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Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

I tried again today to drive the S10 with the Honda eu2000 generator running
putting power through the pfc20 thats mounted on the truck. With a depleted
pack, full pack or anywhere in between the generator and Pfc. 20 work fine with
the truck at a standstill. The problem arises when The truck is in motion. The
generator hunts (rpm goes up and down) even in the hi rpm mode. This hunting
will happen even if I adjust the pfc20 to only use 1 amp or 10 amps, but hunts
a little less with more load on the generator. HELP!
Dennis Berube
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

Try switching "EcoThrottle" OFF as instructed in the manual.
That will stop it from automatically throttling back with low load.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

I tried again today to drive the S10 with the Honda eu2000 generator running

putting power through the pfc20 thats mounted on the truck. With a depleted
pack, full pack or anywhere in between the generator and Pfc. 20 work fine
with
the truck at a standstill. The problem arises when The truck is in motion.
The
generator hunts (rpm goes up and down) even in the hi rpm mode. This hunting

will happen even if I adjust the pfc20 to only use 1 amp or 10 amps, but
hunts
a little less with more load on the generator. HELP!

Dennis Berube
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

My theory would be that this being an "inverter generator", it's putting
out a Modified Sine wave.

MSWs do NOT work with SCR-based power controls. Actually few consumer
electronics have SCR-based power controls- dimmer switches use it, I had
a Weller soldering iron that used it, and a heat gun too.

If your charger uses SCRs and the EU2000 is a MSW, then it won't work.
Or isn't there an EU2000 and an EU2000i, the "i" being the "inverter
generator" model? Is that an inverter generator there or not?

The chargers are not really making the best use of inverter generator
power. Actually if you don't need a "boost" over 120VDC, then the
charger becomes really really simple, just a fullwave bridge rectifier
and a current-limited buck converter which isn't nearly as much
complexity. Isolation isn't necessary for these ungrounded
plastic-framed generators as far as I can see, which totally simplifies
the magnetics to not even a tenth of the cost and complexity.

Danny

----- Original Message -----
From: Myles Twete <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, August 27, 2007 0:28 am
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10
To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' <[email protected]>

> Try switching "EcoThrottle" OFF as instructed in the manual.
> That will stop it from automatically throttling back with low load.
> -Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> On Behalf
> Of [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:24 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10
>
> I tried again today to drive the S10 with the Honda eu2000
> generator running
>
> putting power through the pfc20 thats mounted on the truck. With a
> depleted
> pack, full pack or anywhere in between the generator and Pfc. 20
> work fine
> with
> the truck at a standstill. The problem arises when The truck is in
> motion.The
> generator hunts (rpm goes up and down) even in the hi rpm mode.
> This hunting
>
> will happen even if I adjust the pfc20 to only use 1 amp or 10
> amps, but
> hunts
> a little less with more load on the generator. HELP!
>
> Dennis Berube
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

In a message dated 8/26/2007 10:27:58 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> PFC20 range extender and S10
> Date:8/26/2007 10:27:58 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[email protected]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Try switching "EcoThrottle" OFF as instructed in the manual.
> That will stop it from automatically throttling back with low load.
> -Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
> **The EcoThrottle is off.The hunting is a lot faster than the Eco works.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
> Of [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:24 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10
>
> I tried again today to drive the S10 with the Honda eu2000 generator running
>
> putting power through the pfc20 thats mounted on the truck. With a depleted
> pack, full pack or anywhere in between the generator and Pfc. 20 work fine
> with
> the truck at a standstill. The problem arises when The truck is in motion.
> The
> generator hunts (rpm goes up and down) even in the hi rpm mode. This hunting
>
> will happen even if I adjust the pfc20 to only use 1 amp or 10 amps, but
> hunts
> a little less with more load on the generator. HELP!
>
> Dennis Berube
> __________________________________

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E

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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

In a message dated 8/27/2007 1:46:49 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> PFC20 range extender and S10
> Date:8/27/2007 1:46:49 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[email protected]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> CC:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> My theory would be that this being an "inverter generator", it's putting
> out a Modified Sine wave.
>
> MSWs do NOT work with SCR-based power controls. Actually few consumer
> electronics have SCR-based power controls- dimmer switches use it, I had
> a Weller soldering iron that used it, and a heat gun too.
>
> If your charger uses SCRs and the EU2000 is a MSW, then it won't work.
> Or isn't there an EU2000 and an EU2000i, the "i" being the "inverter
> generator" model? Is that an inverter generator there or not?
>
> The chargers are not really making the best use of inverter generator
> power. Actually if you don't need a "boost" over 120VDC, then the
> charger becomes really really simple, just a fullwave bridge rectifier
> and a current-limited buck converter which isn't nearly as much
> complexity. Isolation isn't necessary for these ungrounded
> plastic-framed generators as far as I can see, which totally simplifies
> the magnetics to not even a tenth of the cost and complexity.
>
> Danny
> **The honda is a eu2000i but I do not think the pfc uses
> SCRs.Looking at the limited print it is a 3 phase alternator. Thanks Dennis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Myles Twete <[email protected]>
> Date: Monday, August 27, 2007 0:28 am
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10
> To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List' <[email protected]>
>
> >Try switching "EcoThrottle" OFF as instructed in the manual.
> >That will stop it from automatically throttling back with low load.
> >-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> >On Behalf
> >Of [email protected]
> >Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:24 PM
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10
> >
> >I tried again today to drive the S10 with the Honda eu2000
> >generator running
> >
> >putting power through the pfc20 thats mounted on the truck. With a
> >depleted
> >pack, full pack or anywhere in between the generator and Pfc. 20
> >work fine
> >with
> >the truck at a standstill. The problem arises when The truck is in
> >motion.The
> >generator hunts (rpm goes up and down) even in the hi rpm mode.
> >This hunting
> >
> >will happen even if I adjust the pfc20 to only use 1 amp or 10
> >amps, but
> >hunts
> >a little less with more load on the generator. HELP!
> >
> > Dennis Berube
> >________________________________

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

Maybe the generator does not like being moved and hiccups
from everything moving around in and about it?
What happens if you have the generator in hour hands, started
(without or with a light load) and you move it or make a
180 deg turn with it?

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 5:06 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

In a message dated 8/26/2007 10:27:58 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [email protected] writes:
> PFC20 range extender and S10
> Date:8/26/2007 10:27:58 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[email protected] Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected] Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> Try switching "EcoThrottle" OFF as instructed in the manual.
> That will stop it from automatically throttling back with low load.
> -Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
> **The EcoThrottle is off.The hunting is a lot faster than the Eco works.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:24 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10
>
> I tried again today to drive the S10 with the Honda eu2000 generator
> running
>
> putting power through the pfc20 thats mounted on the truck. With a
> depleted pack, full pack or anywhere in between the generator and Pfc.
> 20 work fine with the truck at a standstill. The problem arises when
> The truck is in motion.
> The
> generator hunts (rpm goes up and down) even in the hi rpm mode. This
> hunting
>
> will happen even if I adjust the pfc20 to only use 1 amp or 10 amps,
> but hunts
> a little less with more load on the generator. HELP!
>
> Dennis Berube
> __________________________________

_______________________________________________
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72,624 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

[email protected] wrote:
> My theory would be that this being an "inverter generator", it's putting
> out a Modified Sine wave.
>
> MSWs do NOT work with SCR-based power controls. Actually few consumer
> electronics have SCR-based power controls- dimmer switches use it, I had
> a Weller soldering iron that used it, and a heat gun too.
>
Nope. The Honda (and Kipor) Inverter Generators put out very nice clean
sine wave power. My computer likes the power from my Kipor KGE3000i
generator, and does NOT like the power from my "regular" big generator.

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Click to expand...
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

In a message dated 8/27/2007 8:04:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:


Maybe the generator does not like being moved and hiccups
from everything moving around in and about it?
What happens if you have the generator in hour hands, started
(without or with a light load) and you move it or make a
180 deg turn with it?

-----------------------------

I would think that since the generator works fine when your not driving the
car, its a noise problem.

Jim L




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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

In a message dated 8/28/2007 2:51:40 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> 000/PFC20 range extender and S10
> Date:8/28/2007 2:51:40 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[email protected]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/27/2007 8:04:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
>
> Maybe the generator does not like being moved and hiccups
> from everything moving around in and about it?
> What happens if you have the generator in hour hands, started
> (without or with a light load) and you move it or make a
> 180 deg turn with it?
>
As soon as I touch the throttle leaving my garage even a 1/16
mph(estimate)the hunting starts. Dennis Berube
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

I'm having two lines of thought here....

1. Have you tried to run it with a load off the truck. A 'more normal' load like a bank of lights or a heater or some such? Maybe it is a defective unit and the truck has nothing to do with it.

2. I could see it hunting at a very low speed since your controller is at a very short duty cycle. It is tiny duration huge load spikes a with a long off time. As the controller approaches 100% duty cycle, the spikes will diminish and the generator will see a more level load and not have to constantly "adjust" for it. Even with Eco-mode turned off the governor will have to compensate for the "HUGE" load spikes. Maybe more capacitance is needed on the input to the controller or output of the charger??

--
Stay Charged!
Hump
I-5, Blossvale NY

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: [EVDL] Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10

In a message dated 8/28/2007 6:18:52 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
> Honda eu2000/PFC20 range extender and S10
> Date:8/28/2007 6:18:52 AM US Mountain Standard Time
> From:[email protected]
> Reply-to:[email protected]
> To:[email protected]
> Received from Internet:
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm having two lines of thought here....
>
> 1. Have you tried to run it with a load off the truck. A 'more normal' load
> like a bank of lights or a heater or some such? Maybe it is a defective unit
> and the truck has nothing to do with it.
> This is the 2nd eu2000i I have on board the truck.The 1st one got stolen
> from a home depot parking lot 3 weeks ago out of my big truck.Not likely 2 bad
> in a row.
> 2. I could see it hunting at a very low speed since your controller is at a
> very short duty cycle. It is tiny duration huge load spikes a with a long off
> time. As the controller approaches 100% duty cycle, the spikes will diminish
> and the generator will see a more level load and not have to constantly
> "adjust" for it. Even with Eco-mode turned off the governor will have to
> compensate for the "HUGE" load spikes. Maybe more capacitance is needed on the input
> to the controller or output of the charger??
> Remember I have a pfc20 that I can regulate current into.I have tried from
> about .5 amps all the way to where the pfc draws the output voltage from the
> gen.to 105vac.It hunts less when gen.is puting out its max.
> Dennis Berube
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> I-5, Blossvale NY

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