[EVDL List]

Re: [EVDL] No ICE in 10 Years? - stop thread

I think we should stop this thread here and return to discussing EVs.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Geoff Pullinger
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 6:19 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] No ICE in 10 Years?

In my opinion the problem with motor fuel taxes is that they don't come
anywhere near to covering the full cost of taking the oil out of the
ground
- let alone maintaining the transportation infrastructure required for
motor vehicles. Ultimately we (and our children's children's children)
are paying the cost through income taxes etc. Bringing oil to the US is
becoming a very expensive process for our government when you calculate
the costs of our world military presence which must be maintained to
ensure the flow of oil. A lot of our oil comes from Canada where they
are digging up 'oil sands' to meet the demand. There is a very big
environmental impact for this process. When you think about the things
you don't pay for at the pump it's almost like the gas is free!

Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:

> Eventually the politicians are going to figure it out, Hopefully they

> jack up gas fuel tax to about $5 per gallon and push the driving
> population into Electrics, then in 2035 the license tag fee will jump
> from $40 to $200 and sales tax may be increased 2% for highway
improvement.
> We passed a 1% increase in sales tax in my county, Polk, FL. back

> in
> 2001 (and the tourists contribute to it also...) We have greatly
> improved roads and parks with those funds in the past nine years.
> There are no HOLES in our streets. All arteries are widened, and
> resurfaced, The parks are better maintained clean, neat, beautiful
> foliage and paved parking and drives, Safe running, walking, and
> bicycling paths too. Athletic fields, and Play grounds.
> Regards,
> *Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
> *www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
> EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
> *
> Phone (863) 944 - 9913
> Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM
> Volt and Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011.

> However only 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for
> Nice Newer Conversions is predicted!
> ==================================================================
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Lee Hart <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> > On 9/29/2010 10:04 PM, John wrote:
> > > Different roads have different funding, but gas taxes don't come
> > > close to fully funding road maintenance, never mind real repairs
> > > or improvements... It's a problem because much of our
> > > transportation infrastructure is falling into disrepair. The
> > > Minnesota bridge collapse as a glaring example.
> >
> > I guess an obvious solution (from an EV'ers point of view) is to
> > raise gas taxes to fully cover road repair, maintenance, and
construction.
> > This gets the roads and bridges fixed, and takes the load off taxes
> > (cuts deficits, gives people the tax cut they want). It also raises
> > gas prices, providing a powerful incentive to switch to EVs.
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
> > 814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
> > Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
> > leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> > Cohen
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
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[EVDL List]

Re: [EVDL] No ICE in 10 Years? - stop thread

Ok, let's have a discussion about the IDEAL way that as EV owners we'd
like to setup the system to allow us to pay road taxes. They ARE
coming... small local governments are extremely sensitive, since most of
them are paying out of their general funds for roads as the current
levels of gas taxes aren't even coming close to covering it.

Further, once you start talking Vehicle 2 Grid, combined with generating
green power at your home/business, then I solidly believe that you
should get the GREEN rate from whomever is drawing down your
power/batteries if you're a green producer. Perhaps a bonus as
batteries are a consumable resource. While I'm a HUGE proponent of NEMA
5-20 infrastructure (aka, the three-prong outlet that exists almost
everywhere) V2G requires a plug capable of two-way communication
(Jplug), and paying the green producer requires an identification and
billing system and THAT means the potential (and therefore assured)
taxes. It also means the smart EV owner will just charge from home if
this is the methodology of how enforcement is handled, so it won't work.
It also fails as EV's, like gasoline/gas hybrids become more efficient
and require less energy.

We can wait for it to come (most states boilerplate the legislation from
another state, which means if one state puts together a piss-poor law,
it's highly likely the rest of us gets stuck with it -- Neighborhood
Vehicle laws being a good example, another being Maine's autocycle
legislation -- Illinois copied Wisconsin's NEV law) or we can look and
find something outside the box -- outside the US to use as our model.
Germany and Switzerland are typically good places to start, I'll ask
Martin at FINE Mobile to re-explain it to me...

The logical solution would be to tie road repair to those that do the
most damage: If we attach the road tax to Gross Vehicle Weight, then
it's possible an unscrupulous person could add to their pack
after-the-fact. This is something well within the realm of the average
person on THIS list, but not the average person. The other part to the
equation of road damage is numbers of miles driven, but this is already
broken with the current system -- with the advent of high MPG vehicles
like the Prius, the gas tax has largely already become separated from
miles driven (damaging roads) even for gas vehicles. You could of
course require odometer readings, but those, like pack size could be
altered.

This is not an idle thought or hypothetical exercise: the gas tax is
precisely why the men in black suits and badges show up at your door if
you make your own biodiesel. This has happened, not far from where I
live, to a gentleman of almost 80 just trying to do his part to get off
foreign oil and having the audacity to aid and abet others to do so as
well:
http://www.herald-review.com/news/local/article_5dae2327-a3cb-5bba-ac4c-
14dac3b83327.html

[email protected] "You're not paranoid if they're really out to get you" Childress

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Cor van de Water
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 9:49 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] No ICE in 10 Years? - stop thread

I think we should stop this thread here and return to discussing EVs.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Director HW & Systems Architecture Group
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [email protected]
Tel: +1 408 383 7626 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 XoIP: +31877841130

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Geoff Pullinger
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2010 6:19 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] No ICE in 10 Years?

In my opinion the problem with motor fuel taxes is that they don't come
anywhere near to covering the full cost of taking the oil out of the
ground
- let alone maintaining the transportation infrastructure required for
motor vehicles. Ultimately we (and our children's children's children)
are paying the cost through income taxes etc. Bringing oil to the US is
becoming a very expensive process for our government when you calculate
the costs of our world military presence which must be maintained to
ensure the flow of oil. A lot of our oil comes from Canada where they
are digging up 'oil sands' to meet the demand. There is a very big
environmental impact for this process. When you think about the things
you don't pay for at the pump it's almost like the gas is free!

Dennis Miles <[email protected]> wrote:

> Eventually the politicians are going to figure it out, Hopefully they

> jack up gas fuel tax to about $5 per gallon and push the driving
> population into Electrics, then in 2035 the license tag fee will jump
> from $40 to $200 and sales tax may be increased 2% for highway
improvement.
> We passed a 1% increase in sales tax in my county, Polk, FL. back

> in
> 2001 (and the tourists contribute to it also...) We have greatly
> improved roads and parks with those funds in the past nine years.
> There are no HOLES in our streets. All arteries are widened, and
> resurfaced, The parks are better maintained clean, neat, beautiful
> foliage and paved parking and drives, Safe running, walking, and
> bicycling paths too. Athletic fields, and Play grounds.
> Regards,
> *Dennis Lee Miles* (Director) *E.V.T.I. inc*.
> *www.E-V-T-I-Inc.COM <http://www.e-v-t-i-inc.com/> *(Adviser)*
> EVTI-EVAEducation Chapter
> *
> Phone (863) 944 - 9913
> Initial demand (computed by extrapolating the reservations for GM
> Volt and Nissan Leaf,) shall exceed 200,000 vehicles in 2010 and 2011.

> However only 50,000 vehicles will be marketed, so a LARGE demand for
> Nice Newer Conversions is predicted!
> ==================================================================
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Lee Hart <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> > On 9/29/2010 10:04 PM, John wrote:
> > > Different roads have different funding, but gas taxes don't come
> > > close to fully funding road maintenance, never mind real repairs
> > > or improvements... It's a problem because much of our
> > > transportation infrastructure is falling into disrepair. The
> > > Minnesota bridge collapse as a glaring example.
> >
> > I guess an obvious solution (from an EV'ers point of view) is to
> > raise gas taxes to fully cover road repair, maintenance, and
construction.
> > This gets the roads and bridges fixed, and takes the load off taxes
> > (cuts deficits, gives people the tax cut they want). It also raises
> > gas prices, providing a powerful incentive to switch to EVs.
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
> > 814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
> > Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
> > leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
> > Cohen
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
> scrubbed...
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> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/private/ev/attachments/20100930/5f2fce76
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> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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>
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_______________________________________________
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| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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_______________________________________________
| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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| OTHER HELP: http://evdl.org/help/
| OPTIONS: http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev