battery
>pack goes below the preset advance warning limit you program in that should
>be about 5 volts above the low warning limit, where it should stay on
>steady.
>
>The other LED is a pre-charge status that lights up when you start turning
>on the contactor circuit and then both lights should go off after start up.
>
>Also check the trouble codes and clear them out to see what happens. It
>also
>could be a loose or high resistance battery wire or may be a contactor
>bounce that could show a intermitted higher resistance.
>
>Roland
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mark Dutko" <[email protected]>
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:17 PM
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
>
>
> > I bled all viable bubbles out of the system, the radiator does get
> > war and the brass fitting on the pump is quite warm so I assume the
> > coolant is flowing..
> >
> >
> > On Aug 19, 2007, at 6:57 PM, Marty Hewes wrote:
> >
> > > Overcooled? What's it going to do at -20F in Chicago in January?
> > > Is there
> > > something I need to know? I have to wonder if it's a coolant flow
> > > problem
> > > or a temp sensor that's got a mind of it's own?
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Mark Dutko" <[email protected]>
> > > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:44 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> > >
> > >
> > >> That's what I was thinking- It should be over cooled I would think???
> > >>
> > >> Mark
> > >>
David Brandt wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> That's the reply I got - of course it's over 100 here, and it
> > >>> typically flashes towards the end of the hot afternoon drive, so I
> > >>> can believe it's getting hot. It's hard to believe yours is...
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> David Brandt
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message ----
> > >>> From: Mark Dutko <[email protected]>
> > >>> To: [email protected]
> > >>> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:26:56 PM
> > >>> Subject: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I drove my Yaris on the Freeway today and never pulled more than 60
> > >>> battery amps, the engine light would blink every once and a while
> > >>> after the first 5 miles or so. I have the Ev source cooling kit
> > >>> and a
> > >>> fan blowing on the radiator. Is this a temp warning? It's less than
> > >>> 70 outside and I thought I had the controller over cooled. It has
> > >>> also blinked in the evening when it is under 60 outside and using
> > >>> the
> > >>> controller harder.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> Mark
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> For subscription options, see
> > >>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ____________________________________________________________________
> > >>> __
> > >>> ______________
> > >>> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
> > >>> that gives answers, not web links.
> > >>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> For subscription options, see
> > >>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> For subscription options, see
> > >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > For subscription options, see
> > > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 19
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:59:24 -0700
>From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] [EV] Re: oops
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID:
> <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Hi Eduardo,
>
>OK. Mountain View is bicycle-distance for me ;-)
>And Palo Alto is again the next town over.
>You come to the right place.
>
>San Jose EAA chapter meets every 2nd Sat of the month
>at Reid-Hillview Airport in San Jose, the Silicon Valley
>chapter meets every 3rd Sat in an HP building in Palo Alto.
>I believe the East Bay chapter meets the fourth Sat, while
>the San Francisco chapter meets the first Saturday.
>See the http://EAAEV.org
>http://eaaev.org/eaachapters.html#CALIFORNIA
>
>Besides the chapter meetings, you can meet interested
>individuals and their EVs.
>
>Regards,
>
>Cor van de Water
>Systems Architect
>Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
>Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
>Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
>Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
>Behalf Of Eduardo Kaftanski
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 2:17 PM
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] [EV] Re: oops
>
>On Sun, Aug 19, 2007 at 01:26:48PM -0700, Cor van de Water wrote:
> > Where in California? It is kinda big here, you may need an entire
> > weekend just to drink coffee with a person somewhere else in this
> > state.
>
>Sorry, I'll be in Mountain View, 45 min from San Francisco. I am currently
>11 plane hours away, so if I do have to cross the entire state it may still
>be worthy :)
>
> > Anyway - here in the San Francisco Bay area is an EV-hotspot, so if
> > you are in this area then there are several EAA chapters to
> > potentially meet up with, plus many individuals.
>
>Thats good then! I have to make reservations in a week, so I still have
>time to go a couple of days early or stay a day or two after those two
>dates I have to be in Mountain View.
>
>This will be my third time in the bay area, maybe this time I can rent a
>Prius to at least go half electric :)
>
>--
>Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
>http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
>http://ev.nn.cl |
> | Yo.
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 20
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 22:59:25 EDT
>From: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
>To: [email protected]
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>In a message dated 8/19/2007 5:52:21 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
>[email protected] writes:
> > Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> > Date:8/19/2007 5:52:21 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> > From:[email protected]
> > Reply-to:[email protected]
> > To:[email protected]
> > Received from Internet:
> > My zilla in my new S10 does have the warm lite blinking at about 20
>miles
> > but I do not have a fan on the radiator.I do also have a 2 quart resivor
>in the
> > loop.While I have been racing the past 2 Friday nights the warm light
>has
> > not come on. Dennis Berube
> >
> >
> > That's the reply I got - of course it's over 100 here, and it typically
> > flashes towards the end of the hot afternoon drive, so I can believe
>it's getting
> > hot. It's hard to believe yours is...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > David Brandt
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Mark Dutko <[email protected]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:26:56 PM
> > Subject: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> >
> >
> > I drove my Yaris on the Freeway today and never pulled more than 60
> > battery amps, the engine light would blink every once and a while
> > after the first 5 miles or so. I have the Ev source cooling kit and a
> > fan blowing on the radiator. Is this a temp warning? It's less than
> > 70 outside and I thought I had the controller over cooled. It has
> > also blinked in the evening when it is under 60 outside and using the
> > controller harder.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mark
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 21
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:02:52 -0700
>From: Jeff Shanab <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery help
>To: [email protected]
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Huh? I thought this was answered.
>
> I have been skimming but...watts is watts. Miles is wh/ (wh/mile)
>and wh is (ah*volts) (run thru your calculation in units first and
>you will see)
>
>Given the same efficiency, 120V at 100ah is same as 240V at 50ah, both
>are 12kwh
>
>(12000wh*.8)/ (300wh/mile) = 32miles.
>
>When we start to consider pukerts and the ah if used in an hour. And the
>I^2R losses. It gets worse from here.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 22
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:07:03 -0700
>From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery help
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID:
> <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Hi Joe,
>
>You may want to consult with John again (or ask Lee)
>if you do not believe me, but you should get the same
>answer from them, as physics laws do not lie.
>You can manipulate an experiment of course, for example
>pull away from every stop at may throttle - with the
>higher voltage you will be pulling MORE amps from the
>battery instead of less as soon as the controller is
>out of current limit, so that will ruin your range.
>You will have more fun but to compare the two trips
>as apples to apples comparison, you should use equal
>motor amps (driving at the same speed and acceleration)
>and them you will see that adding batteries does indeed
>add range.
>
>Success experimenting,
>
>Cor van de Water
>Systems Architect
>Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
>Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
>Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
>Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
>Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
>Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
>Behalf Of joe
>Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 12:52 PM
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery help
>
>You are using the engineering philosophy that the theory always can be
>reduced to practical reality - I have done this, and can testify that it
>doesn't work out that way, and my friend John Wayland explained to me why
>it doesn't, which I have passed on to you!
>
>Joseph H. Strubhar
>
>Web: www.gremcoinc.com
>
>E-mail: [email protected]
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 8:54 PM
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery help
>
>
> > Correct,
> >
> > Adding batteries will always increase the amount of
> > energy that you are carrying and it is the energy that
> > gives you range.
> > You can easily see that from the reasoning that Joe used:
> > Adding batteries in series will not give more Ah, so he
> > drew the (false) conclusion that the range will not
> > increase when the Ah stay the same and only the voltage
> > increases. But if you look at how a controller works then
> > you see that the controller will perform a task called
> > "current multiplication" when the output voltage is
> > lower than the input voltage, (almost) equal to the
> > rate between the two.
> > Eaxmple: 120V and 100A input from the battery pack can
> > result in 60V and (almost) 200A output into the motor,
> > to maintain a certain driving speed.
> > Both are (almost) the same amount of power: 12kW.
> > Now if two batteries are added to the pack, the same
> > power is delivered at 144V when the batteries deliver
> > approx 80A.
> > This means that each battery delivers less power and
> > this means that it can deliver the required power for
> > a longer period, because the total energy contained
> > in the pack is increased by adding batteries.
> >
> > Hope this clarifies,
> >
> > Cor van de Water
> > Systems Architect
> > Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> > Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> > Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> > Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> > Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> > Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > Behalf Of damon henry
> > Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 8:19 PM
> > To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] battery help
> >
> >
> > Joseph,
> >
> > You've been working too hard this summer. Adding batteries and leaving
> > everything else the same will always add range. In fact in the case of
> > lead acid batteries the range can be determined almost exclusively by
>how
> > much weight in batteries you are carrying. Whether they are in series
>or
> > parallel makes very little difference.
> >
> > BTW - I should be down at the track watching the Nedra guys run right
>now,
> > but it's looking like a possible rain out tonight. I called Wayland
>about
> > a half hour ago and they had cars lined up on the track trying to keep
>it
> > dry hoping the rain will pass.
> >
> > damon> Wait a minute, guys - as has been stated before, adding batteries
> > damon> will NOT > necessarily give you more range! It will give you
> > damon> somewhat better > performance, all else being equal. The
> > damon> amp-hours remains the same for any > number of batteries
> > damon> connected in series, and the additional weight will > negate most
> > damon> of the benefit beyond a certain point.> > Batteries connected in
> > damon> parallel will give more range, batteries connected in > series
> > damon> will boost performance.> > Joseph H. Strubhar>
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live
> > Spaces. It's easy!
> >
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> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 23
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:09:31 -0700
>From: Jeff Shanab <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] H2 FS Record Ford
>To: [email protected]
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>6700 lbs, 7miles range and 1 passenger. The most interesting is the
>comment about having presurized 60%helium+40%O2 so the did away with the
>compressor and filter. They off loaded that too. The important part is
>the electric drivetrains are being proven. This was "levereged" off the
>buckey
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 24
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:16:07 -0700
>From: Jeff Shanab <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
>To: [email protected]
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>My first guess would be overheating, remember when it flashes to ask
>yourself what were you doing a mile ago.
>
>If your system is under sized, the heat accumulates and shows up with a
>delay.
>
>I had a problem when I first got that very same pump, I just didn't have
>all the air out and it would get a air bubble in it. Once that bubble of
>air got hot, it kinda vapor locked.
>
>Plug in the notebook and record it. :)
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 25
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:22:16 -0700
>From: "David O'Neel" <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone heard from the NEDRA Nationals?
>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Message-ID:
> <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Yes, Dave is fine. His driver is OK too. ;-)
>
>On 8/19/07, Marty Hewes <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > Dave is OK I hope?
> >
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 26
>Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 20:24:46 -0700
>From: Mark Dutko <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>Thanks Roland- I will check my codes again. My engine light does come
>on at the key turn and then off at start- normal operation. Since
>this flashing only occurs after driving a while could it be a cable
>loosening under load? Or, if it were a contactor issue would it not
>be at startup only? I find it difficult to believe that the
>controller needs such extreme cooling at 50 battery amps to keep it
>from reaching a high temp. Is there a list of all the issues that
>cause a blinking engine light for the Zilla or is it just the ones
>you mentioned? MY LBV is at 36 now so that is not the problem and it
>happens on a full charge..
>
>
>
>M
>
>
>
>
>On Aug 19, 2007, at 7:59 PM, Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> > Not likely it overcool. I ran the Zilla at -33 below and that's
> > even with a
> > large radiator fan, large holding tank and a 1 gallon per minute
> > pump, and
> > also a filter air 150 CFM Dayton blower.
> >
> > One LED is a low voltage indicator, and will flash when the main
> > battery
> > pack goes below the preset advance warning limit you program in
> > that should
> > be about 5 volts above the low warning limit, where it should stay on
> > steady.
> >
> > The other LED is a pre-charge status that lights up when you start
> > turning
> > on the contactor circuit and then both lights should go off after
> > start up.
> >
> > Also check the trouble codes and clear them out to see what
> > happens. It also
> > could be a loose or high resistance battery wire or may be a contactor
> > bounce that could show a intermitted higher resistance.
> >
> > Roland
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Dutko" <[email protected]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> >
> >
> >> I bled all viable bubbles out of the system, the radiator does get
> >> war and the brass fitting on the pump is quite warm so I assume the
> >> coolant is flowing..
> >>
> >>
> >> On Aug 19, 2007, at 6:57 PM, Marty Hewes wrote:
> >>
> >>> Overcooled? What's it going to do at -20F in Chicago in January?
> >>> Is there
> >>> something I need to know? I have to wonder if it's a coolant flow
> >>> problem
> >>> or a temp sensor that's got a mind of it's own?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Mark Dutko" <[email protected]>
> >>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:44 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> That's what I was thinking- It should be over cooled I would
> >>>> think???
> >>>>
> >>>> Mark
> >>>>
David Brandt wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> That's the reply I got - of course it's over 100 here, and it
> >>>>> typically flashes towards the end of the hot afternoon drive, so I
> >>>>> can believe it's getting hot. It's hard to believe yours is...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David Brandt
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>>> From: Mark Dutko <[email protected]>
> >>>>> To: [email protected]
> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2007 8:26:56 PM
> >>>>> Subject: [EVDL] Zilla Engine Light Blinking
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I drove my Yaris on the Freeway today and never pulled more
> >>>>> than 60
> >>>>> battery amps, the engine light would blink every once and a while
> >>>>> after the first 5 miles or so. I have the Ev source cooling kit
> >>>>> and a
> >>>>> fan blowing on the radiator. Is this a temp warning? It's less
> >>>>> than
> >>>>> 70 outside and I thought I had the controller over cooled. It has
> >>>>> also blinked in the evening when it is under 60 outside and using
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> controller harder.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mark
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> For subscription options, see
> >>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> __________________________________________________________________
> >>>>> __
> >>>>> __
> >>>>> ______________
> >>>>> Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
> >>>>> that gives answers, not web links.
> >>>>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> For subscription options, see
> >>>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> For subscription options, see
> >>>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> For subscription options, see
> >>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> For subscription options, see
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> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>[email protected]
>For subscription options, see
>http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>End of EV Digest, Vol 1, Issue 53
>*********************************

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Re: [EVDL] EV Digest, Vol 1, Issue 53

On 20 Aug 2007 at 7:42, Richard Acuti wrote:

> The car ran fine yesterday before the rain. This morning I turned the key and
> didn't get the tell-tale "donk" of the Albright contactor closing. It did
> something because I pushed on the pedal and the motor -barely- spun with the
> transmission in neutral.

Need some details here. Please refresh our memories - what's the
controller, system voltage, etc.? Do you have a precharge circuit? This
sounds like there's a resistor across the contactor for precharge and for
some reason the contactor didn't close.

>
> Is the contactor toast?

No way to tell from here.


> If there was water across the cable posts would it
> damage the contactor or would it just boil away?

Unlikely to damage it.

> I read that these contactors
> have "magnetic blowouts". Did they blowout?

Mag blowouts aren't fuses and they don't "blow out" as a fuse would. Mag
blowouts are magnets that bend the electrical arc when the contactor opens,
making it easier to handle.

If you have a controller that handles precharge, that is charging its input
capacitors before closing the main contactor, my guess is that for some
reason it either has broken or didn't see what it considers necessary
conditions to allow the contactor to close and the car to be driven.

Again, give us more details on the setup, and someone may recognize what the
problem might be.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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