Re: [EVDL] NOT A HOAX!! Re: How to spot a hoax or someone's trying to make money.
The video shows some sort of flame. There is nothing proving that the
salt water is burning. It would be a trivial matter to add clear
chemicals to make it burn.
In any case, we can already break water into H2 and O2 with electrolysis
with decent efficiency (depends on process used). There's no point to
using a lot of electricity to make a little flame on site, the
electricity could drive motors with many times the effectiveness. If it
was more efficient than electrolysis and the H2 could be extracted
without burning for storage, it would have some uses. Seems unlikely,
making RF energy from electricity alone is not an extremely high
efficiency process.
BTW, people have made fun plasmoids in your standard home microwave
simply by putting a match in there that was just blown out and still
smoldering- the microwave energy turns the smoke into a glowing,
animated plasma. Lots of neat net videos. There's other fantastic
tricks that can be done with cut grapes and such. Yet despite being
flashy, it doesn't constitute a power source.
Danny
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:26 pm
Subject: [EVDL] NOT A HOAX!! Re: How to spot a hoax or someone's trying
to make money.
To: Lawrence Rhodes <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle
Discussion List <[email protected]>
> I seriously doubt they are getting more energy out than they are
> puttingin, but the burning "salt water" appears to be FACT not
> fiction.
> Rustum Roy is actually on the board at Penn State University, there
> is a
> link on the Penn state website to Dr Roy's website. That website
> has a
> link to a video showing the Hydrogen burning.
>
> I'm quite certain that they aren't getting any over unity reaction
> here,but they are using radio waves to separate hydrogen from salt
> water and
> then igniting the hydrogen.
>
> > Below is what sounds like the answer to our prayers. However it
> may be a
> > hoax or a lie designed to filtch investors. This kind of free or
> amazing> energy source comes up every once in a while on this list
> so the below
> > article is a textbook example of what I call feeding the pigeons.
> We all
> > are the pigeons. One tip off is time and money will be needed to
> prove> the
> > process. The other is the question of weather the radio
> frequency power
> > input is offset by the power output of the flame of (chuckle)
> burning salt
> > water. If you see something like this below turn on your bs
> detector. No
> > offense to Remy or the ET list. He is just passing along
> information from
> > many sources. He lets you make the decision as to the truth of the
> > articles. In the past EV list members have ferreted out lies.
> So keep
> > your
> > money in your pocket and make sure devices or other methods of
> fuel are
> > proven before investing. Lawrence Rhodes....
> >
> > Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so
> > Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [email protected]
> > cleannewworld
> > Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:20 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so
> > Sunday, September 09, 2007
> > By David Templeton, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
> >
> > http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07252/815920-85.stm
> >
> > For obvious reasons, scientists long have thought that salt water
> couldn't> be burned.
> >
> > So when an Erie man announced he'd ignited salt water with the
> > radio-frequency generator he'd invented, some thought it a was a
> hoax.>
> > John Kanzius, a Washington County native, tried to desalinate
> seawater> with
> > a generator he developed to treat cancer, and it caused a flash
> in the
> > test
> > tube.
> >
> > Within days, he had the salt water in the test tube burning like
> a candle,
> > as long as it was exposed to radio frequencies.
> >
> > His discovery has spawned scientific interest in using the
> world's most
> > abundant substance as clean fuel, among other uses.
> >
> > Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, held a demonstration
> last> week
> > at the university's Materials Research Laboratory in State
> College, to
> > confirm what he'd witnessed weeks before in an Erie lab.
> >
> > "It's true, it works," Dr. Roy said. "Everyone told me, 'Rustum,
> don't be
> > fooled. He put electrodes in there.' "
> >
> > But there are no electrodes and no gimmicks, he said.
> >
> > Dr. Roy said the salt water isn't burning per se, despite
> appearances. The
> > radio frequency actually weakens bonds holding together the
> constituents> of
> > salt water -- sodium chloride, hydrogen and oxygen -- and
> releases the
> > hydrogen, which, once ignited, burns continuously when exposed to
> the RF
> > energy field. Mr. Kanzius said an independent source measured the
> flame's> temperature, which exceeds 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit,
> reflecting an
> > enormous
> > energy output.
> >
> > As such, Dr. Roy, a founding member of the Materials Research
> Laboratory> and
> > expert in water structure, said Mr. Kanzius' discovery represents
> "the> most
> > remarkable in water science in 100 years."
> >
> > But researching its potential will take time and money, he said. One
> > immediate question is energy efficiency: The energy the RF
> generator uses
> > vs. the energy output from burning hydrogen.
> >
> > Dr. Roy said he's scheduled to meet tomorrow with U.S. Department of
> > Energy
> > and Department of Defense officials in Washington to discuss the
> discovery> and seek research funding.
> >
> > Mr. Kanzius said he powered a Stirling, or hot air, engine with salt
> > water.
> > But whether the system can power a car or be used as an efficient
> fuel> will
> > depend on research results.
> >
> > "We will get our ideas together and check this out and see where it
> > leads,"
> > Dr. Roy said. "The potential is huge.
> >
> > "In the life sciences, the role of water is infinite, and this
> guy is
> > doing
> > something new in using the most important and most abundant
> material on
> > the
> > face of the earth."
> > Mr. Kanzius' discovery was an accident.
> >
> > He developed the RF generator as a novel cancer treatment. His
> research in
> > targeting cancer cells with metallic nanoparticles then
> destroying them
> > with
> > radio-frequency is proceeding at the University of Pittsburgh
> Medical> Center
> > and at the University of Texas' MD Anderson Cancer Center in
> Houston.>
> > Manuscripts updating the cancer research are in preparation for
> > publication
> > in coming months, Mr. Kanzius said.
> >
> > While Mr. Kanzius was demonstrating how his generator heated
> > nanoparticles,
> > someone noted condensation inside the test tube and suggested he
> try using
> > his equipment to desalinate water.
> >
> > So, Mr. Kanzius said, he put sea water in a test tube, then
> trained his
> > machine on it, producing an unexpected spark. In time he and
> laboratory> owners struck a match and ignited the water, which
> continued burning as
> > long
> > as it remained in the radio-frequency field.
> >
> > During several trials, heat from burning hydrogen grew hot enough
> to melt
> > the test tube, he said. Dr. Roy's tests on the machine last week
> provided> further evidence that the process is releasing and
> burning hydrogen from
> > the
> > water. Tests on different water solutions and concentrations
> produced> various temperatures and flame colors.
> >
> > "This is the most abundant element in the world. It is
> everywhere," Dr.
> > Roy
> > said of salt water. "Seeing it burn gives me chills."
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
> longlegalistic signature is void.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
The video shows some sort of flame. There is nothing proving that the
salt water is burning. It would be a trivial matter to add clear
chemicals to make it burn.
In any case, we can already break water into H2 and O2 with electrolysis
with decent efficiency (depends on process used). There's no point to
using a lot of electricity to make a little flame on site, the
electricity could drive motors with many times the effectiveness. If it
was more efficient than electrolysis and the H2 could be extracted
without burning for storage, it would have some uses. Seems unlikely,
making RF energy from electricity alone is not an extremely high
efficiency process.
BTW, people have made fun plasmoids in your standard home microwave
simply by putting a match in there that was just blown out and still
smoldering- the microwave energy turns the smoke into a glowing,
animated plasma. Lots of neat net videos. There's other fantastic
tricks that can be done with cut grapes and such. Yet despite being
flashy, it doesn't constitute a power source.
Danny
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter VanDerWal <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:26 pm
Subject: [EVDL] NOT A HOAX!! Re: How to spot a hoax or someone's trying
to make money.
To: Lawrence Rhodes <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle
Discussion List <[email protected]>
> I seriously doubt they are getting more energy out than they are
> puttingin, but the burning "salt water" appears to be FACT not
> fiction.
> Rustum Roy is actually on the board at Penn State University, there
> is a
> link on the Penn state website to Dr Roy's website. That website
> has a
> link to a video showing the Hydrogen burning.
>
> I'm quite certain that they aren't getting any over unity reaction
> here,but they are using radio waves to separate hydrogen from salt
> water and
> then igniting the hydrogen.
>
> > Below is what sounds like the answer to our prayers. However it
> may be a
> > hoax or a lie designed to filtch investors. This kind of free or
> amazing> energy source comes up every once in a while on this list
> so the below
> > article is a textbook example of what I call feeding the pigeons.
> We all
> > are the pigeons. One tip off is time and money will be needed to
> prove> the
> > process. The other is the question of weather the radio
> frequency power
> > input is offset by the power output of the flame of (chuckle)
> burning salt
> > water. If you see something like this below turn on your bs
> detector. No
> > offense to Remy or the ET list. He is just passing along
> information from
> > many sources. He lets you make the decision as to the truth of the
> > articles. In the past EV list members have ferreted out lies.
> So keep
> > your
> > money in your pocket and make sure devices or other methods of
> fuel are
> > proven before investing. Lawrence Rhodes....
> >
> > Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so
> > Posted by: "Remy Chevalier" [email protected]
> > cleannewworld
> > Date: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:20 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Salt water as fuel? Erie man hopes so
> > Sunday, September 09, 2007
> > By David Templeton, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
> >
> > http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07252/815920-85.stm
> >
> > For obvious reasons, scientists long have thought that salt water
> couldn't> be burned.
> >
> > So when an Erie man announced he'd ignited salt water with the
> > radio-frequency generator he'd invented, some thought it a was a
> hoax.>
> > John Kanzius, a Washington County native, tried to desalinate
> seawater> with
> > a generator he developed to treat cancer, and it caused a flash
> in the
> > test
> > tube.
> >
> > Within days, he had the salt water in the test tube burning like
> a candle,
> > as long as it was exposed to radio frequencies.
> >
> > His discovery has spawned scientific interest in using the
> world's most
> > abundant substance as clean fuel, among other uses.
> >
> > Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, held a demonstration
> last> week
> > at the university's Materials Research Laboratory in State
> College, to
> > confirm what he'd witnessed weeks before in an Erie lab.
> >
> > "It's true, it works," Dr. Roy said. "Everyone told me, 'Rustum,
> don't be
> > fooled. He put electrodes in there.' "
> >
> > But there are no electrodes and no gimmicks, he said.
> >
> > Dr. Roy said the salt water isn't burning per se, despite
> appearances. The
> > radio frequency actually weakens bonds holding together the
> constituents> of
> > salt water -- sodium chloride, hydrogen and oxygen -- and
> releases the
> > hydrogen, which, once ignited, burns continuously when exposed to
> the RF
> > energy field. Mr. Kanzius said an independent source measured the
> flame's> temperature, which exceeds 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit,
> reflecting an
> > enormous
> > energy output.
> >
> > As such, Dr. Roy, a founding member of the Materials Research
> Laboratory> and
> > expert in water structure, said Mr. Kanzius' discovery represents
> "the> most
> > remarkable in water science in 100 years."
> >
> > But researching its potential will take time and money, he said. One
> > immediate question is energy efficiency: The energy the RF
> generator uses
> > vs. the energy output from burning hydrogen.
> >
> > Dr. Roy said he's scheduled to meet tomorrow with U.S. Department of
> > Energy
> > and Department of Defense officials in Washington to discuss the
> discovery> and seek research funding.
> >
> > Mr. Kanzius said he powered a Stirling, or hot air, engine with salt
> > water.
> > But whether the system can power a car or be used as an efficient
> fuel> will
> > depend on research results.
> >
> > "We will get our ideas together and check this out and see where it
> > leads,"
> > Dr. Roy said. "The potential is huge.
> >
> > "In the life sciences, the role of water is infinite, and this
> guy is
> > doing
> > something new in using the most important and most abundant
> material on
> > the
> > face of the earth."
> > Mr. Kanzius' discovery was an accident.
> >
> > He developed the RF generator as a novel cancer treatment. His
> research in
> > targeting cancer cells with metallic nanoparticles then
> destroying them
> > with
> > radio-frequency is proceeding at the University of Pittsburgh
> Medical> Center
> > and at the University of Texas' MD Anderson Cancer Center in
> Houston.>
> > Manuscripts updating the cancer research are in preparation for
> > publication
> > in coming months, Mr. Kanzius said.
> >
> > While Mr. Kanzius was demonstrating how his generator heated
> > nanoparticles,
> > someone noted condensation inside the test tube and suggested he
> try using
> > his equipment to desalinate water.
> >
> > So, Mr. Kanzius said, he put sea water in a test tube, then
> trained his
> > machine on it, producing an unexpected spark. In time he and
> laboratory> owners struck a match and ignited the water, which
> continued burning as
> > long
> > as it remained in the radio-frequency field.
> >
> > During several trials, heat from burning hydrogen grew hot enough
> to melt
> > the test tube, he said. Dr. Roy's tests on the machine last week
> provided> further evidence that the process is releasing and
> burning hydrogen from
> > the
> > water. Tests on different water solutions and concentrations
> produced> various temperatures and flame colors.
> >
> > "This is the most abundant element in the world. It is
> everywhere," Dr.
> > Roy
> > said of salt water. "Seeing it burn gives me chills."
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
>
>
> --
> If you send email to me, or the EVDL, that has > 4 lines of legalistic
> junk at the end; then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I
> wish with the message. By posting the message you agree that your
> longlegalistic signature is void.
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
