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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Re: [EVDL] NOT A HOAX!! Re: How to spot a hoax or someone's trying to make money.

In satellite comms, it is a fact that at certain
frequencies water inhibits transmission. If this
water is in a confined space, like a waveguide, it
will cause severe arcing (which usually is termed as
reflected power) and leaves marks similar to plasma
burns. Here are the frequencies that regular H2O
interrupts transmission as taken from a satcom book.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/slodown27/Frequencyandatmosphericeffects.jpg

It is quite possible that hydrogen is separated out if
salt water is used. That frequency is not known
because it would not be something that would be tried
in the communication world. This is because moisture
is removed and is bad for equipment and blocks comms.
Also who would put salt water in their equipment?

In the instance of this experiment, to get the
hydrogen out requires massive power perhaps more than
what is recieved in terms of the Hydrogen energy. But
it is still interesting as a faster means of
harvesting. Then again you can also do the aluminum
electrode trick to separate out hydrogen without
having to send power thru a twt or klystron or however
the inventor tuned to the frequency. Whatever he used
it is not overunity but a different way to get a
chemical reaction with lots of power needed to get
there and keep it going- i.e. waste.

--- Peter VanDerWal wrote:

> I seriously doubt they are getting more energy out
> than they are putting
> in, but the burning "salt water" appears to be FACT
> not fiction.
>
> Rustum Roy is actually on the board at Penn State
> University, there is a
> link on the Penn state website to Dr Roy's website.
> That website has a
> link to a video showing the Hydrogen burning.
>
> I'm quite certain that they aren't getting any over
> unity reaction here,
> but they are using radio waves to separate hydrogen
> from salt water and
> then igniting the hydrogen.
>
> > Below is what sounds like the answer to our
> prayers. However it may be a
> > hoax or a lie designed to filtch investors. This
> kind of free or amazing
> > energy source comes up every once in a while on
> this list so the below
> > article is a textbook example of what I call
> feeding the pigeons. We all
> > are the pigeons. One tip off is time and money
> will be needed to prove
> > the
> > process. The other is the question of weather the
> radio frequency power
> > input is offset by the power output of the flame
> of (chuckle) burning salt
> > water. If you see something like this below turn
> on your bs detector. No
> > offense to Remy or the ET list. He is just
> passing along information from
> > many sources. He lets you make the decision as to
> the truth of the
> > articles. In the past EV list members have
> ferreted out lies. So keep
> > your
> > money in your pocket and make sure devices or
> other methods of fuel are
> > proven before investing. Lawrence Rhodes....
> >
> > Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so
> > Posted by: "Remy Chevalier"
> [email protected]
> > cleannewworld
> > Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:20 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so
> > Sunday, September 09, 2007
> > By David Templeton, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
> >
> > http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07252/815920-85.stm
> >
> > For obvious reasons, scientists long have thought
> that salt water couldn't
> > be burned.
> >
> > So when an Erie man announced he'd ignited salt
> water with the
> > radio-frequency generator he'd invented, some
> thought it a was a hoax.
> >
> > John Kanzius, a Washington County native, tried to
> desalinate seawater
> > with
> > a generator he developed to treat cancer, and it
> caused a flash in the
> > test
> > tube.
> >
> > Within days, he had the salt water in the test
> tube burning like a candle,
> > as long as it was exposed to radio frequencies.
> >
> > His discovery has spawned scientific interest in
> using the world's most
> > abundant substance as clean fuel, among other
> uses.
> >
> > Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, held
> a demonstration last
> > week
> > at the university's Materials Research Laboratory
> in State College, to
> > confirm what he'd witnessed weeks before in an
> Erie lab.
> >
> > "It's true, it works," Dr. Roy said. "Everyone
> told me, 'Rustum, don't be
> > fooled. He put electrodes in there.' "
> >
> > But there are no electrodes and no gimmicks, he
> said.
> >
> > Dr. Roy said the salt water isn't burning per se,
> despite appearances. The
> > radio frequency actually weakens bonds holding
> together the constituents
> > of
> > salt water -- sodium chloride, hydrogen and oxygen
> -- and releases the
> > hydrogen, which, once ignited, burns continuously
> when exposed to the RF
> > energy field. Mr. Kanzius said an independent
> source measured the flame's
> > temperature, which exceeds 3,000 degrees
> Fahrenheit, reflecting an
> > enormous
> > energy output.
> >
> > As such, Dr. Roy, a founding member of the
> Materials Research Laboratory
> > and
> > expert in water structure, said Mr. Kanzius'
> discovery represents "the
> > most
> > remarkable in water science in 100 years."
> >
> > But researching its potential will take time and
> money, he said. One
> > immediate question is energy efficiency: The
> energy the RF generator uses
> > vs. the energy output from burning hydrogen.
> >
> > Dr. Roy said he's scheduled to meet tomorrow with
> U.S. Department of
> > Energy
> > and Department of Defense officials in Washington
> to discuss the discovery
> > and seek research funding.
> >
> > Mr. Kanzius said he powered a Stirling, or hot
> air, engine with salt
> > water.
> > But whether the system can power a car or be used
> as an efficient fuel
> > will
> > depend on research results.
> >
> > "We will get our ideas together and check this out
> and see where it
> > leads,"
> > Dr. Roy said. "The potential is huge.
> >
> > "In the life sciences, the role of water is
> infinite, and this guy is
> > doing
> > something new in using the most important and most
> abundant material on
> > the
> > face of the earth."
> > Mr. Kanzius' discovery was an accident.
> >
> > He developed the RF generator as a novel cancer
> treatment. His research in
> > targeting cancer cells with metallic nanoparticles
> then destroying them
> > with
> > radio-frequency is proceeding at the University of
> Pittsburgh Medical
> > Center
> > and at the University of Texas' MD Anderson Cancer
> Center in Houston.
> >
> > Manuscripts updating the cancer research are in
> preparation for
> > publication
> > in coming months, Mr. Kanzius said.
> >
> > While Mr. Kanzius was demonstrating how his
> generator heated
> > nanoparticles,
> > someone noted condensation inside the test tube
> and suggested he try using
> > his equipment to desalinate water.
> >
> > So, Mr. Kanzius said, he put sea water in a test
> tube, then trained his
> > machine on it, producing an unexpected spark. In
> time he and laboratory
> > owners struck a match and ignited the water, which
> continued burning as
> > long
> > as it remained in the radio-frequency field.
> >
> > During several trials, heat from burning hydrogen
> grew hot enough to melt
> > the test tube, he said. Dr. Roy's tests on the
> machine last week provided
> > further evidence that the process is releasing and
> burning hydrogen from
> > the
> > water. Tests on different water solutions and
> concentrations produced
> > various temperatures and flame colors.
> >
> > "This is the most abundant element in the world.
> It
=== message truncated ===




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Registered
Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Re: [EVDL] NOT A HOAX!! Re: How to spot a hoax or someone's trying to make money.

The video shows some sort of flame. There is nothing proving that the
salt water is burning. It would be a trivial matter to add clear
chemicals to make it burn.

In any case, we can already break water into H2 and O2 with electrolysis
with decent efficiency (depends on process used). There's no point to
using a lot of electricity to make a little flame on site, the
electricity could drive motors with many times the effectiveness. If it
was more efficient than electrolysis and the H2 could be extracted
without burning for storage, it would have some uses. Seems unlikely,
making RF energy from electricity alone is not an extremely high
efficiency process.

BTW, people have made fun plasmoids in your standard home microwave
simply by putting a match in there that was just blown out and still
smoldering- the microwave energy turns the smoke into a glowing,
animated plasma. Lots of neat net videos. There's other fantastic
tricks that can be done with cut grapes and such. Yet despite being
flashy, it doesn't constitute a power source.

Danny

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:26 pm
Subject: [EVDL] NOT A HOAX!! Re: How to spot a hoax or someone's trying
to make money.
To: Lawrence Rhodes <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle
Discussion List <[email protected]>

> I seriously doubt they are getting more energy out than they are
> puttingin, but the burning "salt water" appears to be FACT not
> fiction.
> Rustum Roy is actually on the board at Penn State University, there
> is a
> link on the Penn state website to Dr Roy's website. That website
> has a
> link to a video showing the Hydrogen burning.
>
> I'm quite certain that they aren't getting any over unity reaction
> here,but they are using radio waves to separate hydrogen from salt
> water and
> then igniting the hydrogen.
>
> > Below is what sounds like the answer to our prayers. However it
> may be a
> > hoax or a lie designed to filtch investors. This kind of free or
> amazing> energy source comes up every once in a while on this list
> so the below
> > article is a textbook example of what I call feeding the pigeons.
> We all
> > are the pigeons. One tip off is time and money will be needed to
> prove> the
> > process. The other is the question of weather the radio
> frequency power
> > input is offset by the power output of the flame of (chuckle)
> burning salt
> > water. If you see something like this below turn on your bs
> detector. No
> > offense to Remy or the ET list. He is just passing along
> information from
> > many sources. He lets you make the decision as to the truth of the
> > articles. In the past EV list members have ferreted out lies.
> So keep
> > your
> > money in your pocket and make sure devices or other methods of
> fuel are
> > proven before investing. Lawrence Rhodes....
> >
> > Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so
> > Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [email protected]
> > cleannewworld
> > Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:20 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so
> > Sunday, September 09, 2007
> > By David Templeton, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
> >
> > http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07252/815920-85.stm
> >
> > For obvious reasons, scientists long have thought that salt water
> couldn't> be burned.
> >
> > So when an Erie man announced he'd ignited salt water with the
> > radio-frequency generator he'd invented, some thought it a was a
> hoax.>
> > John Kanzius, a Washington County native, tried to desalinate
> seawater> with
> > a generator he developed to treat cancer, and it caused a flash
> in the
> > test
> > tube.
> >
> > Within days, he had the salt water in the test tube burning like
> a candle,
> > as long as it was exposed to radio frequencies.
> >
> > His discovery has spawned scientific interest in using the
> world's most
> > abundant substance as clean fuel, among other uses.
> >
> > Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, held a demonstration
> last> week
> > at the university's Materials Research Laboratory in State
> College, to
> > confirm what he'd witnessed weeks before in an Erie lab.
> >
> > "It's true, it works," Dr. Roy said. "Everyone told me, 'Rustum,
> don't be
> > fooled. He put electrodes in there.' "
> >
> > But there are no electrodes and no gimmicks, he said.
> >
> > Dr. Roy said the salt water isn't burning per se, despite
> appearances. The
> > radio frequency actually weakens bonds holding together the
> constituents> of
> > salt water -- sodium chloride, hydrogen and oxygen -- and
> releases the
> > hydrogen, which, once ignited, burns continuously when exposed to
> the RF
> > energy field. Mr. Kanzius said an independent source measured the
> flame's> temperature, which exceeds 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit,
> reflecting an
> > enormous
> > energy output.
> >
> > As such, Dr. Roy, a founding member of the Materials Research
> Laboratory> and
> > expert in water structure, said Mr. Kanzius' discovery represents
> "the> most
> > remarkable in water science in 100 years."
> >
> > But researching its potential will take time and money, he said. One
> > immediate question is energy efficiency: The energy the RF
> generator uses
> > vs. the energy output from burning hydrogen.
> >
> > Dr. Roy said he's scheduled to meet tomorrow with U.S. Department of
> > Energy
> > and Department of Defense officials in Washington to discuss the
> discovery> and seek research funding.
> >
> > Mr. Kanzius said he powered a Stirling, or hot air, engine with salt
> > water.
> > But whether the system can power a car or be used as an efficient
> fuel> will
> > depend on research results.
> >
> > "We will get our ideas together and check this out and see where it
> > leads,"
> > Dr. Roy said. "The potential is huge.
> >
> > "In the life sciences, the role of water is infinite, and this
> guy is
> > doing
> > something new in using the most important and most abundant
> material on
> > the
> > face of the earth."
> > Mr. Kanzius' discovery was an accident.
> >
> > He developed the RF generator as a novel cancer treatment. His
> research in
> > targeting cancer cells with metallic nanoparticles then
> destroying them
> > with
> > radio-frequency is proceeding at the University of Pittsburgh
> Medical> Center
> > and at the University of Texas' MD Anderson Cancer Center in
> Houston.>
> > Manuscripts updating the cancer research are in preparation for
> > publication
> > in coming months, Mr. Kanzius said.
> >
> > While Mr. Kanzius was demonstrating how his generator heated
> > nanoparticles,
> > someone noted condensation inside the test tube and suggested he
> try using
> > his equipment to desalinate water.
> >
> > So, Mr. Kanzius said, he put sea water in a test tube, then
> trained his
> > machine on it, producing an unexpected spark. In time he and
> laboratory> owners struck a match and ignited the water, which
> continued burning as
> > long
> > as it remained in the radio-frequency field.
> >
> > During several trials, heat from burning hydrogen grew hot enough
> to melt
> > the test tube, he said. Dr. Roy's tests on the machine last week
> provided> further evidence that the process is releasing and
> burning hydrogen from
> > the
> > water. Tests on different water solutions and concentrations
> produced> various temperatures and flame colors.
> >
> > "This is the most abundant element in the world. It is
> everywhere," Dr.
> > Roy
> > said of salt water. "Seeing it burn gives me chills."
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
> longlegalistic signature is void.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>

_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Re: [EVDL] NOT A HOAX!! Re: How to spot a hoax or someone's trying to make money.

This was just on the national news as well.

It is not merely an internet hoax.


[email protected] wrote:
> The video shows some sort of flame. There is nothing proving that the
> salt water is burning. It would be a trivial matter to add clear
> chemicals to make it burn.
>
> In any case, we can already break water into H2 and O2 with
> electrolysis
> with decent efficiency (depends on process used). There's no point to
> using a lot of electricity to make a little flame on site, the
> electricity could drive motors with many times the effectiveness. If
> it
> was more efficient than electrolysis and the H2 could be extracted
> without burning for storage, it would have some uses. Seems unlikely,
> making RF energy from electricity alone is not an extremely high
> efficiency process.
>
> BTW, people have made fun plasmoids in your standard home microwave
> simply by putting a match in there that was just blown out and still
> smoldering- the microwave energy turns the smoke into a glowing,
> animated plasma. Lots of neat net videos. There's other fantastic
> tricks that can be done with cut grapes and such. Yet despite being
> flashy, it doesn't constitute a power source.
>
> Danny
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]>
> Date: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:26 pm
> Subject: [EVDL] NOT A HOAX!! Re: How to spot a hoax or someone's trying
> to make money.
> To: Lawrence Rhodes <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle
> Discussion List <[email protected]>
>
>> I seriously doubt they are getting more energy out than they are
>> puttingin, but the burning "salt water" appears to be FACT not
>> fiction.
>> Rustum Roy is actually on the board at Penn State University, there
>> is a
>> link on the Penn state website to Dr Roy's website. That website
>> has a
>> link to a video showing the Hydrogen burning.
>>
>> I'm quite certain that they aren't getting any over unity reaction
>> here,but they are using radio waves to separate hydrogen from salt
>> water and
>> then igniting the hydrogen.
>>
>> > Below is what sounds like the answer to our prayers. However it
>> may be a
>> > hoax or a lie designed to filtch investors. This kind of free or
>> amazing> energy source comes up every once in a while on this list
>> so the below
>> > article is a textbook example of what I call feeding the pigeons.
>> We all
>> > are the pigeons. One tip off is time and money will be needed to
>> prove> the
>> > process. The other is the question of weather the radio
>> frequency power
>> > input is offset by the power output of the flame of (chuckle)
>> burning salt
>> > water. If you see something like this below turn on your bs
>> detector. No
>> > offense to Remy or the ET list. He is just passing along
>> information from
>> > many sources. He lets you make the decision as to the truth of the
>> > articles. In the past EV list members have ferreted out lies.
>> So keep
>> > your
>> > money in your pocket and make sure devices or other methods of
>> fuel are
>> > proven before investing. Lawrence Rhodes....
>> >
>> > Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so
>> > Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [email protected]
>> > cleannewworld
>> > Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:20 am ((PDT))
>> >
>> > Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so
>> > Sunday, September 09, 2007
>> > By David Templeton, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
>> >
>> > http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07252/815920-85.stm
>> >
>> > For obvious reasons, scientists long have thought that salt water
>> couldn't> be burned.
>> >
>> > So when an Erie man announced he'd ignited salt water with the
>> > radio-frequency generator he'd invented, some thought it a was a
>> hoax.>
>> > John Kanzius, a Washington County native, tried to desalinate
>> seawater> with
>> > a generator he developed to treat cancer, and it caused a flash
>> in the
>> > test
>> > tube.
>> >
>> > Within days, he had the salt water in the test tube burning like
>> a candle,
>> > as long as it was exposed to radio frequencies.
>> >
>> > His discovery has spawned scientific interest in using the
>> world's most
>> > abundant substance as clean fuel, among other uses.
>> >
>> > Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, held a demonstration
>> last> week
>> > at the university's Materials Research Laboratory in State
>> College, to
>> > confirm what he'd witnessed weeks before in an Erie lab.
>> >
>> > "It's true, it works," Dr. Roy said. "Everyone told me, 'Rustum,
>> don't be
>> > fooled. He put electrodes in there.' "
>> >
>> > But there are no electrodes and no gimmicks, he said.
>> >
>> > Dr. Roy said the salt water isn't burning per se, despite
>> appearances. The
>> > radio frequency actually weakens bonds holding together the
>> constituents> of
>> > salt water -- sodium chloride, hydrogen and oxygen -- and
>> releases the
>> > hydrogen, which, once ignited, burns continuously when exposed to
>> the RF
>> > energy field. Mr. Kanzius said an independent source measured the
>> flame's> temperature, which exceeds 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit,
>> reflecting an
>> > enormous
>> > energy output.
>> >
>> > As such, Dr. Roy, a founding member of the Materials Research
>> Laboratory> and
>> > expert in water structure, said Mr. Kanzius' discovery represents
>> "the> most
>> > remarkable in water science in 100 years."
>> >
>> > But researching its potential will take time and money, he said. One
>> > immediate question is energy efficiency: The energy the RF
>> generator uses
>> > vs. the energy output from burning hydrogen.
>> >
>> > Dr. Roy said he's scheduled to meet tomorrow with U.S. Department of
>> > Energy
>> > and Department of Defense officials in Washington to discuss the
>> discovery> and seek research funding.
>> >
>> > Mr. Kanzius said he powered a Stirling, or hot air, engine with salt
>> > water.
>> > But whether the system can power a car or be used as an efficient
>> fuel> will
>> > depend on research results.
>> >
>> > "We will get our ideas together and check this out and see where it
>> > leads,"
>> > Dr. Roy said. "The potential is huge.
>> >
>> > "In the life sciences, the role of water is infinite, and this
>> guy is
>> > doing
>> > something new in using the most important and most abundant
>> material on
>> > the
>> > face of the earth."
>> > Mr. Kanzius' discovery was an accident.
>> >
>> > He developed the RF generator as a novel cancer treatment. His
>> research in
>> > targeting cancer cells with metallic nanoparticles then
>> destroying them
>> > with
>> > radio-frequency is proceeding at the University of Pittsburgh
>> Medical> Center
>> > and at the University of Texas' MD Anderson Cancer Center in
>> Houston.>
>> > Manuscripts updating the cancer research are in preparation for
>> > publication
>> > in coming months, Mr. Kanzius said.
>> >
>> > While Mr. Kanzius was demonstrating how his generator heated
>> > nanoparticles,
>> > someone noted condensation inside the test tube and suggested he
>> try using
>> > his equipment to desalinate water.
>> >
>> > So, Mr. Kanzius said, he put sea water in a test tube, then
>> trained his
>> > machine on it, producing an unexpected spark. In time he and
>> laboratory> owners struck a match and ignited the water, which
>> continued burning as
>> > long
>> > as it remained in the radio-frequency field.
>> >
>> > During several trials, heat from burning hydrogen grew hot enough
>> to melt
>> > the test tube, he said. Dr. Roy's tests on the machine last week
>> provided> further evidence that the process is releasing and
>> burning hydrogen from
>> > the
>> > water. Tests on different water solutions and concentrations
>> produced> various temperatures and flame colors.
>> >
>> > "This is the most abundant element in the world. It is
>> everywhere," Dr.
>> > Roy
>> > said of salt water. "Seeing it burn gives me chills."
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > For subscription options, see
>> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
>> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
>> whatever I
>> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
>> longlegalistic signature is void.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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and the melting poles.

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_______________________________________________
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·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Re: [EVDL] NOT A HOAX!! Re: How to spot a hoax or someone's trying to make money.

News reporters are not rocket scientists, far from it. They've been
duped over and over by impossible claims.

Tilley EV got picked up by the news a few times, YouTube carries a Fox
News story on the Aquygen (HHO) guy who did a few real-world
hydrogen-oxygen welding tricks and then said he could run a car on
water. And let's not forget Steorn had a big ad in The Economist to buy
themselves some apparent legitimacy.

Making a lie into a BIGGER lie does nothing to increase their
credibility. Scientific verification and a real explanation would do
it. I'd believe it if someone proved that fusion were occurring, very
unlikely but not completely impossible. This would be easy enough for a
real lab to verify fairly quickly.

Without fusion, his claims are basically useless unless he can show it
can make H2 with greater efficiency than electrolysis. He makes no
claims in this area.

Danny

----- Original Message -----
From: GWMobile <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, September 14, 2007 12:59 pm
Subject: Re: [EVDL] NOT A HOAX!! Re: How to spot a hoax or someone's
trying to make money.
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]

> This was just on the national news as well.
>
> It is not merely an internet hoax.
>
>
>
[email protected] wrote:
> > The video shows some sort of flame. There is nothing proving
> that the
> > salt water is burning. It would be a trivial matter to add clear
> > chemicals to make it burn.
> >
> > In any case, we can already break water into H2 and O2 with
> > electrolysis
> > with decent efficiency (depends on process used). There's no
> point to
> > using a lot of electricity to make a little flame on site, the
> > electricity could drive motors with many times the effectiveness.
> If
> > it
> > was more efficient than electrolysis and the H2 could be extracted
> > without burning for storage, it would have some uses. Seems
> unlikely,> making RF energy from electricity alone is not an
> extremely high
> > efficiency process.
> >
> > BTW, people have made fun plasmoids in your standard home microwave
> > simply by putting a match in there that was just blown out and still
> > smoldering- the microwave energy turns the smoke into a glowing,
> > animated plasma. Lots of neat net videos. There's other fantastic
> > tricks that can be done with cut grapes and such. Yet despite being
> > flashy, it doesn't constitute a power source.
> >
> > Danny
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]>
> > Date: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:26 pm
> > Subject: [EVDL] NOT A HOAX!! Re: How to spot a hoax or someone's
> trying> to make money.
> > To: Lawrence Rhodes <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle
> > Discussion List <[email protected]>
> >
> >> I seriously doubt they are getting more energy out than they are
> >> puttingin, but the burning "salt water" appears to be FACT not
> >> fiction.
> >> Rustum Roy is actually on the board at Penn State University,
> there>> is a
> >> link on the Penn state website to Dr Roy's website. That website
> >> has a
> >> link to a video showing the Hydrogen burning.
> >>
> >> I'm quite certain that they aren't getting any over unity reaction
> >> here,but they are using radio waves to separate hydrogen from salt
> >> water and
> >> then igniting the hydrogen.
> >>
> >> > Below is what sounds like the answer to our prayers. However it
> >> may be a
> >> > hoax or a lie designed to filtch investors. This kind of
> free or
> >> amazing> energy source comes up every once in a while on this list
> >> so the below
> >> > article is a textbook example of what I call feeding the
> pigeons.>> We all
> >> > are the pigeons. One tip off is time and money will be
> needed to
> >> prove> the
> >> > process. The other is the question of weather the radio
> >> frequency power
> >> > input is offset by the power output of the flame of (chuckle)
> >> burning salt
> >> > water. If you see something like this below turn on your bs
> >> detector. No
> >> > offense to Remy or the ET list. He is just passing along
> >> information from
> >> > many sources. He lets you make the decision as to the truth
> of the
> >> > articles. In the past EV list members have ferreted out lies.
> >> So keep
> >> > your
> >> > money in your pocket and make sure devices or other methods of
> >> fuel are
> >> > proven before investing. Lawrence Rhodes....
> >> >
> >> > Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so
> >> > Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [email protected]
> >> > cleannewworld
> >> > Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:20 am ((PDT))
> >> >
> >> > Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so
> >> > Sunday, September 09, 2007
> >> > By David Templeton, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
> >> >
> >> > http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07252/815920-85.stm
> >> >
> >> > For obvious reasons, scientists long have thought that salt
> water>> couldn't> be burned.
> >> >
> >> > So when an Erie man announced he'd ignited salt water with the
> >> > radio-frequency generator he'd invented, some thought it a
> was a
> >> hoax.>
> >> > John Kanzius, a Washington County native, tried to desalinate
> >> seawater> with
> >> > a generator he developed to treat cancer, and it caused a flash
> >> in the
> >> > test
> >> > tube.
> >> >
> >> > Within days, he had the salt water in the test tube burning like
> >> a candle,
> >> > as long as it was exposed to radio frequencies.
> >> >
> >> > His discovery has spawned scientific interest in using the
> >> world's most
> >> > abundant substance as clean fuel, among other uses.
> >> >
> >> > Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, held a
> demonstration>> last> week
> >> > at the university's Materials Research Laboratory in State
> >> College, to
> >> > confirm what he'd witnessed weeks before in an Erie lab.
> >> >
> >> > "It's true, it works," Dr. Roy said. "Everyone told me, 'Rustum,
> >> don't be
> >> > fooled. He put electrodes in there.' "
> >> >
> >> > But there are no electrodes and no gimmicks, he said.
> >> >
> >> > Dr. Roy said the salt water isn't burning per se, despite
> >> appearances. The
> >> > radio frequency actually weakens bonds holding together the
> >> constituents> of
> >> > salt water -- sodium chloride, hydrogen and oxygen -- and
> >> releases the
> >> > hydrogen, which, once ignited, burns continuously when
> exposed to
> >> the RF
> >> > energy field. Mr. Kanzius said an independent source measured
> the>> flame's> temperature, which exceeds 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit,
> >> reflecting an
> >> > enormous
> >> > energy output.
> >> >
> >> > As such, Dr. Roy, a founding member of the Materials Research
> >> Laboratory> and
> >> > expert in water structure, said Mr. Kanzius' discovery
> represents>> "the> most
> >> > remarkable in water science in 100 years."
> >> >
> >> > But researching its potential will take time and money, he
> said. One
> >> > immediate question is energy efficiency: The energy the RF
> >> generator uses
> >> > vs. the energy output from burning hydrogen.
> >> >
> >> > Dr. Roy said he's scheduled to meet tomorrow with U.S.
> Department of
> >> > Energy
> >> > and Department of Defense officials in Washington to discuss the
> >> discovery> and seek research funding.
> >> >
> >> > Mr. Kanzius said he powered a Stirling, or hot air, engine
> with salt
> >> > water.
> >> > But whether the system can power a car or be used as an
> efficient>> fuel> will
> >> > depend on research results.
> >> >
> >> > "We will get our ideas together and check this out and see
> where it
> >> > leads,"
> >> > Dr. Roy said. "The potential is huge.
> >> >
> >> > "In the life sciences, the role of water is infinite, and this
> >> guy is
> >> > doing
> >> > something new in using the most important and most abundant
> >> material on
> >> > the
> >> > face of the earth."
> >> > Mr. Kanzius' discovery was an accident.
> >> >
> >> > He developed the RF generator as a novel cancer treatment. His
> >> research in
> >> > targeting cancer cells with metallic nanoparticles then
> >> destroying them
> >> > with
> >> > radio-frequency is proceeding at the University of Pittsburgh
> >> Medical> Center
> >> > and at the University of Texas' MD Anderson Cancer Center in
> >> Houston.>
> >> > Manuscripts updating the cancer research are in preparation for
> >> > publication
> >> > in coming months, Mr. Kanzius said.
> >> >
> >> > While Mr. Kanzius was demonstrating how his generator heated
> >> > nanoparticles,
> >> > someone noted condensation inside the test tube and suggested he
> >> try using
> >> > his equipment to desalinate water.
> >> >
> >> > So, Mr. Kanzius said, he put sea water in a test tube, then
> >> trained his
> >> > machine on it, producing an unexpected spark. In time he and
> >> laboratory> owners struck a match and ignited the water, which
> >> continued burning as
> >> > long
> >> > as it remained in the radio-frequency field.
> >> >
> >> > During several trials, heat from burning hydrogen grew hot
> enough>> to melt
> >> > the test tube, he said. Dr. Roy's tests on the machine last week
> >> provided> further evidence that the process is releasing and
> >> burning hydrogen from
> >> > the
> >> > water. Tests on different water solutions and concentrations
> >> produced> various temperatures and flame colors.
> >> >
> >> > "This is the most abundant element in the world. It is
> >> everywhere," Dr.
> >> > Roy
> >> > said of salt water. "Seeing it burn gives me chills."
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of
> legalistic>> junk at the end; then you are specifically
> authorizing me to do
> >> whatever I
> >> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
> >> longlegalistic signature is void.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
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