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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Re: [EVDL] leaf, 100 mile range

The majority of street lights have an access panel at the bottom that is
just the right size for a 3-prong outlet. Some of the street lights
actually have a three-prong outlet on 'em, as do parking lot lights...

A small enough EV (eBike, electrified motorcycle, etc) is usually ok
pulling up onto the sidewalk, say at the Safeway (we were able to run
our EV's onto the National Mall and at the White House, so if we can
"Get away with that" post 9/11, then that should give you some
perspective of what you can do if you're nice and ask and chat someone
up...)


http://www.flickr.com/photos/electric-vehicles/5006737132/in/set-7215762
4992666870/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/electric-vehicles/5006738502/in/set-7215762
4992666870/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/electric-vehicles/5006739062/in/set-7215762
4992666870/#/photos/electric-vehicles/5006739062/



Vending machines are good indications of power... they conveniently glow
at night.

In my neighborhood, almost all the annoying front-yard lights (including
my own, which I leave burnt out as long as possible until the wife gets
annoyed) have outlets on 'em.

And yes, you can plug into it anytime... will probably hang an EV
charging station sign on it sometime soon...

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Chuck Hursch
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 4:33 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] leaf, 100 mile range

Outlets on the outsides of buildings? Here in the Bay Area, my
experience being Marin County in particular, there are virtually no
outlets. You may well find one here and there, but in general, forget
it. They aren't usually readily accessible, those that are there.
Let's see, Safeway in Corte Madera - they have one or two 120V outlets
on the front of the building, across the walk from the front parking
spaces. So at minimum, to run a cord across that heavily-used walkway,
you'd have to tape the cord down with a cord protector, assuming you
ever got permission (LOL there). Here at the apt. complex, my building
has no outlets on the outside, nothing, nada (I had to pay for the
installation of my outlet in the ceiling of my carport under the
building). I've had contractors looking for a source of electricity two

or three times plug into my ceiling outlet when the lockbox has been
open with the cord for the EV plugged in. They never asked. I've moved

them up to my deck outlet on the one or two occasions they needed to use

electricity. Over in the security bldg, there are some 120V outlets in
the carports under the building - I've never seen them used, although
they are live as far as I know (I plugged in my 12V charger to start my
mother's dead Saturn starter battery one time).

Chuck

Dennis Miles wrote:
> Hi,
> Heck I have seen numbers estimating the numbers of class I charging
> outlets as high as 9,000 per gas station, But that includes ones
inside
> houses so I only include it to get your attention. Here in Florida, my
15
> year old home has 3 outside outlets... (For X-mas lights?)
> The house I built in 1985 had 10 outside outlets, all 20 A 120 V. AC,
all
> GFCI protected on separate circuits. I really like the SPA disconnect
with
> GFCI and rain repellent box I displayed on this list for $125 last
month.
> And I am putting 16 of them into my school shop.
>
>
Rick Beebe <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Lee Hart wrote:
>>> Childress, Matthew wrote:
>>>>> * There are more Level 1 EV Charging stations installed out there
>>>>> RIGHT NOW than there are gas stations (or even Starbucks). A Level
>>>>> 1 charging station is more commonly known as a standard 3-prong
>>>>> electrical outlet (120V/15A...
>>> Rick Beebe wrote:
>>>> They might be common but they aren't necessarily publically
>>>> accessible,
>>> Where do you live? Here in Minnesota, or any other northern state,
these
>>> outdoor outlets are everywhere, and have been for decades. They are
>>> intended for plugging in block heaters to keep your ICE warm during
>>> subzero temperatures so it will start. Most homes, apartments, and
>>> businesses have them. They are conveniently located, and free for
use.
>> I'm from Maine and there were some, but not what I would call a
>> ubiquitous public charging infrastructure. Now I live in Connecticut
and
>> there are even fewer.
>>
>>> For at least 10 years, the NEC (National Electric Code) has required
>>> outdoor GFCI protected outlets in all new construction. In states
>>> without winter, they are still useful for electric lawnmowers,
Christmas
>>> lights, etc.
>> Yes, I have one on my house. With an 50' cord it'll reach the
driveway.
>> No, you can't use it. My previous abode was a condo. There was one
per
>> 4-unit building, also not particularly convenient to the driveway.
There
>> have been 'horror' stories posted here in the past about the
difficulty
>> that some people have had getting permission to use them or to have
new
>> ones put in.
>>
>> Note that I'm not arguing against this--there _are_ billions of
"level 1
>> charging stations" out there. I am saying that some of the arguments
>> that we EV proponents use to convince others that EVs should be
"easy"
>> don't necessarily hold up everywhere. Or for a bit of hyperbole, it's
>> ludicrous for anyone in this country to complain about drought as we
>> have trillions and trillions of gallons of water in lakes from coast
to
>> coast.
>>
>>>> in order to sell an EV you have to convince the buyer that they
>>>> won't get stuck somewhere.
>>> An EV doesn't suddenly stop like an ICE that runs out of gas.
Instead,
>>> it keeps getting slower and slower, giving you plenty of warning to
find
>>> a place to recharge. It can be inconvenient, but not nearly as
>>> inconvenient as running out of gas!
>> Sorry. That argument works fine for us pioneers. It doesn't hold a
bit
>> of water with, say, my mother who is NOT going to knock on someone's
>> door asking to plug her car in. And the slower-and-slower behavior is
>> much less obvious with lithium powered cars where the power will stay
>> fairly steady until near the end.
>>
>> Before the unwashed masses will buy EVs they have to be convinced
that
>> the car either has enough range to satisfy their worst-case local
travel
>> day OR that there are _visible_, easy-to-use, public charging
stations
>> along the way. We know that most people, once they take the plunge
(or
>> their neighbors do) will realize that their range fears were
unfounded.
>> But until then, those fears are a real impediment to EV sales. And
>> saying that the 7-11 on Main Street has an outlet behind the Coke
>> machine isn't going to assuage them.
>>
>>>> And if they're not installed, trenching
>>>> and conduits and wiring are not cheap.
>>> True; but nothing is cheap any more. The key point is that it's not
a
>>> back-breaking expense, and is a whale of a lot cheaper than a
special EV
>>> charging station with special boxes and outlets.
>> I was responding to Matthew's statment that they cost $3 (and the
>> implication that it's a no-brainer to add more as needed).
>>
>>>> it's nowhere near enough if lots of people start buying EVs.
>>> The number of charging outlets is automatically going to change to
suit
>>> the number of EVs. As more EVs go on the road, more charging outlets
>>> will be installed. You can't expect someone to install millions of
>>> charging stations if there are only a few thousand EVs to use them.
>> Of course. And I'm all for a campaign for people to spend $10 for an
"EV
>> Charging Station" sign for every accessible outdoor outlet they have.
>> That's a cheap start. The two reasons for special charging station
are
>> 1) someone can make money selling them and b) a business hosting them
>> might still be able to afford their liability insurance if they're
safer
>> than a regular plug.
>>
>>> All you really need is *one* charging station, somewhere near where
you
>>> park your car. Adding more is nice; but not mandatory.
>> There are a bunch of parking structures associated with my place of
>> employment but only 2 charging stations. Both are occupied most days.
>> Sucks to be #3.
>>
>> --Rick
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>


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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Re: [EVDL] leaf, 100 mile range

Does anyone carry one of those Edison screw to regular outlet converters ?
;)
If you're really stuck and spot somewhere with an exposed light fixture ....
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Re: [EVDL] leaf, 100 mile range

Matthew wrote:

> The majority of street lights have an access panel at the bottom that is
> just the right size for a 3-prong outlet.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't most streetlights powered by 277
volts?

I'd also expect the wiring to have been designed for the streetlight load,
not for EV charging. It's all well and good to say "only charge during
daylight hours," but you just KNOW someone isn't going to do that. They'd
have to have a timer to shut the receptacle off when the streetlights were
in use. Some poor EV driver who parked just before dusk would come back to
his car, expecting it to be full, and get an unpleasant surprise.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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