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Discussion Starter #1
Re: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated forDarwin Award.)

During a burnout, by definition, the rider is holding the brake, and the
bike shouldn't gain enough traction to fully load the motor. But you have a
point if the rider loses his grip on the brake lever. Arguably if he did,
he'd lose his grip on the throttle also,and the bike would shut down anyway.

I like Jeff's idea, a crewmember holding down a button on the end of a wire.
That way the crew member could keep the wire out of the mechanicals, and
shut down for emergencies besides a launch (like seeing a bystander
wandering into the danger zone). Another pair of eyes would be good.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hunter Cook" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated forDarwin
Award.)


>I agree, a completely automatic system can clearly react faster than a
> human-controlled killswitch. However, "high motor current plus brake
> lights" is not automatic; the rider still has to be hitting the brakes.
> I kind of like the jetski-esque deadman switch, attached to some fixed
> object (lamppost?) for burnouts and to the rider otherwise.
>
>
Marty Hewes wrote:
>> I think the distinction is, no human operated kill system could have
>> operated fast enough given the circumstances. I think you did as well as
>> possible. But I think a totally automatic system triggered by a
>> combination
>> of inputs that should never coincide could have shut down power faster
>> than
>> any human can react, within milliseconds.
>>
>> High motor current plus brake lights has got to mean trouble.
>>
>> Are the forks and wheel off the shelf items?
>>
>> Marty
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bill Dube" <[email protected]>
>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 1:31 PM
>> Subject: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated for Darwin
>> Award.)
>>
>>
>> >I did manage to shut it down in about a second, but it goes quite a
>> > distance in a second.
>> >
>> > It was not difficult to shut down, but it takes a finite amount of
>> > time for a human to react. No matter what you choose as a shut-down,
>> > the driver must react in _some_ way first. This takes about 3/4
>> > second. Simply deciding to operate the brakes takes about 3/4 of a
>> > second. No disconnect system would have worked faster than what
>> > actually occurred.
>> >
>> > I _almost_ got it stopped. I needed about another 10 to 20 ft. That
>> > is where I personally stopped, you will notice. Had the bike been
>> > moving very fast, I would have gone a long way before I stopped. I
>> > came to rest about ten feet beyond the car. This is where the bike
>> > would have stopped. (Actually before that point.)
>> >
>> > The front forks are bent. The front wheel is bent. The pack has a
>> > dent from the wheel. The front cowling is cracked. Everything else is
>> > just fine. The front forks and wheel are very lightweight aluminum,
>> > so they crumpled right up with this very minor impact.
>> >
>> > Bill D.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > For subscription options, see
>> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> For subscription options, see
>> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>


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Discussion Starter #2
Re: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated forDarwin Award.)

Marty Hewes wrote:
> During a burnout, by definition, the rider is holding the brake,

Well...one of them. Earlier someone postulated the sensor being "both
brakes and high current" ...or at least that's what I thought I read.
But if this killswitch would only be used during burnouts and was just
on the front brake, then ok, I'm with you.

> and the
> bike shouldn't gain enough traction to fully load the motor. But you have a
> point if the rider loses his grip on the brake lever. Arguably if he did,
> he'd lose his grip on the throttle also,and the bike would shut down anyway.
> I like Jeff's idea, a crewmember holding down a button on the end of a wire.
> That way the crew member could keep the wire out of the mechanicals, and
> shut down for emergencies besides a launch (like seeing a bystander
> wandering into the danger zone). Another pair of eyes would be good.

The crew member could just as easily hold onto a jetski-style pullcord
dealy, right? Or is that basically what you mean? I agree that a
nonrider being capable of killing the bike is a good idea! Perhaps even
an RF transmitter, so that a crew member could kill it during runs
too...

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hunter Cook" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated forDarwin
> Award.)
>
>
> >I agree, a completely automatic system can clearly react faster than a
> > human-controlled killswitch. However, "high motor current plus brake
> > lights" is not automatic; the rider still has to be hitting the brakes.
> > I kind of like the jetski-esque deadman switch, attached to some fixed
> > object (lamppost?) for burnouts and to the rider otherwise.
> >
> > On Sat, 2007-09-15 at 13:58 -0500, Marty Hewes wrote:
> >> I think the distinction is, no human operated kill system could have
> >> operated fast enough given the circumstances. I think you did as well as
> >> possible. But I think a totally automatic system triggered by a
> >> combination
> >> of inputs that should never coincide could have shut down power faster
> >> than
> >> any human can react, within milliseconds.
> >>
> >> High motor current plus brake lights has got to mean trouble.
> >>
> >> Are the forks and wheel off the shelf items?
> >>
> >> Marty
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Bill Dube" <[email protected]>
> >> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 1:31 PM
> >> Subject: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated for Darwin
> >> Award.)
> >>
> >>
> >> >I did manage to shut it down in about a second, but it goes quite a
> >> > distance in a second.
> >> >
> >> > It was not difficult to shut down, but it takes a finite amount of
> >> > time for a human to react. No matter what you choose as a shut-down,
> >> > the driver must react in _some_ way first. This takes about 3/4
> >> > second. Simply deciding to operate the brakes takes about 3/4 of a
> >> > second. No disconnect system would have worked faster than what
> >> > actually occurred.
> >> >
> >> > I _almost_ got it stopped. I needed about another 10 to 20 ft. That
> >> > is where I personally stopped, you will notice. Had the bike been
> >> > moving very fast, I would have gone a long way before I stopped. I
> >> > came to rest about ten feet beyond the car. This is where the bike
> >> > would have stopped. (Actually before that point.)
> >> >
> >> > The front forks are bent. The front wheel is bent. The pack has a
> >> > dent from the wheel. The front cowling is cracked. Everything else is
> >> > just fine. The front forks and wheel are very lightweight aluminum,
> >> > so they crumpled right up with this very minor impact.
> >> >
> >> > Bill D.
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > For subscription options, see
> >> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> For subscription options, see
> >> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > For subscription options, see
> > http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated forDarwin Award.)

Don't Monster Trucks and Tracotr pull vehicles have something like this?

David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)

---- Hunter Cook <[email protected]> wrote:
Marty Hewes wrote:
> During a burnout, by definition, the rider is holding the brake,

Well...one of them. Earlier someone postulated the sensor being "both
brakes and high current" ...or at least that's what I thought I read.
But if this killswitch would only be used during burnouts and was just
on the front brake, then ok, I'm with you.

The crew member could just as easily hold onto a jetski-style pullcord
dealy, right? Or is that basically what you mean? I agree that a
nonrider being capable of killing the bike is a good idea! Perhaps even
an RF transmitter, so that a crew member could kill it during runs
too...


_______________________________________________
For subscription options, see
http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
 

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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Re: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated forDarwin Award.)

Apparently not universally. A monster truck doing an exhibition running
over a car or something in the street in front of a car parts store parking
lot got loose and injured nine people a few weeks back in DeKalb IL.

http://www.topix.net/content/cbs/2007/08/monster-truck-crashes-into-crowd-in-illinois-6

I think the truck and tractor pullers use a kill cable connected to the sled
so that if the hitch brakes and the vehicle gets loose the motor kills.


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Wilker" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Reaction time (was: Bill Dube nominated forDarwin
Award.)


> Don't Monster Trucks and Tracotr pull vehicles have something like this?
>
> David C. Wilker Jr.
> USAF (RET)
>
> ---- Hunter Cook <[email protected]> wrote:
>
Marty Hewes wrote:
>> During a burnout, by definition, the rider is holding the brake,
>
> Well...one of them. Earlier someone postulated the sensor being "both
> brakes and high current" ...or at least that's what I thought I read.
> But if this killswitch would only be used during burnouts and was just
> on the front brake, then ok, I'm with you.
>
> The crew member could just as easily hold onto a jetski-style pullcord
> dealy, right? Or is that basically what you mean? I agree that a
> nonrider being capable of killing the bike is a good idea! Perhaps even
> an RF transmitter, so that a crew member could kill it during runs
> too...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>


_______________________________________________
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