Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light, and a Gear Ratio Change
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Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light, and a Gear Ratio Change
Roy LeMeur wrote:
> Is there something juvenile or offensive in John's post that I missed?
I don't think so.
I think Jim L. was justified in asking John to provide all the details
of the run rather than just the ETs, which John did do.
I am a bit confused by John's explanation of 'heads-up' racing though:
if I understand him correctly it makes no difference who is the first to
cross the finish line, nor if one lane red lights; the winner is whoever
has the best ET?
My expectation was that a 'heads-up' race would be all about who is
first to the finish line, whether they got there first due to a better
ET or a better reaction time - what's "heads up" about the race if it
makes no difference if the racer leaves the line before or well after
the green light?
I thought the big difference between bracket and heads-up racing is that
the winner in bracket racing is the racer who is most consistent (i.e.
runs the closest to their dial-in without going quicker (breaking out)
than it) while heads-up is all about who gets to the end of the track
first.
I don't buy for an instant that brackets are all about the driver and
heads up all about the vehicle; in both cases the outcome depends on
both the vehicle and the driver's skill. Brackets may emphasise the
consistency of a vehicle's (and driver's) performance while heads-up
racing emphasises the absolute performance (speed/ET), however, in both
cases a skilled driver is going to make the difference between a win or
loss. I think it's a fairly safe bet that one could not replace either
Tim or Dennis with a driver picked at random from the crowd and get the
same sort of performance from the vehicle.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light, and a Gear Ratio Change
In a message dated 8/23/2007 4:16:06 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light, and a Gear Ratio
> Change
> Date:8/23/2007 4:16:06 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[email protected]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
In a message dated 8/23/2007 4:16:06 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light, and a Gear Ratio
> Change
> Date:8/23/2007 4:16:06 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[email protected]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur wrote:
>
> >Is there something juvenile or offensive in John's post that I missed?
>
> I don't think so.
>
> I think Jim L. was justified in asking John to provide all the details
> of the run rather than just the ETs, which John did do.
>
> I am a bit confused by John's explanation of 'heads-up' racing though:
> if I understand him correctly it makes no difference who is the first to
> cross the finish line, nor if one lane red lights; the winner is whoever
> has the best ET?
>
> My expectation was that a 'heads-up' race would be all about who is
> first to the finish line, whether they got there first due to a better
> ET or a better reaction time - what's "heads up" about the race if it
> makes no difference if the racer leaves the line before or well after
> the green light?
>
> I thought the big difference between bracket and heads-up racing is that
> the winner in bracket racing is the racer who is most consistent (i.e.
> runs the closest to their dial-in without going quicker (breaking out)
> than it) while heads-up is all about who gets to the end of the track
> first.
>
> I don't buy for an instant that brackets are all about the driver and
> heads up all about the vehicle; in both cases the outcome depends on
> both the vehicle and the driver's skill. Brackets may emphasise the
> consistency of a vehicle's (and driver's) performance while heads-up
> racing emphasises the absolute performance (speed/ET), however, in both
> cases a skilled driver is going to make the difference between a win or
> loss. I think it's a fairly safe bet that one could not replace either
> Tim or Dennis with a driver picked at random from the crowd and get the
> same sort of performance from the vehicle.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
I have been a heads up racer and bracket racer for a lot of years and Roger
CHEERS you have the perfect answer. Dennis Berube 2000 heads
up races and 2500 bracket runs. This means John should get
Tim a practice tree or I will loan you one a few hours before you race me and
s10 someday
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Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light, and a Gear Ratio Change
it's the bickering and ego postureing that has gone on with this post
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy LeMeur<mailto:[email protected]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light,and a Gear Ratio Change
it's the bickering and ego postureing that has gone on with this post
----- Original Message -----
From: Roy LeMeur<mailto:[email protected]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light,and a Gear Ratio Change
FRED JEANETTE MERTENS wrote:
>ok guys ENOUGH OF THIS 5 YR OLD SHIT . YOU ARE TAKING THE ENJOYMENT OUT OF
>THE PIR AND THE EVDL so stop it now
Um... What is the issue here?
Is there something juvenile or offensive in John's post that I missed?
I don't get it.
Roy
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Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light, and a Gear Ratio Change
But most are old friends, and they are just jousting.
You have to learn to pick the gems out of the rough and let the rest go.
John, I've seen you reason before and come to the conclusion that losing a tenth or so on the launch would be made up for by the
contiued acceleration towards the end of th track. In my short time on the list I've seen Rod try steering you in that direction
several times. But you seem to keep jumping back to the shorter gears. Gaining 60 ft times at some point seems an excercise in
futility when the trade off is much of your top end. Not that I would know. But with maybe 30% more torque I'm going with a
3.25. I think I can get more area under the curve with a long gradual rise to a large top end, rather than a real short steep
hole shot with a flat acceleration with a somewhat lower top end. Just educated guesing on my part based on some of your's, Rod's
and others comments.
So back to Heads Off racing ;-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> Behalf Of FRED JEANETTE MERTENS
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:38 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light,and a
> Gear Ratio Change
>
>
> it's the bickering and ego postureing that has gone on with this post
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roy LeMeur<mailto:[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light,and a Gear Ratio Change
>
>
>
But most are old friends, and they are just jousting.
You have to learn to pick the gems out of the rough and let the rest go.
John, I've seen you reason before and come to the conclusion that losing a tenth or so on the launch would be made up for by the
contiued acceleration towards the end of th track. In my short time on the list I've seen Rod try steering you in that direction
several times. But you seem to keep jumping back to the shorter gears. Gaining 60 ft times at some point seems an excercise in
futility when the trade off is much of your top end. Not that I would know. But with maybe 30% more torque I'm going with a
3.25. I think I can get more area under the curve with a long gradual rise to a large top end, rather than a real short steep
hole shot with a flat acceleration with a somewhat lower top end. Just educated guesing on my part based on some of your's, Rod's
and others comments.
So back to Heads Off racing ;-)
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> Behalf Of FRED JEANETTE MERTENS
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:38 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light,and a
> Gear Ratio Change
>
>
> it's the bickering and ego postureing that has gone on with this post
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Roy LeMeur<mailto:[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light,and a Gear Ratio Change
>
>
>
> FRED JEANETTE MERTENS wrote:
> >ok guys ENOUGH OF THIS 5 YR OLD SHIT . YOU ARE TAKING THE ENJOYMENT OUT OF
> >THE PIR AND THE EVDL so stop it now
>
>
> Um... What is the issue here?
>
> Is there something juvenile or offensive in John's post that I missed?
>
> I don't get it.
>
> Roy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Now you can see trouble.before he arrives
>
> http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507<http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_m
igration_HM_viral_protection_0507>
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Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light, and a Gear Ratio Change
Mike Willmon wrote
>Gaining 60 ft times at some point seems an excercise in
>futility when the trade off is much of your top end. Not that I would
>know. But with maybe 30% more torque I'm going with a
>3.25. I think I can get more area under the curve with a long gradual rise
>to a large top end, rather than a real short steep
>hole shot with a flat acceleration with a somewhat lower top end. Just
>educated guesing on my part based on some of your's, Rod's
>and others comments.
I agree with Mike here.
I think the gains to be made in the Zombie should be focused on the top end
and keep the higher gear ratio. Once the four-link is in place it should be
a no-brainer.
IMHO.
John?
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
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Mike Willmon wrote
>Gaining 60 ft times at some point seems an excercise in
>futility when the trade off is much of your top end. Not that I would
>know. But with maybe 30% more torque I'm going with a
>3.25. I think I can get more area under the curve with a long gradual rise
>to a large top end, rather than a real short steep
>hole shot with a flat acceleration with a somewhat lower top end. Just
>educated guesing on my part based on some of your's, Rod's
>and others comments.
I agree with Mike here.
I think the gains to be made in the Zombie should be focused on the top end
and keep the higher gear ratio. Once the four-link is in place it should be
a no-brainer.
IMHO.
John?
~~~~~~
Roy LeMeur
_________________________________________________________________
Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
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Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light, and a Gear Ratio Change
In a message dated 8/23/2007 8:56:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
But you seem to keep jumping back to the shorter gears. Gaining 60 ft times
at some point seems an excercise in
futility when the trade off is much of your top end. Not that I would know.
But with maybe 30% more torque I'm going with a
3.25. I think I can get more area under the curve with a long gradual rise
to a large top end, rather than a real short steep
hole shot with a flat acceleration with a somewhat lower top end. Just
educated guesing on my part based on some of your's, Rod's
and others comments.
----------------------------------------------
you kids are starting to catch on, MPH does not win a drag race, ET is the
only thing that brings home the money, a good racer will sacrifice a couple of
MPH just to get 1 tenth of a second better ET.
Jim L
ps when you get to my age you will know all this.
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In a message dated 8/23/2007 8:56:27 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
But you seem to keep jumping back to the shorter gears. Gaining 60 ft times
at some point seems an excercise in
futility when the trade off is much of your top end. Not that I would know.
But with maybe 30% more torque I'm going with a
3.25. I think I can get more area under the curve with a long gradual rise
to a large top end, rather than a real short steep
hole shot with a flat acceleration with a somewhat lower top end. Just
educated guesing on my part based on some of your's, Rod's
and others comments.
----------------------------------------------
you kids are starting to catch on, MPH does not win a drag race, ET is the
only thing that brings home the money, a good racer will sacrifice a couple of
MPH just to get 1 tenth of a second better ET.
Jim L
ps when you get to my age you will know all this.
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light, and a Gear Ratio Change
I suppose the times will tell, but I would think a little acceleration early
on is better than acceleration later on, because then you are travelling
most of the strip faster, more area under the meat of the curve, as long as
you've got the traction to use the added low end and your rotational mass
isn't making the additional gear pointless. The four link should help keep
the traction from being the limiting factor, and siamesed, no flywheel,
direct drive motors will have less rotational mass than bigger motor and
flywheel or torque converter setups. One good thing about the Ford 9", if
you set up a few pumpkins, they are relatively easy to swap, and the bone
yards are full of pumpkins (at least my favorite one is).
This reminds me of the jet vs. funny car matches they used to run. The
funny cars would accelerate much harder off the line and be half way down
the strip before the jets got moving fast enough to generate much thrust,
then the jets would come on and try to make up the lost time and catch them
at the end. The ET's weren't that much different, but the jets had a lot of
trap speed.
But what do I know, I've only been down the quarter maybe 10 times. My
successes were in autocross. I really want to build a twin motor electric
Lotus 7 and carry the flag in autocross.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light,and a Gear
Ratio Change
>
> Mike Willmon wrote
>>Gaining 60 ft times at some point seems an excercise in
>>futility when the trade off is much of your top end. Not that I would
>>know. But with maybe 30% more torque I'm going with a
>>3.25. I think I can get more area under the curve with a long gradual
>>rise
>>to a large top end, rather than a real short steep
>>hole shot with a flat acceleration with a somewhat lower top end. Just
>>educated guesing on my part based on some of your's, Rod's
>>and others comments.
>
> I agree with Mike here.
>
> I think the gains to be made in the Zombie should be focused on the top
> end
> and keep the higher gear ratio. Once the four-link is in place it should
> be
> a no-brainer.
>
> IMHO.
>
> John?
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
> http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
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I suppose the times will tell, but I would think a little acceleration early
on is better than acceleration later on, because then you are travelling
most of the strip faster, more area under the meat of the curve, as long as
you've got the traction to use the added low end and your rotational mass
isn't making the additional gear pointless. The four link should help keep
the traction from being the limiting factor, and siamesed, no flywheel,
direct drive motors will have less rotational mass than bigger motor and
flywheel or torque converter setups. One good thing about the Ford 9", if
you set up a few pumpkins, they are relatively easy to swap, and the bone
yards are full of pumpkins (at least my favorite one is).
This reminds me of the jet vs. funny car matches they used to run. The
funny cars would accelerate much harder off the line and be half way down
the strip before the jets got moving fast enough to generate much thrust,
then the jets would come on and try to make up the lost time and catch them
at the end. The ET's weren't that much different, but the jets had a lot of
trap speed.
But what do I know, I've only been down the quarter maybe 10 times. My
successes were in autocross. I really want to build a twin motor electric
Lotus 7 and carry the flag in autocross.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light,and a Gear
Ratio Change
>
> Mike Willmon wrote
>>Gaining 60 ft times at some point seems an excercise in
>>futility when the trade off is much of your top end. Not that I would
>>know. But with maybe 30% more torque I'm going with a
>>3.25. I think I can get more area under the curve with a long gradual
>>rise
>>to a large top end, rather than a real short steep
>>hole shot with a flat acceleration with a somewhat lower top end. Just
>>educated guesing on my part based on some of your's, Rod's
>>and others comments.
>
> I agree with Mike here.
>
> I think the gains to be made in the Zombie should be focused on the top
> end
> and keep the higher gear ratio. Once the four-link is in place it should
> be
> a no-brainer.
>
> IMHO.
>
> John?
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~
>
>
> Roy LeMeur
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
> http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light, and a Gear Ratio Change
In a message dated 8/24/2007 6:28:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
This reminds me of the jet vs. funny car matches they used to run. The
funny cars would accelerate much harder off the line and be half way down
the strip before the jets got moving fast enough to generate much thrust,
then the jets would come on and try to make up the lost time and catch them
at the end. The ET's weren't that much different, but the jets had a lot of
trap speed.
But what do I know, I've only been down the quarter maybe 10 times. My
successes were in autocross. I really want to build a twin motor electric
Lotus 7 and carry the flag in autocross.
----------------------------------------------------------------
you are extremely observant and would make a great "spotter/tuner" at the
drag strip, want a job?
Jim L............ya, still the old guy.
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
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_______________________________________________
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In a message dated 8/24/2007 6:28:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
This reminds me of the jet vs. funny car matches they used to run. The
funny cars would accelerate much harder off the line and be half way down
the strip before the jets got moving fast enough to generate much thrust,
then the jets would come on and try to make up the lost time and catch them
at the end. The ET's weren't that much different, but the jets had a lot of
trap speed.
But what do I know, I've only been down the quarter maybe 10 times. My
successes were in autocross. I really want to build a twin motor electric
Lotus 7 and carry the flag in autocross.
----------------------------------------------------------------
you are extremely observant and would make a great "spotter/tuner" at the
drag strip, want a job?
Jim L............ya, still the old guy.
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
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Re: [EVDL] Heads Up vs Bracket Racing, the 'WIN' Light, and a Gear Ratio Change
Near Chicago? Haven't got time for a lot of travel.
Marty
>
> you are extremely observant and would make a great "spotter/tuner" at the
> drag strip, want a job?
>
>
> Jim L............ya, still the old guy.
>
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Near Chicago? Haven't got time for a lot of travel.
Marty
>
> you are extremely observant and would make a great "spotter/tuner" at the
> drag strip, want a job?
>
>
> Jim L............ya, still the old guy.
>
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