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Discussion Starter #3
Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive throughs

> Do you ride?

Quite a bit and filtering (lane splitting) is legal in the UK.

> Awful nice to know that the person you're passing can tell you're
> there. Otherwise they're likely to miss your smaller than usual self
> and attempt to move into your lane, possibly without signaling and
> possibly quickly! This is one reason motorcycles are frequently
> noisy...

That's total bollocks!

Motorcycles are loud because people want them to be, often to the point of
stupidity.

My own favourite bike is quite loud (due to the 'Riservato Competizione'
exhaust) and recorded 100dB @ 0.5m in the noise test at a recent rack day
(105dB limit). It's not a noise people seem to object to however and if I'm
coming home late at night I can keep it fairly quiet by judicious use of the
throttle.

Even if 'Loud Pipes Save Lives' it would only work if they faced forwards.
Even when I'm riding one of the quiet bikes, I often can't hear things
coming up from behind.

Blind people who claim EVs and Hybrids are dangerous are more likely to be
run down by a high end BMW or Merc, they're almost as quiet.

'Loud Pipes Cost Rights!'

Paul Compton
www.evguru.co.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.bvs.org.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
www.compton.vispa.com/the_named

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Discussion Starter #4
Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive throughs

Marty Hewes wrote:
> I suppose a strobe doesn't help the blind, but equally, noise wouldn't
> help the deaf. Maybe we ought to at least drive with the headlights on,
> as required of motorcycles, and make some sound.

<g> Simple enough... drop a couple rocks inside your wheel covers. (At
least that makes considerable noise on the classic Mustangs.)

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive throughs

I've had people walk out in front of my pickup in parking lots, and it is
NOT quiet. People don't pay attention to things around them. Half the
time, they're on their cell phone and the other half they're just
daydreaming. I don't believe adding noise to any quiet vehicle would help.

Dave


>From: "George Swartz" <[email protected]>
>Reply-To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive throughs
>Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 10:21:11 -0700
>
>David, I have seen people walk in front of EV's in parking lots because
>the
>cars are so quiet. So, there is an actual problem.
>
>
> On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:09:59 -0400, David Roden wrote
> > On 4 Oct 2007 at 12:27, [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > > National Federation for the Blind [is] pushing for
> > > minimum noise standards for cars
> >
> > Nuts. Noise is pollution. That's like advocating minimum CO and HC
> > emissions for ICEs, IMO.
> >
> > Maybe we should start a group to lobby for MAXIMUM noise standards
> > for cars. Define them so that only EVs can meet them.
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EVDL Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Note: mail sent to "evpost" or "etpost" addresses will not
> > reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my
> > email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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Discussion Starter #7
Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive throughs

I agree with every word, Paul. And yes, I ride.

Lon Hull,
Portland, OR


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Compton" <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive throughs


>> Do you ride?
>
> Quite a bit and filtering (lane splitting) is legal in the UK.
>
>> Awful nice to know that the person you're passing can tell you're
>> there. Otherwise they're likely to miss your smaller than usual self
>> and attempt to move into your lane, possibly without signaling and
>> possibly quickly! This is one reason motorcycles are frequently
>> noisy...
>
> That's total bollocks!
>
> Motorcycles are loud because people want them to be, often to the point of
> stupidity.
>
> My own favourite bike is quite loud (due to the 'Riservato Competizione'
> exhaust) and recorded 100dB @ 0.5m in the noise test at a recent rack day
> (105dB limit). It's not a noise people seem to object to however and if
> I'm
> coming home late at night I can keep it fairly quiet by judicious use of
> the
> throttle.
>
> Even if 'Loud Pipes Save Lives' it would only work if they faced forwards.
> Even when I'm riding one of the quiet bikes, I often can't hear things
> coming up from behind.
>
> Blind people who claim EVs and Hybrids are dangerous are more likely to be
> run down by a high end BMW or Merc, they're almost as quiet.
>
> 'Loud Pipes Cost Rights!'
>
> Paul Compton
> www.evguru.co.uk
> www.sciroccoev.co.uk
> www.bvs.org.uk
> www.morini-mania.co.uk
> www.compton.vispa.com/the_named
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive throughs

Just caught this thread.

The National Federation for the Blind actually contacted us, EVA/DC
through our website, about this issue about a year ago. They were
holding a conference on quiet cars in Baltimore and wanted some ideas.

I responded back by saying maybe some rocks in the hubcaps would
work. They actually thought that was funny.

But I had some other (more serious) ideas and mentioned that
legislating noisemakers would probably be an issue with the auto
manufacturers and also mentioned that many new ICE cars are pretty
silent already. I emphasized, however, that alot of us like EVs and
Hybrid because they ARE QUIET and legislating noise makers would not
appeal to many of us that owned the vehicles.

Anyway, my suggestions (besides rocks in the hubcaps) were:

1) Have the automakers add (another) decal on the car's visor and a
warning in the car's manual that blind people may not hear the
vehicle and that the driver should be aware of blind pedestrians at
crosswalks and busy intersections. I emphasized driver training as an
affordable solution.

2) The Department of Transportation may consider adding rumble strips
before intersections with heavy pedestrian traffic so that as the
car's tires go over the rumble strip it would produce an audible
noise that a blind person would hear. This also has the benefit of
shedding water away from the intersection and provides safer traction
although I'm not sure about tire wear. I said since many cars are
becoming quieter this will take care of all cars and light trucks.
Rumble strips are pretty easy to cut into the roadway, although there
would be an expense ultimately paid by the public.

3) A technology should be developed that the "quiet car" would
produce a frequency that a specially equipped walking stick would
notice and produce an audible warning to the blind person as the
vehicle approached. If the blind person is using a walking dog then
the end of the leash would have the receiving device. Or an adjacent
pole at the intersection.

That last one is a bit out there. But those were some suggestions I
had. I tried to avoid any suggestions requiring cars have some sort
of noise maker.



Chip Gribben

EVA/DC
http://www.evadc.org
NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com







[email protected] wrote:

> Message: 27
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:54:36 -0400
> From: "Gilbert, Brian D (GE Infra, Energy)" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive
> throughs
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Message-ID:
> <[email protected]m>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> I gotta say I agree with David here. I think any arguments that
> have to
> do with the blind requiring car noise in order to safely get around
> are
> groundless. If you are driving a car, you need to be alert to what's
> around you. If you are a pedestrian, you need to do things where the
> driver can see you (not stepping out from between cars for instance).
> If a blind person with no guide dog or sighted companion needs to
> cross
> the street, they stand at the side for a few moments with their cane
> visible, then they cross the street. Having cars make a minimum
> amount
> of noise isn't going to help them unless the minimum noise is pretty
> close to the maximum noise from a Harley or diesel truck.
>
> I don't mean to seem heartless. I have one friend who is blind,
> and she
> would like EVERYTHING to be quieter so she can concentrate better. To
> her, walking through a noisy city is like me walking through downtown
> Las Vegas with all the neons flashing twice as bright. She doesn't
> walk
> through parking lots by herself because there are no boundaries to
> keep
> herself in a straight line. She does pretty good on sidewalks where
> there is an edge she can detect.
>
> If anyone can give me an example where the blind require a car to make
> noise, I would welcome it. But since the blind (with a white cane)
> have
> right-of-way everywhere I can think of, I think it's going to be
> hard to
> come up with one.
>
> Regards,
> Brian

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive throughs

LOL Just about as obnoxious as the Harley's too!

No I don't ride a murdercycle! There are better ways to die!

And to keep it relevant, I don't want noisier EV's, either!!!

Joseph H. Strubhar

Web: www.gremcoinc.com

E-mail: [email protected]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive throughs


>
Marty Hewes wrote:
>> I suppose a strobe doesn't help the blind, but equally, noise wouldn't
>> help the deaf. Maybe we ought to at least drive with the headlights on,
>> as required of motorcycles, and make some sound.
>
> <g> Simple enough... drop a couple rocks inside your wheel covers. (At
> least that makes considerable noise on the classic Mustangs.)
>
> _______________________________________________
> For subscription options, see
> http://lists.sjsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/ev
>
>
>
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Discussion Starter #11
Re: [EVDL] Silent vehicles, was Re: Sensors at drive throughs

> I always drive with the headlights on, in my EVs. Not to avoid
> running people or animals over (I've never had a problem with that,
> touch wood) - but for general visibility in traffic.

Same thing I do in my ICE car. I'll do it in the EV as well once I've
got a pack that'll let me press the not-gas without dimming them. Isn't
the whole world going over to daytime running lights for just this
reason? It's been years since you could buy a motorcycle that didn't
turn the headlight on automatically with the key...

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