Re: [EVDL] leaf, 100 mile range
I've looked at several graphs of data, and the 100 mile range is just
pointless. The data is for the US, but we're one of the most
car-centric societies around. Here's how the logic breaks down:
* 50% of Americans who drive daily, drive less-than 25 miles a
day (80% drive 50 mpd or less!)
http://illinoisev.googlegroups.com/web/PersonalVehicleMilesDrivenDaily.j
pg
* Something like 75% of trips in vehicles are single-passenger
(ie, driver).
* The average vehicle in America seats 5 and weighs 2,000 or more
pounds.
2000 to deliver 200. Those are payload-to-delivery vehicle
numbers only a rocket
scientist could approve of!
(sorry, no pretty graph on these two -- anyone else got a graph
I could pretty up?)
* There are more Level 1 EV Charging stations installed out
there RIGHT NOW than
there are gas stations (or even Starbucks). A Level 1 charging
station is more
commonly known as a standard 3-prong electrical outlet
(120V/15A, preferably
GFCI and weather protected). They're about $2-3 at most
hardware stores.
(again, no graph -- this is just common knowledge)
* Vehicles have outnumbered licensed drivers to drive them in the
US for several decades.
This means most households own 2 or more vehicles. So when you
need the range or extra
people hauling capacity, drive your second or third car, the
energy guzzler/polluter.
So you look at the data, and you realize the need to go 100 miles at a
time is a made-up number: for 80% of the people it is unnecessary on an
everyday basis. These numbers are back in 1990, back before gas prices
spiked so it's highly likely the numbers are even more favorable. And
this easily gets us off foreign oil and drastically reduces our
environmental damage due to drilling/CO2 emissions, satisfying both the
right and the left, with the fun and the money savings of driving
electric satisfying the middle.
Further, the standard car is vastly oversized and TDB (too darn big, ie,
heavy). And that makes your battery pack TDB (too darn big) and
therefore TDE (too darn expensive) AND you can no longer charge on a
Level 1/three prong outlet in a reasonable amount of time, so you have
to charge at special charging stations. Then range anxiety sets in...
so you think you need a bigger pack. Which increases charging time,
adds more weight and the more weight you add, the further down the
spiral you go.
You establish Type 1 charging stations on every block, lot and parking
deck. There is very little infrastructure cost -- only thing in most
cities would require would be signage. This allows for opportunity
charging, more-than enough for a lightweighted, funstainably-sized EV
with a reasonable pack to easily charge from empty to full on 8 hours or
less (ie, a standard work day) on 120/15A circuit. But with opportunity
charging you would be topped off most of the time. And then you stop
worrying about 100 miles per charge (as shown above graph, it's
unnecessary, especially when combined with opportunity charging and
plenty of signage). You stop dragging around the vehicle weight to haul
4-5 people, but rather 1+1's or 2+2's (where the 'plus' is conceptually
like a rumble seat -- not comfy, but you can shove a kiddo back there
for short amounts of time -- 50 miles or so), otherwise it's
grocery/hardware hauling space. Obviously opportunity charging requires
battery chemistries that prefer to be full most of the time, not charged
fully, then drained completely.
And compared to city busses, SUV's and standard cars, lightweight
vehicles do almost no road damage, so you take those arguing about how
to apply road tax to electricity/electric vehicles and you tell 'em to
stick a plug in it.
But wait! American's want bigger, heavier! Ever seen the Mazda Miata?
They'll buy sexy, tiny. But not ugly econobox with no frills. Ford
found that out with their first world car, the Focus which they stripped
off the luxury items for the US market, and fixed it with the Fiesta, a
fully loaded small car.
These ideas are not new, they're just all glommed together, and once you
see 'em all together, hopefully a nice renewably fueled LED lightbulb
goes off... less IS more... REDUCE, reuse, recycle. There's a reason
why reduce comes first, and when it's applied to EV's, magic happens.
[email protected]
www.illinois.edu/goto/twike
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Willie McKemie
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 9:57 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 09:18:03AM -0400, Electric Blue auto convertions
I've looked at several graphs of data, and the 100 mile range is just
pointless. The data is for the US, but we're one of the most
car-centric societies around. Here's how the logic breaks down:
* 50% of Americans who drive daily, drive less-than 25 miles a
day (80% drive 50 mpd or less!)
http://illinoisev.googlegroups.com/web/PersonalVehicleMilesDrivenDaily.j
pg
* Something like 75% of trips in vehicles are single-passenger
(ie, driver).
* The average vehicle in America seats 5 and weighs 2,000 or more
pounds.
2000 to deliver 200. Those are payload-to-delivery vehicle
numbers only a rocket
scientist could approve of!
(sorry, no pretty graph on these two -- anyone else got a graph
I could pretty up?)
* There are more Level 1 EV Charging stations installed out
there RIGHT NOW than
there are gas stations (or even Starbucks). A Level 1 charging
station is more
commonly known as a standard 3-prong electrical outlet
(120V/15A, preferably
GFCI and weather protected). They're about $2-3 at most
hardware stores.
(again, no graph -- this is just common knowledge)
* Vehicles have outnumbered licensed drivers to drive them in the
US for several decades.
This means most households own 2 or more vehicles. So when you
need the range or extra
people hauling capacity, drive your second or third car, the
energy guzzler/polluter.
So you look at the data, and you realize the need to go 100 miles at a
time is a made-up number: for 80% of the people it is unnecessary on an
everyday basis. These numbers are back in 1990, back before gas prices
spiked so it's highly likely the numbers are even more favorable. And
this easily gets us off foreign oil and drastically reduces our
environmental damage due to drilling/CO2 emissions, satisfying both the
right and the left, with the fun and the money savings of driving
electric satisfying the middle.
Further, the standard car is vastly oversized and TDB (too darn big, ie,
heavy). And that makes your battery pack TDB (too darn big) and
therefore TDE (too darn expensive) AND you can no longer charge on a
Level 1/three prong outlet in a reasonable amount of time, so you have
to charge at special charging stations. Then range anxiety sets in...
so you think you need a bigger pack. Which increases charging time,
adds more weight and the more weight you add, the further down the
spiral you go.
You establish Type 1 charging stations on every block, lot and parking
deck. There is very little infrastructure cost -- only thing in most
cities would require would be signage. This allows for opportunity
charging, more-than enough for a lightweighted, funstainably-sized EV
with a reasonable pack to easily charge from empty to full on 8 hours or
less (ie, a standard work day) on 120/15A circuit. But with opportunity
charging you would be topped off most of the time. And then you stop
worrying about 100 miles per charge (as shown above graph, it's
unnecessary, especially when combined with opportunity charging and
plenty of signage). You stop dragging around the vehicle weight to haul
4-5 people, but rather 1+1's or 2+2's (where the 'plus' is conceptually
like a rumble seat -- not comfy, but you can shove a kiddo back there
for short amounts of time -- 50 miles or so), otherwise it's
grocery/hardware hauling space. Obviously opportunity charging requires
battery chemistries that prefer to be full most of the time, not charged
fully, then drained completely.
And compared to city busses, SUV's and standard cars, lightweight
vehicles do almost no road damage, so you take those arguing about how
to apply road tax to electricity/electric vehicles and you tell 'em to
stick a plug in it.
But wait! American's want bigger, heavier! Ever seen the Mazda Miata?
They'll buy sexy, tiny. But not ugly econobox with no frills. Ford
found that out with their first world car, the Focus which they stripped
off the luxury items for the US market, and fixed it with the Fiesta, a
fully loaded small car.
These ideas are not new, they're just all glommed together, and once you
see 'em all together, hopefully a nice renewably fueled LED lightbulb
goes off... less IS more... REDUCE, reuse, recycle. There's a reason
why reduce comes first, and when it's applied to EV's, magic happens.
[email protected]
www.illinois.edu/goto/twike
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Willie McKemie
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 9:57 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 09:18:03AM -0400, Electric Blue auto convertions
wrote:
> I.v heard from a very good source that the leaf is not cracked up to
be what its advertised to be,, 100 mile range?? sure, at 22 MPH and no
wind, and on a table flat road. at 50 MPH its drops off like falling off
a cliff ...So hear we go again, more teasing more .."its almost good"
and" by it and if you cant get 100 mile range your not driving it
right". The person that told me this ,asked for his deposit back after
asking then demanding many times on performance data on the car, Nissan
didnt want to give it to him, but did in the end . More of the "screw
you , we'll build what we want. and deliver any piece of shit we can"
attitude. BUT I was expecting this from them.. just another day at
manufacturing land
I'm in line for a Leaf. My middle name is either "Disaster" or
"Disappointment"; my birth certificate is smudged.
80-100 miles does seem optimistic for, what?, a 27 kwh pack. My 37kwh
pack gives me 100-120 miles; maybe 150 miles with very slow and careful
driving. I hoping the Leaf gets down around 200 wh/m while my Hyundai
gets 250-300.
What I'm looking for in the Leaf is reliability. And a network of
repair facilities. Maybe later, pack extensions.
http://evalbum.com/2314
--
Willie, ONWARD! Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Debian3.1/GNU/Linux system uptime 11 days 5 hours 52 minutes
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