Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
Well...I suppose if you had the space used for the class 8 truck assembly
shown here:
http://www.hi-z.com/Hi-Z.Brochure.2006.pdf
you could get about 70amps...and ditch your alternator once your exhaust is
warmed up.
Looks like you are right...the best bet is to stick with an alternator
unless minor parasitic charging is good enough.
--Randall (rank amateur and knucklehead)
Charlotte, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
> Peltier devices use effect nr 2, in that it acts as a heat pump.
> Send a current through a Peltier and it will start pumping
> heat from one side to the other. Reverse the current and the
> hot and cold side reverse as well.
> That effect is used in portable coolers, where you can keep
> cans (relatively) cool while plugged into your car 12V outlet
> and you can even switch it to heating, which usually has a
> poor effect, but nevertheless these are amazing devices
> with efficiency well above 100%.
>
> Before you go off on a rant about preservation of energy,
> with efficiency, I mean that the output of heat is larger
> than the amount of energy put in the device, because of
> the pumping action. If the difference in temp between the
> two sides is not too great, this device can easily deliver
> 50W of heat while only consuming 10W of electricity, by
> pumping 40W of heat from ambient.
>
> To generate electricity with them is possible, but very
> inefficient, due to the large losses in heating and
> cooling the two sides.
> If you already have a large heat generator and plenty of
> cool ambient, like in a driving ICE car, then you can
> create some electricity the way you described, but
> running an alternator is much cheaper and more efficient.
> One place where I have seen the Peltier find some kind of
> interesting application is a gas-powered night lamp, where
> the excess heat creates a little electricity to power a
> radio.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:36 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
>
> Danny said "Peltiers are thermocouples."
>
> Here is a clarification from http://www.its.org/node/3767
>
> Effect 1 is what I was refering to as thermocouple. The idea I had was to
> take strips of iron and copper and create a long accorian folded isolated
> thermopile that mounted on the exhaust manifold. Wide strips for current
> electrically in series for a higher voltage.
>
> Effect # 3 is what I refer to as a peltier, in that it takes 2
> complimentary junctions of special materials.
>
>
> International Thermoelectric Society.
>
> Whilst it is generally accepted that there are only three thermoelectric
> effects, it is in fact possible to describe four.
>
> The four thermoelectric effects, listed in chronological order of their
> discovery, are:
>
> Effect 1 - If two different conductors are joined and the two junctions
> are maintained at different temperatures, an electromotive force is
> developed in the circuit.
>
> Effect 2 - If a current flows in a circuit consisting of two different
> conductors then one of the junctions is heated and the other is cooled.
>
> Effect 3 - When a temperature difference exists between two points in a
> single electrical conductor an electrical potential is established between
> the points.
>
> Effect 4 - If a current passes through a conductor in which a temperature
> gradient exists, this current causes a flow of heat from one part to the
> other.
>
> These effects are very closely related. Indeed, each of them represents a
> reversible effect whereby effects 1 and 2 are the reverse of each other,
> and effects 3 and 4 are similarly the reverse of each other.
>
> Thomas Johann Seebeck first identified Effect 1 in 1821. He spent the rest
> of his scientific career measuring the size of this effect for different
> pairs of dissimilar conductors in contact with each other.
> Seebeck died in 1831.
>
> In 1834 Jean Charles Athanase Peltier first identified Effect 2, the
> reverse of Effect 1. Peltier died in 1845.
>
> Significantly later (around 1854-1855), William Thomson first deduced and
> demonstrated BOTH of the effects numbered 3 and 4.
>
> Starling and Woodall partly describe Thomson's contribution thus (from
> "Physics", Longmans, 1950):
>
> <snip>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
Well...I suppose if you had the space used for the class 8 truck assembly
shown here:
http://www.hi-z.com/Hi-Z.Brochure.2006.pdf
you could get about 70amps...and ditch your alternator once your exhaust is
warmed up.
Looks like you are right...the best bet is to stick with an alternator unless minor parasitic charging is good enough.
--Randall (rank amateur and knucklehead)
Charlotte, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
> Peltier devices use effect nr 2, in that it acts as a heat pump.
> Send a current through a Peltier and it will start pumping
> heat from one side to the other. Reverse the current and the
> hot and cold side reverse as well.
> That effect is used in portable coolers, where you can keep
> cans (relatively) cool while plugged into your car 12V outlet
> and you can even switch it to heating, which usually has a
> poor effect, but nevertheless these are amazing devices
> with efficiency well above 100%.
>
> Before you go off on a rant about preservation of energy,
> with efficiency, I mean that the output of heat is larger
> than the amount of energy put in the device, because of
> the pumping action. If the difference in temp between the
> two sides is not too great, this device can easily deliver
> 50W of heat while only consuming 10W of electricity, by
> pumping 40W of heat from ambient.
>
> To generate electricity with them is possible, but very
> inefficient, due to the large losses in heating and
> cooling the two sides.
> If you already have a large heat generator and plenty of
> cool ambient, like in a driving ICE car, then you can
> create some electricity the way you described, but
> running an alternator is much cheaper and more efficient.
> One place where I have seen the Peltier find some kind of
> interesting application is a gas-powered night lamp, where
> the excess heat creates a little electricity to power a
> radio.
>
> Regards,
>
> Cor van de Water
> Systems Architect
> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
> Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
> Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
> Fax: +1 408 731 3675 eFAX: +31-87-784-1130
> Second Life: www.secondlife.com/?u=3b42cb3f4ae249319edb487991c30acb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 7:36 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Magnetic Shock Absorber & EV
>
> Danny said "Peltiers are thermocouples."
>
> Here is a clarification from http://www.its.org/node/3767
>
> Effect 1 is what I was refering to as thermocouple. The idea I had was to
> take strips of iron and copper and create a long accorian folded isolated
> thermopile that mounted on the exhaust manifold. Wide strips for current
> electrically in series for a higher voltage.
>
> Effect # 3 is what I refer to as a peltier, in that it takes 2
> complimentary junctions of special materials.
>
>
> International Thermoelectric Society.
>
> Whilst it is generally accepted that there are only three thermoelectric
> effects, it is in fact possible to describe four.
>
> The four thermoelectric effects, listed in chronological order of their
> discovery, are:
>
> Effect 1 - If two different conductors are joined and the two junctions
> are maintained at different temperatures, an electromotive force is
> developed in the circuit.
>
> Effect 2 - If a current flows in a circuit consisting of two different
> conductors then one of the junctions is heated and the other is cooled.
>
> Effect 3 - When a temperature difference exists between two points in a
> single electrical conductor an electrical potential is established between
> the points.
>
> Effect 4 - If a current passes through a conductor in which a temperature
> gradient exists, this current causes a flow of heat from one part to the
> other.
>
> These effects are very closely related. Indeed, each of them represents a
> reversible effect whereby effects 1 and 2 are the reverse of each other,
> and effects 3 and 4 are similarly the reverse of each other.
>
> Thomas Johann Seebeck first identified Effect 1 in 1821. He spent the rest
> of his scientific career measuring the size of this effect for different
> pairs of dissimilar conductors in contact with each other.
> Seebeck died in 1831.
>
> In 1834 Jean Charles Athanase Peltier first identified Effect 2, the
> reverse of Effect 1. Peltier died in 1845.
>
> Significantly later (around 1854-1855), William Thomson first deduced and
> demonstrated BOTH of the effects numbered 3 and 4.
>
> Starling and Woodall partly describe Thomson's contribution thus (from
> "Physics", Longmans, 1950):
>
> <snip>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
